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Thread: Make it illegal for Historic Vehicles to be processed through scrappage schemes

  1. #17
    Comrade Moose CAT-THE-FIFTH's Avatar
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    Re: Make it illegal for Historic Vehicles to be processed through scrappage schemes

    Quote Originally Posted by spacein_vader View Post
    The reason a lot of those cars are nearly all gone is because many of them started rusting before they left the factory.

    All classic cars are old but not all old cars are classics.
    If they are rusting away to pieces no company is going to accept them as part exchange?? Look at computer trade-in or camera trade-ins,the trade-ins need to be in working condition. If they are in good condition they will be worth decent money.

    In case of the car Zak33 mentioned it was in entirely mint condition. In the end its not really an excuse,to scrap a car worth more than the steel value,and it seems Ford agrees as they won't be scrapping perfectly functional old cars. Cars which are scrapped more recently are unlikely to be the cars you talk about.

    The fact a mint condition car from a company which has long gone was being sent to the scrapyard for a Transit,hints very strongly as this being a car inherited from a family member who did look after it and they owner had no clue it was probably worth a few grand.

    I know not a single person who would have a 60 year old car in mint condition with everything working who would be scrapping it. The fact its survived 60 years indicate it has been looked after by a car enthusiast and probably an older person.

    For example our friend had an MG Metro,which was one of the higher performance models and he got a reasonable sum for it and I suspect most would say its a Metro and get £50 in scrap for it. I mean look at the values of 205 GTI 1.9 models for example. A lot of people simply don't know the value of some of these cars at all if they inherited these things since they CBA advertising it.

    Some of those 80s hot hatch Fords are worth a lot now,since so few are left as so many were crashed. They are hardly considered a Bugatti or something.

    Its the same in the UK when it comes to some French cars like Venturis and Alpines,which are rare and they are being reverse exported back to France,etc since there are French buyers looking on the UK market for cars.

    IIRC,there has even been the case of US cars from here being exported back to the US.

    In the end it is still part of our motoring history,and you could argue the same of a Spitfire,etc.

    I give you another example during a recent gun amnesty(I think it was here),someone handed in an antique gun(a few 100 years old) which was obvious a family heirloom. Another one was a FP45 Liberator pistol which is very rare. Some of these are worth real money as antiques or at least a donation. Obviously the people who handed them had no real clue of what they were worth.

    The police did the right thing and will donate such guns to museums and not melt them down.

    So why shouldn't be any different for cars??

    If you don't want an old car,advertise it even for free and I am sure people will take it off your hands,even for parts.

    Edit!!

    I give you a prime example of what I said earlier.

    The Vauxhall Chevette is rare - less than 500 left in the country.

    I knew someone who had a mint condition one,with a perfect interior and perfect body which had actually been inherited from a friend. It actually won an award in a classic car show years before. It was a perfect runner and had no issue passing an MoT.

    The owner decided to go to car dealership who didn't want,it so paid £50 to scrap it.

    It was worth £1000s of pounds especially in that condition.

    Less than 500 on the road now.
    Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 04-02-2018 at 07:08 PM.


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    Senior Member spacein_vader's Avatar
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    Re: Make it illegal for Historic Vehicles to be processed through scrappage schemes

    I'm not saying they have to be exotic, but they do have to be noteworthy. You kind of make my point for me: A 205 GTi is worth money because it packed so much punch for its size and the group B connection. A 205 GLD for example is worth buttons because it has no interesting features. So pointlessly saying there are only x many 205s left doesn't differentiate.

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    Comrade Moose CAT-THE-FIFTH's Avatar
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    Re: Make it illegal for Historic Vehicles to be processed through scrappage schemes

    Quote Originally Posted by spacein_vader View Post
    I'm not saying they have to be exotic, but they do have to be noteworthy. You kind of make my point for me: A 205 GTi is worth money because it packed so much punch for its size and the group B connection. A 205 GLD for example is worth buttons because it has no interesting features. So pointlessly saying there are only x many 205s left doesn't differentiate.
    Because the car in the OP is worth a few grand,just like that Chevette. The same goes with the MG Metro that friend had. It was one of the very rare higher performance ones. But even the bog standard model is rare - well under 200 left.

    The Standard 10 is noteworthy since it was one of the last models produced by the Standard Motor Company:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Ten

    The car was in mint condition. A 60 year old car in this damp climate would not be in that kind of condition if not looked after,so by extension is very rare. The Standard 10 won ralleys too.

    Doing my research the 1959 model was probably amongst the last production batch as it was replaced by the Triumph Herald soon after.

    If you inherit a car,which the car in the OP probably is,then it is unlikely people would know the value of the said car.

    I mean remember the Lamborghini LM002 which was blown up by US soliders - the people in charge obviously had no clue what it was,so wanted it to be destroyed. They didn't think for one minute it was a rare car,bought with Iraqi government assets,which was technically not theirs and was worth over £200000.
    Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 04-02-2018 at 08:19 PM.


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    Senior Member spacein_vader's Avatar
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    Re: Make it illegal for Historic Vehicles to be processed through scrappage schemes

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    Because the car in the OP is worth a few grand,just like that Chevette. The same goes with the MG Metro that friend had. It was one of the very rare higher performance ones. But even the bog standard model is rare - well under 200 left.

    The Standard 10 is noteworthy since it was one of the last models produced by the Standard Motor Company:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Ten

    The car was in mint condition. A 60 year old car in this damp climate would not be in that kind of condition if not looked after,so by extension is very rare. The Standard 10 won ralleys too.

    Doing my research the 1959 model was probably amongst the last production batch as it was replaced by the Triumph Herald soon after.

    If you inherit a car,which the car in the OP probably is,then it is unlikely people would know the value of the said car.

    I mean remember the Lamborghini LM002 which was blown up by US soliders - the people in charge obviously had no clue what it was,so wanted it to be destroyed. They didn't think for one minute it was a rare car,bought with Iraqi government assets,which was technically not theirs and was worth over £200000.
    But not everything rare is worth preserving. The Proton Savvy is rare, not because they've all been destroyed but because they didn't sell many as it wasn't very good.

  5. #21
    HEXUS.timelord. Zak33's Avatar
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    Re: Make it illegal for Historic Vehicles to be processed through scrappage schemes

    Quote Originally Posted by spacein_vader View Post
    But not everything rare is worth preserving. The Proton Savvy is rare, not because they've all been destroyed but because they didn't sell many as it wasn't very good.
    i nearly agree... but the normal wastage or life/rta's/. MOT fails tends to finish off most cars.. the few left ARE worth keeping.

    Austin Allegro.. bloody awful car. But worth keeping a few of
    Tbh the Maestro/Montego range.. utterly crap.. but a few are worth keeping.

    Moving to the actual act of scappage with a factory deal- the factory has to justify the money- It's not a discount, it's not a pre reg allowance for making it a secnd hand car with zero miles. It's a "Scrappage" deal and for the trading standards boys and girls to be happy with that description, it needs scrapping. Companies like Autgreen are them dealt with. Dealerrs use their website to record it's scrappage and they turn up and take it away and it WILL BE SCRAPPED- period.

    Because not all customers are utterly astute to the world, sometimes the thought of £5000 for an old car seems awesome. The actual fact is often that the factory paid £3000 of that, the dealer paid £2000 of that from their margin. If the new car hadn't sold, it might have then been pre registered with the same discount, making it a "used" car with £50000 off the screen price, but an owner on the V5 (normally a business name connected to the dealer but not the dealer themselves). Then they are allowed to sell it secnd hand immediately.

    if the dealer registers is in their own name they must keep it for 90 days before selling it, if they are one of the larger market share brands. Vans have to be kept for less time,

    Either way.. it's a bloody minefield for the old boy with a 25 + year old car that is really worth £1500 to £2000 but he gets offered £5k

    And the scrappage company has to scrap something that's worth keeping in a museum.

    Hence .. SIGN THE GOV PETITION please

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    Re: Make it illegal for Historic Vehicles to be processed through scrappage schemes

    Quote Originally Posted by Zak33 View Post
    ....

    Hence .. SIGN THE GOV PETITION please
    Erm, no, for the reasons given earlier. And some others, including -

    - I don't sign internet petitions, and certainly not unless it's extraordinarily important

    - I don't give out my email address that way.

    But mainly, as far as I'm concerned, what a car's owner does with it, including scrapping, is his businsss.

    If this was a petition to get exceptional, museum-grade RARE and historically significant cars exempted from being scrapped after bring put through this scheme, on condition that they end up off-road, then I'd have a lot more sympathy with it.

    But as it stands, I just don't agree with the petition's purpose.
    Noli nothis permittere te terere.


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    Comrade Moose CAT-THE-FIFTH's Avatar
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    Re: Make it illegal for Historic Vehicles to be processed through scrappage schemes

    Maybe the middle ground is if a classic car is offered for scrap and its rare,the company taking in the trade in have to offer it for sale for a certain period on a major car selling website. If it does not sell within a certain period its toast.

    That way everyone has their backs covered.


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    Re: Make it illegal for Historic Vehicles to be processed through scrappage schemes

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    Maybe the middle ground is if a classic car is offered for scrap and its rare,the company taking in the trade in have to offer it for sale for a certain period on a major car selling website. If it does not sell within a certain period its toast.

    That way everyone has their backs covered.
    Not even that. This is about people that have an interest in other peoples property trying to dictate what those other people are allowed to do with it. How about buying stuff that you cherish rather than dictating what other people are allowed to do with anything and everything you like?

    Just for reference, it does make me sad when classics get scrapped and I would be really sad to see another spitfire get scrapped, however I consider that I have no right to dictate what the spitfire owner does with their piece of history.
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    Comrade Moose CAT-THE-FIFTH's Avatar
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    Re: Make it illegal for Historic Vehicles to be processed through scrappage schemes

    Quote Originally Posted by badass View Post
    Not even that. This is about people that have an interest in other peoples property trying to dictate what those other people are allowed to do with it. How about buying stuff that you cherish rather than dictating what other people are allowed to do with anything and everything you like?

    Just for reference, it does make me sad when classics get scrapped and I would be really sad to see another spitfire get scrapped, however I consider that I have no right to dictate what the spitfire owner does with their piece of history.
    If you have a problem then whine at Zak33 who started this thread you coward. Nope,because you are scared of attacking him since he is a mod.

    If you don't like what I say then stuff it. I will say what I want - it symphocants like you who ruin things for lots of people.


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    Re: Make it illegal for Historic Vehicles to be processed through scrappage schemes

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    Maybe the middle ground is if a classic car is offered for scrap and its rare,the company taking in the trade in have to offer it for sale for a certain period on a major car selling website. If it does not sell within a certain period its toast.

    That way everyone has their backs covered.
    That pretty much works for me.

    I'd add that if the dealer taking it in wants to put it in a collection, or donate as a museum piece, etc, then fine. I don't agree that the dealer should be forced to actually destroy the vehicle. After all, the object of the exercise is to get old, polluting cars of the road. Once that's achieved, does it matter if it's actually destroyed?
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    Re: Make it illegal for Historic Vehicles to be processed through scrappage schemes

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    If you have a problem then whine at Zak33 who started this thread you coward. Nope,because you are scared of attacking him since he is a mod.

    If you don't like what I say then stuff it.
    Easy up, Cat. You're very close to the edge there.

    Badass, you might want to reread how quoting Cat then making that remark reads. I'd be offended too.
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    Re: Make it illegal for Historic Vehicles to be processed through scrappage schemes

    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    Easy up, Cat. You're very close to the edge there.
    No I am not going to out up with this crap:

    This is about people that have an interest in other peoples property trying to dictate what those other people are allowed to do with it. How about buying stuff that you cherish rather than dictating what other people are allowed to do with anything and everything you like
    Did I force anyone to not scrap their car - I only suggested reasons why these cars might be not scrapped based on numbers and personal experience.

    Then I suggested a middle ground.

    Zak33 started the thread and kept begging people to sign the partition,no fact man,obviously has some beef with me probably over some other thread and instead of stating it there,wants to start going on in this one.

    If he has a problem,he can tell it to me via PM and then I will tell him exactly what I think of him.

    Also badass,maybe in your world you insulate yourself with everybody you know agreeing with you. I am opionated and stubborn as a Moose - but so is everyone I know. It comes with the territory. Yet they are my mates. Wow,that never happens,right?? I have been here 12 years,and how many times have I disagreed with people.

    If you don't like what I say,use the ignore function.
    Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 05-02-2018 at 05:27 PM.


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    Re: Make it illegal for Historic Vehicles to be processed through scrappage schemes

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    No I am not going to out up with this crap:



    ....
    Yes you are, at least in that manner, unless you want a suspension.

    You know our rules on insulting other members. Follow them.

    If you want to challenge his points, feel free .... BUT DROP THE GRATUITOUS NAME CALLING.

    Last warning. And you know me, when I say that, I DO mean it.
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    Re: Make it illegal for Historic Vehicles to be processed through scrappage schemes

    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    &Yes you are, at least in that manner, unless you want a suspension.

    You know our rules on insulting other members. Follow them.

    If you want to challenge his points, feel free .... BUT DROP THE GRATUITOUS NAME CALLING.

    Last warning. And you know me, when I say that, I DO mean it.
    Sorry where did I force my viewpoint on anyone??

    This is about people that have an interest in other peoples property trying to dictate what those other people are allowed to do with it. How about buying stuff that you cherish rather than dictating what other people are allowed to do with anything and everything you like
    So show to me one point in this thread,where I have forced anyone to accept not scrapping a car. Once.

    If you scrap this car,I will come around to yours with mates and force you with a big mallet.

    I was trying to support what Zak33 said,and he comes out with this??

    So why is he not moaning at Zak33 for "forcing his viewpoint" on other people.

    Its not my petition.

    I have not even TOLD ANYONE to sign it.
    Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 05-02-2018 at 05:35 PM.


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    Re: Make it illegal for Historic Vehicles to be processed through scrappage schemes

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    Sorry where did I force my viewpoint on anyone??



    So show to me one point in this thread,where I have forced anyone to accept not scrapping a car. Once.

    If you scrap this car,I will come around to yours with mates and force you with a big mallet.

    I was trying to support what Zak33 said,and he comes out with this??

    So why is he not moaning at Zak33 for "forcing his viewpoint" on other people.
    IMHO, you didn't force your opinion .... which is why I suggested Badass reread what he said.

    You are welcome to debate that/ disagree with him / challenge where you said it.


    But drop the name-calling. Do that, we don't have a problem. Continue with insults and ..... you know what comes next.

    It's not what you said, Cat. It's the name-calling in the way you said it.


    Cat, we've had enough chats that you ought to know I both like and respect you. You're better than name-calling. About 15 years modding experience suggests that, right now, you're pretty angry. I suggest walking away, leave it 'til you've calmed down then refute it as we both know you can. Good knows yoh've done it to me often enough.

    If you insist on dealing with it right now, then do so without the insults. That's all I want.
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    Re: Make it illegal for Historic Vehicles to be processed through scrappage schemes

    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    IMHO, you didn't force your opinion .... which is why I suggested Badass reread what he said.

    You are welcome to debate that/ disagree with him / challenge where you said it.


    But drop the name-calling. Do that, we don't have a problem. Continue with insults and ..... you know what comes next.

    It's not what you said, Cat. It's the name-calling in the way you said it.


    Cat, we've had enough chats that you ought to know I both like and respect you. You're better than name-calling. About 15 years modding experience suggests that, right now, you're pretty angry. I suggest walking away, leave it 'til you've calmed down then refute it as we both know you can. Good knows yoh've done it to me often enough.

    If you insist on dealing with it right now, then do so without the insults. That's all I want.
    I get what you are saying,but if Badass has a problem with me he can tell me via PM and be done with it,or add me to ignore if he can't stand my posting style. After all I am only relating situations where people have no clue about the value of things. It happens,otherwise none of those barn finds would happen when some random person finds a Bugatti in a shed a family has forgotten about.

    So should nobody inform them,since "its impinging on their right to be not told anything?". I mean,what??

    I am not sure why he is so worried that someone might be informed that there otherwise seemingly worthless car might be worth a few £1000,or if the trade in is sold to recoup more of the costs than the steel value.

    Plus,one thing this is only applying to good condition cars being traded in. What about all the cars sold directly for scrap to a scrap dealer then?? Or abandoned in a field somewhere. Or broken down for parts?

    Or Clarkson destroying a show condition RHD A610 for the LOLs:

    http://pics.imcdb.org/0is406/a610extrapic3xt8.6170.jpg



    Very few RHD cars made.

    Its not like I suggesting the police should go after these people.


    Those despicable Elk,stealing the pond weed!

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