Peugeot raided by French emissions investigators

[directhex]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36106783

Keep an eye on BMW and Daimler-Benz to be next.

[Saracen]

Presumably, the French authorities had some evidential basis to justify, first, a raid, and second, the choice of target.

As understand it, UK and German testing have so far shown no evidence of the fitting of "defeat" devices of the type VW allegedly used, on any other tested makes. That's one issue, the overly fraudulent nature of doing that. But Peugot appear to have denied something a bit different ...

PSA Group confirms compliance of its vehicles in pollutant emissions in all countries where it operates", it said in a statement

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Surely, whether vehicles are complying or not is a different, if overlapping, issue from whether test results are "nobbled". If nothing else, who seriously believed that "real world" mileage claims EVER match brochure figures. I've been buying cars for 40+ years and not yet managed it. But, a bit like APR figures for loans, the point is the cost of the loan but a method of company offerings from different lenders.

Suppose Saracen Motors releases our newest model showing emissions of 10, using the mandated test cycle. The legal limit is 500. So I'm way, way under. Great, isn't it?

My competitors figures are between 50 and 100, so we're both legal, but I gain a competitive advantage by being "greener". However, I have a "defeat" program installed in the ECU that plays with engine settings when it detects a test run. Without that running, on a test cycle I score 450.

Well, it's still legal but I'm WAY worse than my competitors that were honest and not using a defeat prog. Moreover, as real-world figures are always worse than test runs, due to real-world conditions generally applying a greater loading, I have a far smaller margin between test run and legal limit and my cars might be pumping illegal emissions into the atmosphere, thus doing the very thing my environmentally conscious customers were trying to avoid by buying my cars.

So, two issues :-

1) Have emissions levels been exceeded?
2) Have customers been defrauded?

I would certainly say there's no doubt emissions laws have been broken by fitting defeat devices, and 2) certainly appears self-evident in the VW case.

But quite why are Peugot being raided? Suspicion of breaking emissions levels, or of fraudlently cheating emissions testing, such as (though not limited to) defeat programs? Or both?

[kalniel]

I would certainly say there's no doubt emissions laws have been broken by fitting defeat devices

I haven't been fully up to date with this story recently, but from the last thing I remember, VW kind of said that the devices weren't illegal in the UK (or weren't illegally used..) Ie while it might have been ethically wrong, no laws were broken and the cars were compliant with the tests at the time. Meanwhile poor mitsubishi lose 15% share value by overinflating tyres - surely we all knew this was the least of the tricks manufacturers (and indeed any hypermiler) would do to eek out a few more mpg?

[directhex]

Presumably, the French authorities had some evidential basis to justify, first, a raid, and second, the choice of target.

Perhaps. But I strongly suspect a sudden interest in being seen to be Doing Something comes directly from the VW scandal

[DanceswithUnix]

Meanwhile poor mitsubishi lose 15% share value by overinflating tyres - surely we all knew this was the least of the tricks manufacturers (and indeed any hypermiler) would do to eek out a few more mpg?

From the article I read, the testing dyno has simulated wind resistance as an option and that should have been switched on. So they were testing effectively with one heck of a tailwind as well as overinflated tyres.

A bit worse, but not exactly public enemy number one and the kind of thing I can imagine someone doing out of ignorance rather than malice.

[Spreadie]

The real story will be the manufacturer who hasn't fiddled the figures.

[Zak33]

From the article I read, the testing dyno has simulated wind resistance as an option and that should have been switched on. So they were testing effectively with one heck of a tailwind as well as overinflated tyres.

A bit worse, but not exactly public enemy number one and the kind of thing I can imagine someone doing out of ignorance rather than malice.

you think?

wait... see what occurs and what is ..upended from this.