The AA damaged my car, deny responsibility and now wont pay for repair.

[jimborae]

So my BMW 335i broke down (water pump died, common issue on the N54 engine) and the vehicle had to be recovered. Unfortunately I couldn't be present when it was recovered or delivered home, i had to get to a friends house. Anyway the car was recovered the next morning and delivered to my home address where my partner took delivery of it. She knows nothing about cars and was told to sign for delivery of the vehicle on an electronic pad of the type the post office use. The vehicle was recovered by a 3rd party on AA's behalf. When I eventually got home I inspected the car and found that the left and right splitters on the front bumper had been damaged where it had been loaded on & off the flat bed.

Long story short I got a quote and it's going to cost nearly £400 to repair, I sent the quote to the AA and they have replied that they wont cover the cost as my partner had signed a form agreeing that there was pre-existing damage and sent me an electronic copy of this. Speaking to my wife she denies signing any form or being informed that there was pre-existing damage and that there was no room on the electronic pad (which she did sign) to see any text about damage being recorded or ticking a box agreeing the damage.

So any thoughts on where I stand and word of warning to you all to not sign anything till YOU have checked the car thoroughly.

[g8ina]

Get them to show you the signature or they are screwed (IANAL taking precedent of course)

[jimborae]

Get them to show you the signature or they are screwed (IANAL taking precedent of course)

They've got her signature transposed on to this electronic form. I've asked for an original/paper copy of the form with her signature which they wont be able to supply as she signed the tablet thingy.

[OilSheikh]

Even if she has signed on a tablet, surely that signature is saved in a Database somewhere ?

[jimborae]

Even if she has signed on a tablet, surely that signature is saved in a Database somewhere ?

Sure but my point is she couldn't have signed in full knowledge of what she was signing as there wasn't enough room on the display to show even a fraction of the the so called damage report. She was just told to signed for the receipt of the vehicle. He apparently spent some time playing around with device and apologised for that saying he'd only being doing the job for a week. Basically it's pretty obvious to me that the recovery guy knew he'd damaged the car and has tried to get away with it.

[Zak33]

you're screwed bud

POD;s (Point of Delivery) terminals have ts and c's in them, she signed, game over.

you COULD spend your life chasing it down... depends how much your time is worth

AA will pass the buck to the agency. you have less than no hope.

Transporters often damage cars.. even brand new ones. Often. Lower front air dams, splitters, undertrays... it's a constant motor trade issue

the best truck drivers carry large thick planks of wood to bridge the angle between road and ramp, but it's a lot of extra work for a driver who isn't paid enough to worry about damage most people don't notice is pouring rain on a car covered in dirt

[jimborae]

you're screwed bud

POD;s (Point of Delivery) terminals have ts and c's in them, she signed, game over.

you COULD spend your life chasing it down... depends how much your time is worth

AA will pass the buck to the agency. you have less than no hope.

Transporters often damage cars.. even brand new ones. Often. Lower front air dams, splitters, undertrays... it's a constant motor trade issue

the best truck drivers carry large thick planks of wood to bridge the angle between road and ramp, but it's a lot of extra work for a driver who isn't paid enough to worry about damage most people don't notice is pouring rain on a car covered in dirt

Thanks for the reply I wont waste too much time on it but I have found the Recovery/Relay Report from the actual AA guy that attended the breakdown before it was recovered and there it notes no damage to the vehicle.

I may go down the route of the small claims court and see if the AA can be bothered to turn up if I get nowhere with them.

[BobF64]

This makes me think that people should start signing the pads with "NOT INSPECTED" rather than an actual signature.

At least on paper forms you had somewhere else you could write things like that.

[Saracen]

you're screwed bud

POD;s (Point of Delivery) terminals have ts and c's in them, she signed, game over.

you COULD spend your life chasing it down... depends how much your time is worth

AA will pass the buck to the agency. you have less than no hope.

Transporters often damage cars.. even brand new ones. Often. Lower front air dams, splitters, undertrays... it's a constant motor trade issue

the best truck drivers carry large thick planks of wood to bridge the angle between road and ramp, but it's a lot of extra work for a driver who isn't paid enough to worry about damage most people don't notice is pouring rain on a car covered in dirt

Afraid I don't agree.

T&Cs "built-in", that the signer neither saw, nor could have seen, aren't likely to carry much weight. It certainly depends on specifics, but several such cases have been ruled as signing for delivery is signing for exactly that.

The "3rd party agency" thing is even clearer. If the AA engaged a third party, THEY have the contract with the third party, not jimboeae, and they are responsible for damage to jimborae's property caused bytheir agent.

jimborae, a couple of (obvious) caveats ....

1) I Am Not A Lawyer
2) This is, obviously, just an opinion, not advice
3) Situations vary.
4) If they have taken a signature supplied in one form, and electronically transposed it to something else, thereby obtainaining financial advantage, there is a potential that that could be a criminal act, I.e. fraud, depending on exactly what they did.


Personally, my opinion is that large organisations often try to squirm out of liability for things like this being being awkward, obstructive, unreasonable, etc. And, it often works.

The downside for them is that, in general, Small Claims track judges really dislike that, because it is a form of legal bullying. My experience, and it's not huge, is that the one thing you don't want to be if a case winds up in front of such a judge is being seen to be awkward and unreasonable. Most such judges expect both parties in a dispute to have taken every fair and reasonable step to resolve disputes before dragging it before a court. And if some large corporation is throwing it's weight around and bullying private individuals, there is a good chance they will get a good slapping. These courts are supposed to be the final arbiter where two eminently reasonable parties simply can't agree.

So, jimborae, were this me, I would pursue the AA over this, and J'd do it in writing. Effectively, make the arguments you would make to the judge, if it gets that far. First, damage was not on the car when they took possession. Second, you have their form, not noting damage. Third, the "signed for" accepted delivery, not condition. Fourth, the electronic device displayed no T&Cs, etc, nor were you or your partner presented with such T&Cs, or exclusion of liability.

Etc.

Give them at least two or three chances to cough up.

If not, a registered letter advising them that you are not prepared to let the matter drop, and are givingvthem a FINAL chance to settle, or you will pursue any necessary action, without further notice, and this may involve further costs being added to the claim.

See, my opinion is it's unlikely they will want to end up in court, even small claims court, over this. It'll cost them more in hassle than the £400 is worth, on top of which they may well lose, on top of which is potential bad PR if media, or these days even worse might be social media, get hold of it.

The logic here, if you like, is whether you are prepared to out-stubborn them.

Often, in such situations, they rely on people giving up. The question is, are you prepared to be a right a*** back at them?

I've had several situations that are analogous, but not identical, to this including with a very large insurance company and an extremely large motor manufacturer. In both those cases, I took the attitude that, on principle, I wasn't going to give in to bullying. In both cases, had a reasonable offer been forthcoming early on, I'd have gladly compromised and got on with life. But in both cases, they played hardball. And I got annoyed, at which point I can get VERY stubborn. After several letters, I informed both that they had 7 days to settle, or I felt I had no choice but to proceed to legal action .... and I meant it. I had already completed all the Small Claims track documentation, and in that letter, offered to fax them a copy, but ...., short of receiving settlement in full, it WAS going to court claim, in 8 days.

And both settled in full.


So three possible routes ....

1) Don't give up. There is a good chance that once they see you are in the 5% that battle on, not the 95% that can't be bothered, they'll settle.

2) If they don't, you can give up, or go the court route. They may well settle.

3) If they still don't, then you either go to court, or pull out and write off the court fees.

So you need to decide if becoming a pain in their rear end over this is worth while to you either over the £400, or over not liking being screwed by them. Or both.

It's the kind of thing I would pursue, were it me, but then I quite enjoy the kick I get from wearing them down, provided I genuinely feel I am in the right. Your call, pal.

[jimborae]

Thanks Saracen, it's certainly something I'm not going too drop easily as I really don't think either myself or my partner are in the wrong here. Plus the AA's attitude is really getting my back up, especially as I'm a Gold member and have been for nearly a decade now and have previously had nothing but praise for them. Furthermore the company that did the recovery has got a bit of form for damaging other peoples cars from a quick search on the web.

[TeePee]

My bet is they ignore of fob off all your letters until you actually file a small claims action, then fold like a cheap hooker. Because that's the point when they have to actually spend money, and paying you off is cheaper. Merits of case are usually irrelevant.

[Saracen]

My bet is they ignore of fob off all your letters until you actually file a small claims action, then fold like a cheap hooker. Because that's the point when they have to actually spend money, and paying you off is cheaper. Merits of case are usually irrelevant.

That's true, and they might. But my experience was that they folded just before that, because I made it clear that if they waited until I took court action, it would be for the original amount, plus (court-approved) interest, plus court fees and, potentially, other expenses incurred. That is to say, if they waited quite that long, it was going to cost them more (assuming they lost).

Of course, there's no way to predict how any given organisation will react, if they'll fold at all and if they do, quite when.

[Saracen]

.... Plus the AA's attitude is really getting my back up, especially as I'm a Gold member and have been for nearly a decade now and have previously had nothing but praise for them. ....

Again, it's just my opinion but .... I think Gold means beggar all with the AA. I had that, too. And my membership card, when I told them to cancel a couple of years back, said "Joined 1965".

And no, that's not a typo. 50 years. Did it matter to them? Not one iota.

I expect, these days, to get ZERO respect from any large company for customer loyalty and in many cases it really says "idiot, not checking around, screw this one over". In past decades, yeah, it might mean something. Thsse days? Nah.

Small companies, however, can be very different. At least, good ones can. There, often, their business success depends on repeat business from regulars, and word of mouth recommendations. But to big corporates, you're an account number and a tiny drop in their revenue ocean and they really don't normally give a damn.

[jimbouk]

I expect, these days, to get ZERO respect from any large company for customer loyalty and in many cases it really says "idiot, not checking around, screw this one over". In past decades, yeah, it might mean something. Thsse days? Nah.

Yeah, I had a renewal come up with the AA, ask whether they'd match their online price for new customer, no. Explained that I could just sign up in my partners name as a new customer as we just had single car cover rather than personal, still no dice. Needless to say I didn't renew. Hook you in on a cheap deal and hope you don't shop around later.

[filbert]

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[The AA]

So my BMW 335i broke down (water pump died, common issue on the N54 engine) and the vehicle had to be recovered. Unfortunately I couldn't be present when it was recovered or delivered home, i had to get to a friends house. Anyway the car was recovered the next morning and delivered to my home address where my partner took delivery of it. She knows nothing about cars and was told to sign for delivery of the vehicle on an electronic pad of the type the post office use. The vehicle was recovered by a 3rd party on AA's behalf. When I eventually got home I inspected the car and found that the left and right splitters on the front bumper had been damaged where it had been loaded on & off the flat bed.

Long story short I got a quote and it's going to cost nearly £400 to repair, I sent the quote to the AA and they have replied that they wont cover the cost as my partner had signed a form agreeing that there was pre-existing damage and sent me an electronic copy of this. Speaking to my wife she denies signing any form or being informed that there was pre-existing damage and that there was no room on the electronic pad (which she did sign) to see any text about damage being recorded or ticking a box agreeing the damage.

So any thoughts on where I stand and word of warning to you all to not sign anything till YOU have checked the car thoroughly.

Hello, we'd like the opportunity to investigate this. Please email chat @ theaa . com with your details including membership number, full name and contact number. We will be happy to address this. Please title your email with reference REF201474. We look forward to hearing from you. Kind Regards.