Moved to electric: My Tesla Adventure

[Dashers]

One thing I would say - if you have a low-range leccy car like mine, you can get into hot-bother if you stray too far from the motorways currently. Charging points on motorways and major cities is plentiful, but rural towns out in the country, no charging.

That said, you can charge off a 13a socket if you have the time and the cable. And Renault at least provide 4 years break down recovery free of charge, which covers running out of juice.

[Xlucine]

Cars are pretty quiet these days, tyre noise is most significant above 10-20mph. And with the hard rubber on most EVs for economy, that shouldn't be any quieter than a ICE - the only difference in noise would be at supermarket car park speeds

...And while the EV may be efficient at converting electricity into motion (and then to heat!) the thermal efficiency of a fossil fuel power station is still only around 33%. (as is any form of Carnot cycle internal combustion engine)....

Power stations are far more efficient than cars, for a number of reasons. The lack of weight restrictions means you can do things like boil water with the hot exhaust gases to run a steam turbine, giving efficiencies well above 50% - my nearest power station claims an efficiency of greater than 59.5%! The lack of pumping losses across the throttle valve and economies of scale help in this as well. The upshot of this is that even with the 7% transmission losses in the national grid it's more efficient to burn fuel in a power station to charge an EV than in a car

[Dashers]

FWIW, we've had a number of days this year with no coal being burnt for UK power. You can also get carbon neutral electric tariffs that buy your leccy from renewable sources only.

Using power-generation as an argument against the environmental credentials of leccy vs combustion cars is just showing ignorance.

[kalniel]

I don't think it was being used that way, but rather the point is switching from oil to electricity will increase the demand on electricity generation full stop. There isn't enough renewable energy to go around as it is, let alone if demand increases. That's not a reason to stop pushing for EV IMHO, but it is a worthy point of consideration.

[Ttaskmaster]

There isn't enough renewable energy to go around as it is, let alone if demand increases. That's not a reason to stop pushing for EV IMHO, but it is a worthy point of consideration.

I keep hearing arguments to the contrary, that we're generating far more than we can use or store at most given moments... Not that I'm on board with a lot of the hippy tree-hugging renewable wibble that half such people spout. I'm waiting for more nuclear solutions.

But that's what I'm hearing, usually as lectures complete with pictures of these massive Tesla battery charging stations and the like...

[Flibb]

Here is al ink to current and historic UK electricity generating sources.
http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

the reason the wind has surpassed coal is that just about all the coal powered stations have been shut down, or have been converted to biomass (largely imported).
http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

[peterb]

Using power-generation as an argument against the environmental credentials of leccy vs combustion cars is just showing ignorance.

I don't think you read my post fully if that is the inference you drew.

I don't think it was being used that way, but rather the point is switching from oil to electricity will increase the demand on electricity generation full stop. There isn't enough renewable energy to go around as it is, let alone if demand increases. That's not a reason to stop pushing for EV IMHO, but it is a worthy point of consideration.

Indeed I wasn't - I was merely pointing out the the mass adoption of EVs will require considerable investment in infrastructure, which will have to be paid for in some way.

[Moby-Dick]

Its coming up to 18 months that we've had the leaf and I'm still very happy with it , however it is generally used for shorter trips within a 50 mile radius of home. I'd need something with the range of a model S to consider going EV only, but I really dont think thats too far in the future.

[buttersideup]

I keep hearing arguments to the contrary, that we're generating far more than we can use or store at most given moments... Not that I'm on board with a lot of the hippy tree-hugging renewable wibble that half such people spout. I'm waiting for more nuclear solutions.

But that's what I'm hearing, usually as lectures complete with pictures of these massive Tesla battery charging stations and the like...

I don't think the UK has ever been very near generating more renewable electricity than we could use. I don't think it's been below 20% fossil fuel generation (with nuclear, renewables and imports making up the rest).

Sometimes due to the financial contracts arranged with other power stations or lack of capacity in some parts of the grid, some renewables are 'curtailed' i.e. turned off deliberately. This is obviously not a sane thing to do except in exceptional circumstances, so I'd guess there is pressure to keep this to a minimum!

Renewable power is probably highest I've seen it today:

https://www.solar.sheffield.ac.uk/pvlive/

... click "Real Time UK Generation Mix" - shows solar too - unlike some of the other similar sites.

If you were to charge last night in the early morning (which you can set most electric cars to do), you would have got electricity at about 125g CO2/kWh - http://www.earth.org.uk/_gridCarbonIntensityGB.html

Electric cars do between about 4 to 7 km per kWh, so carbon emissions would have been 31 to 17 grammes CO2 per km.

The best diesels and petrol cars do around 100 g CO2/km.

A Mercedes which is roughly at equiv performance to the Model S will chuck out at least 250 grammes CO2 per km (if you get the book mpg - otherwise more like 350 g for those with a heavy right foot).

The grid isn't usually as low carbon as today (windy, during summer, with pretty high solar during the day too), but electric cars in the UK are still lower CO2 than petrol or diesels all the time. On other electricity grids it may be different, but not many -

https://www.electricitymap.org/

http://blog.ucsusa.org/dave-reichmut...aner-than-ever

Let's chose the worst I can find now - Estonia at 1074 g / kWh (next worse in Europe at the moment is Poland at 640 g), that'd put EVs at between 153 and 268 g / km - so there at the moment a Fiesta 1.4 will beat a Leaf, but the Tesla is still probably better than the Merc.

[tfboy]

I hadn't anticipated this turning into an energy thread :-)
My personal opinion is having energy storage (battery or other) combined with solar and wind to have a more consistent 24/7 availability.
I wonder what could be achieved if the cost of Hinkley point was spent on renewables and storage. You'd probably get as far and not have to wait several years to start getting the power and RoI.

Regarding the Tesla, I'd be happy to show anyone around the Reading area if you were interested. A ludicrous launch is worth the experience in exchange of a pint at the pub.

[MrJim]

Regarding the Tesla, I'd be happy to show anyone around the Reading area if you were interested. A ludicrous launch is worth the experience in exchange of a pint at the pub.

I remember watching a Youtube review of the Tesla which included trying out Ludicrous launch mode, & I seem to remember the car giving a warning that its use can reduce the lifespan of the drive-train. I'm guessing that's not covered by the warranty?

[buttersideup]

I hadn't anticipated this turning into an energy thread :-)
My personal opinion is having energy storage (battery or other) combined with solar and wind to have a more consistent 24/7 availability.
I wonder what could be achieved if the cost of Hinkley point was spent on renewables and storage. You'd probably get as far and not have to wait several years to start getting the power and RoI.

The contracted electricity price guaranteed to Hinkley Point C (for 30 years I think?) roughly matches the price recently Tesla started getting (guaranteed 20 years I think) for a grid-scale PV+battery in Hawaii. This replaced more expensive diesel generation I think, so made purely economic sense.

Sadly the batteries would have to bridge much larger gaps in the UK (a few overcast, still winter days gets you in trouble). Of course the Hawaii system is already live, and I don't suppose Hinkley Point C will meet its target to start generating in about 10 years time.

https://youtu.be/hzywt2bDP54?t=13m21s

... still battery costs are halving every 4 to 8 years, so maybe by the time HPC comes online, two weeks' battery storage will compete with it on price.

[Dashers]

I hadn't anticipated this turning into an energy thread :-)

Always happens when talking about EV's, haters attack the concept.

[buttersideup]

Always happens when talking about EV's, haters attack the concept.

I bet the same thing happened when electric trains started to replace steam, and cars pushed out stage coaches... Except with more horse cr@p arguments this time around.

[Ttaskmaster]

Regarding the Tesla, I'd be happy to show anyone around the Reading area if you were interested. A ludicrous launch is worth the experience in exchange of a pint at the pub.

Where in Reading would there be a suitable road for such an activity, though?

Always happens when talking about EV's, haters attack the concept.

It's not the concept I hate and attack... just the lack of implementation, the mere suggestion that I'd be forced by the government to swap to something I neither like nor can afford, and particularly the self-righteous drivel spouted by many owners who cannot understand how it's basically not even as good as my own, so not suitable as a replacement... more so when there are better alternatives that should have been on the market long before now.

[TeePee]

I have been an utter, outspoken critic of electric cars, but I love the Tesla. Absolutely fantastic car. If you haven't experienced ludicrous mode, go do it. Now.

Obviously the same but applies to the Model S, as to other electric cars. They just aren't good value. In the past, the I've illustrated this by pointing out that the electric car under discussion costs as much as a much awesomer ICE car with twenty years of petrol. The Tesla makes that argument irrelevant. Yes, for the price of the Tesla you could buy an F-Type R and have change left over for a top end 5 series to punt the family around in, and we could wear out our keyboards talking about raw driving experience vs raw performance, but it's all a waste of time. A discussion of value is worthless when it comes to a vehicle like the Tesla. It's a unique driving experience that defies comparison to any other vehicle on the road. I'd borrow one any chance I got!

I'm interested to see how the Model 3 stacks up.

(Until recently I owned stock in Tesla.)