What to do in this situation?

[Oakey]

Ok, so below is an example of a recent situation (it's not accurate but I'm sure you can understand the situation) *cough*mock driving test *cough*



So you're at the junction (iirc no one has priority, it's a staggered junction, there's traffic lights, didn't bother to draw them ) and you're waiting to turn right. There's a car opposite also waiting to turn right. You're both waiting for the traffic in the left lane to clear so that you can make your turn. So you wait and the traffic in the left lane in the opposite direction clears and you proceed with your turn. Is this the correct thing to do?

Because apparently on the mock test I failed solely because I made the turn. According to the instructor the woman in the car opposite was about to make her right turn but then hesitated and stopped because I moved and instead I should have waited for her to turn first. This caused her an 'inconvenience' and this results in failure.

Everything else on the test was fine, but I would have failed because of this one 'driver error'. I'm a little confused, as is everyone else I've spoke to. What exactly was wrong here? If the right turns had involved having to cross each others path, I may understand the argument. But they didn't and I don't see why I was should have waited for her to move first.

Opinions.

[TeePee]

Well, unless there are arrows on the road, you should be turning around her, drivers side to drovers side... gives much better visibility...

[Oakey]

Made the pic a little more clearer now. As for drivers side to drivers side (nearside to nearside?), that isn't really encouraged or put in practise as it's a far more dangerous method. If you're on the left side of the other car, all it takes is some pratt coming from your lane to go to the right side of the car in the opposite lane and you'll end up hitting the pratt (actually saw this just the other day except they just avoided a smash)

[nichomach]

I don't see how you did anything wrong; nothing you did should have caused her to change speed or direction or caused her to hestitate in her own manoeuvre. Presumably, since her position exactly mirrored yours (according to your drawing), she should also have waited for you to complete your turn to avoid inconveniencing you. You'd probably both still be there...waiting...waiting...

[Tumble]

nevertheless... going round the back of the opposing car is how it's laid down in the Highway Code... it's just quicker to nip in front, plus lots of people don't venture far enough out on junctions anyway, so it's just easier to go in front of them.

[dkmech]

I have to say that to me the "go in front" makes more sense - try threading cars between each other if theres 5 on each side trying to turn right - you'll be there all day. I see the point about visibility, but the complications that going driver side to driver side cause are far too large i reckon.

[Oakey]

I don't see how you did anything wrong; nothing you did should have caused her to change speed or direction or caused her to hestitate in her own manoeuvre. Presumably, since her position exactly mirrored yours (according to your drawing), she should also have waited for you to complete your turn to avoid inconveniencing you. You'd probably both still be there...waiting...waiting...

Exactly!!!

Danny says:
but apparently I should have waited her to turn first... doesn't make sense... and what if she was waiting for me to turn first? stalemate?
Ben says:
yeah
Ben says:
that's not right

nevertheless... going round the back of the opposing car is how it's laid down in the Highway Code... it's just quicker to nip in front, plus lots of people don't venture far enough out on junctions anyway, so it's just easier to go in front of them.

Maybe so, but my instructor has always said not to do it like that as it's far more dangerous and in my 6 months of driving have only ever seen it performed once. Also, the instructor I did the mock test with had no problems with me turning like that. His exact words were "Everything was fine, you held back, you waited for the traffic in the opposite left lane to clear, which was great, and then when it was clear you went... and you should have let the other car make her turn first".

[Michael]

I see nothing wrong with that. If the woman started to turn first then fine let her go. But maybe she only stopped because you advanced a bit too soon?

I would have just pressed go-go-gadget stilts, and allowed her to pass under you, as you are suspended in mid air by six foot poles.

[Oakey]

Can I also point out the junction wasn't a large road, there wouldn't be enough space to do the driver side to driver side method, not without holding up all the traffic as well as a lot of messing about to get in the position.

And visibility was perfectly fine, I could see right up the street as to what was coming towards me and I'm sure the other woman turning could see ahead of her just fine too.

[Rave]

I can't see what the instructor's on about TBH. If the woman wants to pause that's up to her, it's nothing to do with you unless you were actually driving straight at her for some reason?

I actually failed my first driving test because I waited at the lights for the right turn arrow to go green rather than just going when there was a gap.

Rich :¬)

[nichomach]

I got failed for not overtaking a bus once - "undue hesitation". The fact that I knew we were on a single lane road with cars parked on both sides where the 30 limit was regarded as a joke or at best a guideline and there was a relatively constant (if spaced out) stream of traffic in the opposite direction was apparently neither here nor there...

[Oakey]

I can't see what the instructor's on about TBH. If the woman wants to pause that's up to her, it's nothing to do with you unless you were actually driving straight at her for some reason?

I actually failed my first driving test because I waited at the lights for the right turn arrow to go green rather than just going when there was a gap.

Rich :¬)

Nope... the traffic going ahead was quite busy so we both creeped out into that position. At no time at all we're we ever heading towards each other or was there any risk of us hitting each other. We were at a standstill in that position for a few minutes until it was clear to turn right. In the diagram the cars are a lot closer than they actually were, there was a fairly large gap between the two of us.

I am totally confused as to what the problem was here and when he mentioned it I had to double check, asking if the car was going straight ahead. When he said it was the car on the opposite side turning right I was just baffled. So she went to turn and then didn't because I moved first? Why is that a problem to me?

This is what annoys me about the whole driving test. The examiner can fail you for whatever reason they see fit, regardless of whether it actually makes sense or not. And now you're £60-£80 out of pocket, plus having to pay to do it again.

If this had been the real test and I'd been failed for this I'd be furious, probably putting the stupid examiners head through the windscreen

[nichomach]

The word you are looking for is "quota"...

[Rave]

I got failed for not overtaking a bus once - "undue hesitation". The fact that I knew we were on a single lane road with cars parked on both sides where the 30 limit was regarded as a joke or at best a guideline and there was a relatively constant (if spaced out) stream of traffic in the opposite direction was apparently neither here nor there...

Bad luck. In my second test (which I passed) I got two minors for excessive speed (or whatever the check box is called), and that was from an examiner who apparently likes people to press on!

Rich :¬)

[Nox]

the highway code says you should go round the back of the other driver, so you should, and yes i know in pratice it never happens...

The only thing i can think of, is by moving, you are obscuring her vision more, becasue she can only look through your windows to see oncoming traffic? (get a van!) she probably would have to hesitate, and double check, but the same would apply to her waiting for you to maneuver. You are both equally wrongly situated, and both half way through the turns you can't completed and both taking up twice the width of road you need to.

Not that any of the above is actually a problem in reality, everyone, well 99% of road users would position themselves like that, and would think it rarely causes a problem. I would probably clarify with the instructor about positioning yourself properly though, and maybe state in that theoretical situation, wait for her to get out the way and position yourself correctly for the right turn, not blocking the oncoming traffic whilst you do it.

been a long time since i took my test though

Nox

[Oakey]

the highway code says you should go round the back of the other driver, so you should, and yes i know in pratice it never happens...

The only thing i can think of, is by moving, you are obscuring her vision more, becasue she can only look through your windows to see oncoming traffic? (get a van!) she probably would have to hesitate, and double check, but the same would apply to her waiting for you to maneuver. You are both equally wrongly situated, and both half way through the turns you can't completed and both taking up twice the width of road you need to.

Not that any of the above is actually a problem in reality, everyone, well 99% of road users would position themselves like that, and would think it rarely causes a problem. I would probably clarify with the instructor about positioning yourself properly though, and maybe state in that theoretical situation, wait for her to get out the way and position yourself correctly for the right turn, not blocking the oncoming traffic whilst you do it.

been a long time since i took my test though

Nox

That's not actually correct at all, both methods are acceptable;

http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/16.shtml

When turning at a cross roads where an oncoming vehicle is also turning right, there is a choice of two methods
turn right side to right side; keep the other vehicle on your right and turn behind it. This is generally the safest method as you have a clear view of any approaching traffic when completing your turn
left side to left side, turning in front of each other. This can block your view of oncoming vehicles, so take extra care

However, my moving couldn't have restricted her vision more, it would have allowed her to see more as I'm going forward, the back end of my car is moving away from the front end of hers.