New car time

[Ttaskmaster]

Climate control is totally worth it over aircon. Just get in and go, and everything is how you like it without you ever having to press a button (by feel or otherwise)

And how do you like it?
You're telling me you are always perfect at one exact temperature and no matter how freezing cold or baking hot you start off, you are always perfectly happy with everything set the same?
So, for example, when you step in from 36ºC heat outside into a baked car and have your Climatronic set to the approximate 22º as recommended by the manufacturer, you're happy to continue being thus heated?
Or does your climate control maintain the car conditions even when it's parked up for several hours, so it's perfect the moment you step inside?

If it's that good, why is climate control still adjustable? Why would it need that facility?

Hence the use of automatic climate control... unless you still live in the 90s.

Yes yes, and automatic windscreen wipers, automatically adjusting headlights, auto high/low/dipping headlights, and automatic everything else, because it's 'just *too much* to deal with when you have to concentrate on driving'...
I hear this argument a lot from kids these days. I also see a lot of lazy young drivers, who think handing controls over to the car means they can focus on the complex controls of Stop, Go, Left and Right... and yet fail to manage even this minimised set.
And for the record, I live in the 1980s, if I can. Stuff was cooler than the 90s and didn't involve Kurt Cobain.

But anyway - Automatic climate control does not account for any variance most humans experience in personal preferences.
So no matter how 2017 your kit, it is still not advanced enough for the mkI human or as adaptable as the simple temperature dial.

Owning a car without that optional extra is not worth the money saved.

This is England.
We've managed for decades without it.

But alas that comes from African experience where aircons are not a luxury but a necessity if you are to get to your destination without dehydration.

Oh, you're South African, are you?
Cor, I'd never have guessed....

Strange how most of my Saffer friends still drive cars without aircon and don't seem to have a problem. Something about having windows that go down, they said....

It is insane how stupid people can be with optional extras... I found it equally difficult looking for my E46 to find something with both cruise control and climate control. Who skimps on those things when they make such a huge difference to driving comfort?

Who is so incapable of basic driving ability that they regard them as seemingly essential for driving comfort?
See above regarding lazy drivers.... and yes, my car has both of these features.
Plus, this is the UK - It's a rare day you get to make proper use of cruise control given typical traffic conditions.

[Noxvayl]

And how do you like it?
You're telling me you are always perfect at one exact temperature and no matter how freezing cold or baking hot you start off, you are always perfectly happy with everything set the same?
So, for example, when you step in from 36ºC heat outside into a baked car and have your Climatronic set to the approximate 22º as recommended by the manufacturer, you're happy to continue being thus heated?
Or does your climate control maintain the car conditions even when it's parked up for several hours, so it's perfect the moment you step inside?

If it's that good, why is climate control still adjustable? Why would it need that facility?


Yes yes, and automatic windscreen wipers, automatically adjusting headlights, auto high/low/dipping headlights, and automatic everything else, because it's 'just *too much* to deal with when you have to concentrate on driving'...
I hear this argument a lot from kids these days. I also see a lot of lazy young drivers, who think handing controls over to the car means they can focus on the complex controls of Stop, Go, Left and Right... and yet fail to manage even this minimised set.
And for the record, I live in the 1980s, if I can. Stuff was cooler than the 90s and didn't involve Kurt Cobain.

But anyway - Automatic climate control does not account for any variance most humans experience in personal preferences.
So no matter how 2017 your kit, it is still not advanced enough for the mkI human or as adaptable as the simple temperature dial.


This is England.
We've managed for decades without it.


Oh, you're South African, are you?
Cor, I'd never have guessed....

Strange how most of my Saffer friends still drive cars without aircon and don't seem to have a problem. Something about having windows that go down, they said....



Who is so incapable of basic driving ability that they regard them as seemingly essential for driving comfort?
See above regarding lazy drivers.... and yes, my car has both of these features.
Plus, this is the UK - It's a rare day you get to make proper use of cruise control given typical traffic conditions.

Lol do you realise how bad having your windows down is for your fuel economy? Not to mention not being able to hear a friend talking next to you.

Perhaps you don't know how to left foot break then. I use cruise control from 30mph all the way to 80mph, cuts down reactions times significantly and has allowed me to save many pedestrians lives when they decide to step out in front of me. You should go get some advanced driving lessons methinks :-P

[Ttaskmaster]

Lol do you realise how bad having your windows down is for your fuel economy? Not to mention not being able to hear a friend talking next to you.

Only above 60-odd mph.
Below that, using aircon actually uses more fuel, up to 10% of your economy.

Also fresh air is better than conditioned air, in a number of situations, especially when you don't need a faceful of dry air.
The key is the ability to change between them.

Perhaps you don't know how to left foot break then.

Perhaps you don't realise that many road cars actually reduce the fuel to lower the revs upon braking, rendering left foot breaking and similar techniques pretty useless? One of the drawbacks in having fairly modern fly-by-wire throttles and ECUs geared around fuel economy.

Perhaps you don't realise the number of people who think Left Foot Braking is something special, or some kind of efficient habit they've learned, but then fluff it during the moment of emergency and forget to release the throttle... or plant both feet... which results in high rev spinouts and exacerbates the situation further.

Perhaps you don't realise that the absence of a clutch robs you of the ability to disengage the engine and control weight transfer during braking, in the event of one of several failures such as engine surge, many of which are instigated by factors outside your control, resulting in further problems and a common reason why many (pro, amateur and general drivers) still prefer to drive manual vehicles.

Perhaps you don't realise that Left Foot Braking is more of a racing manoeuvre, designed to keep power to the front while locking the rear wheels of a FWD car and instigating a skid, that it is frequently counter to the more common right-footed human, that it requires a far greater degree of practice and control to use properly and that these are among the main reasons it's not even taught on some advanced driving programmes.

Or perhaps you can come up with a different card, instead of this one Left Foot Braking card you seem to pull out all the time?
It's nowhere near as prevalent enough to be the be all and it's nowhere near as useful enough to be the end all.

I assume you read some article on it, probably about blending and efficiency, or how it lets you focus 100% on braking in an emergency? The big problem is that people then DO focus 100% on braking, forgetting entirely about even basic steering and throttle.
There's a reason why Position comes before Speed.

I use cruise control from 30mph all the way to 80mph, cuts down reactions times significantly and has allowed me to save many pedestrians lives when they decide to step out in front of me.

So you drive with a foot poised over the brake pedal, which you can do without having Cruise Control anyway, while ignoring the fixed location throttle pedal and instead chooing to press a button on a movable wheel to alter your throttle to suit the conditions?
Absolute rubbish-rubbish-rubbish lazy driving, right there. How heavy is your trail, do you reckon?

You should go get some advanced driving lessons methinks :-P

You clearly need it more than me, mate, as evidenced by your statements above. Might wanna recheck your basics first, though.

[DanceswithUnix]

Great if you are buying a new car, but most used cars don't. Mine doesn't and it's a '15 plate. AC was standard but climate control wasn't for the model I wanted, and when looking I think there was only that had it out of the 50+ listed.

I found when choosing my car dual zone climate control was pretty much the standard for a 14 plate Giulietta (it was less popular when I bought the 05 plate previous car) and yet oddly for this country heated seats were really hard to come by. Perhaps that is because it is a smallish car.

ISTR when looking at a new Giulia (admittedly a higher end car starting at almost 30K) I think the option is triple zone climate control with dual as standard.

Edit:

If it's that good, why is climate control still adjustable? Why would it need that facility?

Because different drivers have different requirements? Also for people such as yourself, you can press the auto button to turn it into a dumb aircon system should you wish; your car your choice.

Bad climate control (I'm looking at you Vauxhall Omega) is pointless expense, but done properly it is a joy. Temperature sensors inside and out as well as humidity sensors work out not just how hot you actually are but model the wind chill factor from the fan speed so it is working out how hot/cold you *feel* at any moment not just automating an aircon style "hot day so press blue button". As a bonus compared to simple aircon it can save fuel as it will turn the compressor off automatically when no longer needed.

So in your example earlier, when you get in a hot car on a hot day the climate control will blast you with some cold air, then as the inside temperature drops it will turn the fans down and switch to floor vents because blowing in your face will make you feel too cold (and frankly comes across as a bit rude ).

[Ttaskmaster]

I found when choosing my car dual zone climate control was pretty much the standard for a 14 plate Giulietta (it was less popular when I bought the 05 plate previous car) and yet oddly for this country heated seats were really hard to come by. Perhaps that is because it is a smallish car.

I have heated seats in my '03 car, as standard for the trim level.

[DanceswithUnix]

I have heated seats in my '03 car, as standard for the trim level.

I had heated seats in my '00 car as it was standard on the 166. I can see how in the new car it would be an option as the budget end doesn't have leather seats, but if you have gone for the leather seats option I would have thought you would go for heating in this country, so I was surprised it was only standard on the top end model.

[Ttaskmaster]

Because different drivers have different requirements? Also for people such as yourself, you can press the auto button to turn it into a dumb aircon system should you wish; your car your choice.

Mine works the other way - Auto goes into full Car Decides For You mode.
But I maintain the argument that even an individual driver can have different requirements at different times or under different conditions.
Heck, I vary the aircon just to clear the windscren faster... and while I'm sure that can be fully analysed and programmed into the Automatic Deciding Unit for optimum delivery of what the programmer thinks is the most efficient solution, it's just another added cost that honestly doesn't make the slightest bit of difference to my life, my driving 'experience', my driving ability, or anything else.

Temperature sensors inside and out as well as humidity sensors work out not just how hot you actually are but model the wind chill factor from the fan speed so it is working out how hot/cold you *feel* at any moment not just automating an aircon style "hot day so press blue button".

All of which is relative and I still know more about how I feel than the car does.
Reminds me of an auto-adjusting seat (I forget the brand) that tried to decide for me what position I was most comfortable to drive in... THAT was a disaster and the salesman was most offended that it didn't work.

As a bonus compared to simple aircon it can save fuel as it will turn the compressor off automatically when no longer needed.

Mine does this too.
Meh.

So in your example earlier, when you get in a hot car on a hot day the climate control will blast you with some cold air, then as the inside temperature drops it will turn the fans down and switch to floor vents because blowing in your face will make you feel too cold (and frankly comes across as a bit rude ).

I find my eyes often dry out before it gets sufficiently cold to satisfy the car's idea of what my ideal temperature should be, and/or it doesn't factor in the heating effect of the sun coming through glass directly onto my arm, or something. It's like asking a motherboard-controlled PWM cooling system to moderate fan speed for optimum noise vs cooling, and to know when my Mrs is sleeping lightly enough to be woken by varying fan noise behind three walls...

Sometimes a simple dial is just better.

but if you have gone for the leather seats option I would have thought you would go for heating in this country, so I was surprised it was only standard on the top end model.

Leather seats have often previously been the domain of high end cars with aircon, or convertibles, or sports cars.
Depends how the manufacturer interpreted their marketing data analysis, really and how they work it into different budget levels (or not). My cheap pile of junk has heated leather, while the equivalent model in other marques has only leather, or only heated, or even neither.

[Noxvayl]

@Ttaskmaster, I doubt you've ever had advanced driving lessons by the way you speak... I have, because it is a necessity for survival in africa where I regularly had to dodge taxi drivers using pliers for their steering wheel. You learn to drive properly when you realise other drivers on the road are a hazzard waiting to happen.

Anyway, as you are obviously "so much more knowledgeable" I'll concede that you are still lacking in your communication skills.

[Ttaskmaster]

@Ttaskmaster, I doubt you've ever had advanced driving lessons by the way you speak...

Driving and riding, both from an ex-officer who used to instruct other cops.

I have, because it is a necessity for survival in africa where I regularly had to dodge taxi drivers using pliers for their steering wheel. You learn to drive properly when you realise other drivers on the road are a hazzard waiting to happen.

Ah yes, you're from South Africa, aren't you? Sorry, I'd completely forgotten...!!

So, using African standards to judge UK roads, driving and people... Not what I'd have chosen, really.
As explained, there is no one standard for Advanced Driving in the UK and different people will argue different techniques, even in the same car under the same conditions.

Anyway, as you are obviously "so much more knowledgeable" I'll concede that you are still lacking in your communication skills.

I'm so sorry, what would you prefer?
What would make your day sparkle with sunshine?
Is it the bluntness? Is it too much for you? Do you need a hug? Would a string of emoticons help?
Certainly you seem to fully understand what I'm saying, so the communication obviously isn't that bad...

I'd remark on your own, but that'll get the thread shut down.

[badass]

Make your mind up, mate! Either everything looks samey and boring, or the i3 is an abomination!

It's easy to work out. Whatever self confessed pauper Ttaskmaster cannot afford is rubbish for some reason or other! Reasons do not have to make sense.

[DanceswithUnix]

Mine works the other way - Auto goes into full Car Decides For You mode.
But I maintain the argument that even an individual driver can have different requirements at different times or under different conditions.
Heck, I vary the aircon just to clear the windscren faster... and while I'm sure that can be fully analysed and programmed into the Automatic Deciding Unit for optimum delivery of what the programmer thinks is the most efficient solution, it's just another added cost that honestly doesn't make the slightest bit of difference to my life, my driving 'experience', my driving ability, or anything else.

The auto button is usually a toggle, it goes both ways

So your car does have climate control? As I said some are better than others. For windscreen demist, I would expect to press the windscreen demist button and if climate control is enabled it will make good use of the aircon compressor.

Perhaps the good climate control is reserved for Audi in the VW group?

But I think I can see now what your ideal vehicle controls should look like from complaints about automation and over simplified interiors

[Ttaskmaster]

It's easy to work out. Whatever self confessed pauper Ttaskmaster cannot afford is rubbish for some reason or other! Reasons do not have to make sense.

Absolute tosh - Plenty out there I cannot afford that would still be fantastic, personal opinion and tastes notwithstanding.

However, you cannot deny that car manufacturers (and technology producers in general) often introduce a number of "innovations" that are basically solutions to problems that never existed... and not all of them are even good solutions, no matter how heavily the fanboys try to justify their wasted money.

[Ttaskmaster]

The auto button is usually a toggle, it goes both ways

Mine isn't. Econ mode is, but Auto stays on until you select one of the manual options.

So your car does have climate control?

Yup.

For windscreen demist, I would expect to press the windscreen demist button and if climate control is enabled it will make good use of the aircon compressor.

Again, mine does use it, but it doesn't know when you're able to see well enough out of the window in order to drive and so gradually turn the cooling to warming while maintaining the optimum air humidity balance to keep clearing windows without compromising your personal comfort at that particular moment.... and to be honest, I doubt any system does.

[Butcher]

Climate control is a must have feature for me. I would much rather just set a temperature with a dial, than mess about with hot/cold air balance and toggling fan speeds. Luckily for me, my car came with dual zone climate as standard.
Also I find pressing the demist button until the screen clears and then toggling it off (so the climate control goes back to normal mode) is fine for windscreen clearing. That said I never turn off my A/C which helps a lot with reducing widow misting.

[Ttaskmaster]

I would much rather just set a temperature with a dial, than mess about with hot/cold air balance and toggling fan speeds.

What happens when you set it for, say, 20ºC and then the sun comes out, not enough to heat the car to any degree but enough to make you uncomfortably hot through the window glass?

That's the point I usually start messing with the settings.

[Butcher]

If I'm too hot I turn it down 0.5-1C, if I'm too cold I turn it up 0.5-1C. It's still a lot less faff than having to balance hot vs cold with a red/blue dial and manipulate fan speeds.