Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 17 to 26 of 26

Thread: No auto stop-start on 2013 Focus - bad battery?

  1. #17
    “High End” Admin peterb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Southampton
    Posts
    18,381
    Thanks
    2,522
    Thanked
    3,085 times in 2,459 posts
    • peterb's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Nascom 2
      • CPU:
      • Z80B
      • Memory:
      • 48K 8 bit memory on separate card
      • Storage:
      • Audio cassette tape - home built 5.25" floppy drive
      • Graphics card(s):
      • text output (composite video)
      • PSU:
      • Home built
      • Case:
      • Home built
      • Operating System:
      • Nas-sys
      • Monitor(s):
      • 12" monocrome composite video input
      • Internet:
      • No networking capability on this machine

    Re: No auto stop-start on 2013 Focus - bad battery?

    Quote Originally Posted by watercooled View Post

    Some articles seem to imply Fords will do some sort of regenerative braking to assist in battery charging; I wonder if this just means the alternator is loaded more heavily during braking, as I don't see any additional components in the parts list that could relate to this?
    I was intrigued by this so I did a little digging. It seems that some Fords have a clutch on the alternator, the idea being that under hard acceleration, the alternator can be de-clutched so that more engine power goes to the wheels. Under braking the alternator is clutched back in to charge the battery - the assumption being that the battery will be partially discharged and able to load up the alternator.

    That last bit is essential, because under a 'normal' set up where the alternator is permanently engaged, the battery will nearly always be permanently charged, so there is little load for the alternator to provide a braking effect.

    It seems an odd arrangement for Ford when the stop/start needs a fairly full battery to cope with frequent stop starts in urban driving conditions, but perhaps the algorithm takes into account throttle demand before de-clutching the alternator?
    (\__/)
    (='.'=)
    (")_(")

    Been helped or just 'Like' a post? Use the Thanks button!
    My broadband speed - 750 Meganibbles/minute

  2. #18
    DILLIGAF GoNz0's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Derby
    Posts
    10,814
    Thanks
    621
    Thanked
    1,168 times in 929 posts
    • GoNz0's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus Rampage V Extreme
      • CPU:
      • i7 something X99 based
      • Memory:
      • 16gb GSkill
      • Storage:
      • 4 SSD's + WD Red
      • Graphics card(s):
      • GTX980 Strix WC
      • PSU:
      • Enermax Galaxy 1250 (9 years and counting)
      • Case:
      • Corsair 900D
      • Operating System:
      • win10 64bit
      • Monitor(s):
      • Dell 24"
      • Internet:
      • 220mb Cable

    Re: No auto stop-start on 2013 Focus - bad battery?

    You would think it would be better to limit and cut out charge electronically?
    I can understand them using a clutch on my 20 year old 328's large air con compressor to cut out when you go WOT but 20 years on surely it isn't the best way to do it?

    Capitalization is the difference between helping your Uncle Jack
    off a horse and helping your uncle jack off a horse.

  3. #19
    “High End” Admin peterb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Southampton
    Posts
    18,381
    Thanks
    2,522
    Thanked
    3,085 times in 2,459 posts
    • peterb's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Nascom 2
      • CPU:
      • Z80B
      • Memory:
      • 48K 8 bit memory on separate card
      • Storage:
      • Audio cassette tape - home built 5.25" floppy drive
      • Graphics card(s):
      • text output (composite video)
      • PSU:
      • Home built
      • Case:
      • Home built
      • Operating System:
      • Nas-sys
      • Monitor(s):
      • 12" monocrome composite video input
      • Internet:
      • No networking capability on this machine

    Re: No auto stop-start on 2013 Focus - bad battery?

    That can be tricky, generally the way to control the output is to alter the excitation voltage on the rotor - that is controlled by the regulator circuitry. But there is usually some residuals magnetism, and under no load conditions the voltage can rise to high levels, so you then have to run it open cut, and use diodes that can withstand those voltages. A simple magnetically operated clutch might be simpler and more reliable.
    (\__/)
    (='.'=)
    (")_(")

    Been helped or just 'Like' a post? Use the Thanks button!
    My broadband speed - 750 Meganibbles/minute

  4. #20
    root Member DanceswithUnix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    In the middle of a core dump
    Posts
    8,994
    Thanks
    413
    Thanked
    890 times in 760 posts
    • DanceswithUnix's system
      • Motherboard:
      • M5A-97 EVO R2.0
      • CPU:
      • FX-8350
      • Memory:
      • 16GB ECC 1333
      • Storage:
      • 500GB Linux, 1TB Games (Win 10)
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Asus Strix RX Vega 56
      • PSU:
      • 650W Corsair TX
      • Case:
      • Antec 300
      • Operating System:
      • Fedora 28 + Win 10 Pro 64 (yuk)
      • Monitor(s):
      • Benq XL2730Z 1440p + Samsung 2343BW 2048x1152
      • Internet:
      • Zen 80Mb/20Mb VDSL

    Re: No auto stop-start on 2013 Focus - bad battery?

    Quote Originally Posted by peterb View Post
    I was intrigued by this so I did a little digging. It seems that some Fords have a clutch on the alternator, the idea being that under hard acceleration, the alternator can be de-clutched so that more engine power goes to the wheels. Under braking the alternator is clutched back in to charge the battery - the assumption being that the battery will be partially discharged and able to load up the alternator.
    That is interesting, I saw that behaviour in my Alfa described as: The alternator charges the battery to 85% and then cuts out to save load and hence fuel. If the ECU sees that you are engine breaking, it turns the alternator back on to gain some charge until you are at 100%. So they push it as an economy feature, perhaps because you expect performance from an Alfa but my cars have often drawn comments like "that must drink fuel" and people look surprised when you point out that performance through efficiency means that no, it really doesn't

    I bought my car as a three year old car so just out of warranty, and in the couple of months I have had it the stop-start has never kicked in but that just means I don't have to press the disable button so I have been OK with that. The forums say it is always the battery either on the way out or replaced with the wrong type.

  5. Received thanks from:

    watercooled (16-08-2017)

  6. #21
    Senior Member watercooled's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    10,556
    Thanks
    1,479
    Thanked
    895 times in 774 posts

    Re: No auto stop-start on 2013 Focus - bad battery?

    Quote Originally Posted by kalniel View Post
    I'd have thought you could feel engine braking in most cars to be honest, regardless of regen . Extent just depends on how large the flywheel is and what the software tells the fuelling to do to smooth it off.
    Yeah I just thought it felt a bit stronger than other cars I've driven. I don't mean so much when you lift off the accelerator, more when you're braking and push down the clutch a bit early. I couldn't say for sure though, it's subtle if anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix View Post
    That is interesting, I saw that behaviour in my Alfa described as: The alternator charges the battery to 85% and then cuts out to save load and hence fuel. If the ECU sees that you are engine breaking, it turns the alternator back on to gain some charge until you are at 100%. So they push it as an economy feature, perhaps because you expect performance from an Alfa but my cars have often drawn comments like "that must drink fuel" and people look surprised when you point out that performance through efficiency means that no, it really doesn't

    I bought my car as a three year old car so just out of warranty, and in the couple of months I have had it the stop-start has never kicked in but that just means I don't have to press the disable button so I have been OK with that. The forums say it is always the battery either on the way out or replaced with the wrong type.
    Yeah that's more or less the way I see it at the moment - not having to press the disable button every time I get in!

    It seems a bit strange to be holding a lead acid battery at less than a full charge though, doesn't that encourage sulphation? Or is 85% high enough to avoid that?

    FWIW, I'm back from a ~200 mile round trip and it's changed nothing - no cut-out and battery still at about 12.3v.

  7. #22
    Senior Member watercooled's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    10,556
    Thanks
    1,479
    Thanked
    895 times in 774 posts

    Re: No auto stop-start on 2013 Focus - bad battery?

    Quick update for those interested:

    Given winter is approaching and I noticed the starter making an unusual noise a few days ago on a particularly cold start, I ordered a Yuasa YBX7100 from mdsbattery and I've just finished installing it. It's fairly awkward to do (especially in the dark) due to both the awkward positioning of the battery and how it's boxed in, but I eventually managed to do it.

    I got in the car and everything worked as normal; no need for a radio code, and even the clock didn't reset, so maybe I did it quickly enough that nothing fully discharged. After checking it started OK, I switched the ignition back off and went through the BMS reset sequence I found on another forum. I was initially worried as nothing happened for about 5-10 seconds but eventually the battery light on the dash blinked.

    I went for a drive to warm the engine up (and to give the ECU a chance to re-learn as the manual suggests). Got to a set of lights, and lo and behold, the engine switched off and the A symbol lit on the dash!!!

    FWIW, the new battery measured 12.80v fresh out of the box, and the one I've just removed currently measures 12.32v with no load attached.

  8. #23
    Senior Member Jonj1611's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    3,039
    Thanks
    635
    Thanked
    292 times in 244 posts
    • Jonj1611's system
      • Motherboard:
      • MSI X370 Titanium
      • CPU:
      • Ryzen 7 1700X
      • Memory:
      • 16GB DDR4 3000Mhz
      • Storage:
      • 500GB Samsung 850 EVO, 1 x 1TB, 1 x 2TB
      • Graphics card(s):
      • 8GB EVGA GTX1080 FTW
      • PSU:
      • EVGA 750W SuperNova G2
      • Case:
      • BeQuiet Silent Base 800
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10 Pro 64-Bit
      • Monitor(s):
      • Acer 31.5" QHD IPS LED
      • Internet:
      • Virgin 350MB

    Re: No auto stop-start on 2013 Focus - bad battery?

    Definitely not a fault alternator?
    Jon

  9. #24
    Senior Member watercooled's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    10,556
    Thanks
    1,479
    Thanked
    895 times in 774 posts

    Re: No auto stop-start on 2013 Focus - bad battery?

    Unlikely; it's been the same for several months and is consistently around that voltage with the engine off, and >14v with the engine running (as mentioned in OP) i.e. nothing IMO to suggest a faulty alternator. The battery won't hold a full charge even after being left on a battery charger overnight, plus it's ~4 years old.

  10. #25
    Senior Member Jonj1611's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    3,039
    Thanks
    635
    Thanked
    292 times in 244 posts
    • Jonj1611's system
      • Motherboard:
      • MSI X370 Titanium
      • CPU:
      • Ryzen 7 1700X
      • Memory:
      • 16GB DDR4 3000Mhz
      • Storage:
      • 500GB Samsung 850 EVO, 1 x 1TB, 1 x 2TB
      • Graphics card(s):
      • 8GB EVGA GTX1080 FTW
      • PSU:
      • EVGA 750W SuperNova G2
      • Case:
      • BeQuiet Silent Base 800
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10 Pro 64-Bit
      • Monitor(s):
      • Acer 31.5" QHD IPS LED
      • Internet:
      • Virgin 350MB

    Re: No auto stop-start on 2013 Focus - bad battery?

    Fair enough I did read that in the original post but always worth checking
    Jon

  11. #26
    DILLIGAF GoNz0's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Derby
    Posts
    10,814
    Thanks
    621
    Thanked
    1,168 times in 929 posts
    • GoNz0's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus Rampage V Extreme
      • CPU:
      • i7 something X99 based
      • Memory:
      • 16gb GSkill
      • Storage:
      • 4 SSD's + WD Red
      • Graphics card(s):
      • GTX980 Strix WC
      • PSU:
      • Enermax Galaxy 1250 (9 years and counting)
      • Case:
      • Corsair 900D
      • Operating System:
      • win10 64bit
      • Monitor(s):
      • Dell 24"
      • Internet:
      • 220mb Cable

    Re: No auto stop-start on 2013 Focus - bad battery?

    The radio will probably be like my last works van, serial of the radio is coded to the chassis number so the d can? (assuming d can) bus can make the checks without you having to find the code.

    Amusingly my wife's Mini started to keep running and only stop starting once in a blue moon, I assumed it was the battery as it was the original 2011 battery from new, one day it started to work again and really confused me, I couldn't do a code scan as I hadn't got my new cable to check it. It was the air con condenser leaking, this backed up the crap aircon. Turns out the engine kept running to try and pull the internal temps down, of course the engine doesn't need to be on if you have the aircon off and I had turned it off for some reason. Still cost me about the same as a bloody battery and half a day removing the majority of the cars front end to get it out!

    got the cable and the battery still charges to 89% so fingers crossed it last a bit longer!

    Capitalization is the difference between helping your Uncle Jack
    off a horse and helping your uncle jack off a horse.

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •