Bad batches of car parts rant.

[GoNz0]

GoNz0 bud.. they wont gang up on you.

it's not the Spanish Inqusition! You're a customer (ok for a regular high spending one) but you really have to just ask them for help. Keep asking..nicely. Keep saying "it's a great car but it's not working right and I can show you it's not right and I expect more please of a top brand" and keep being nice.

in short - kill 'em with kindness. And everytime they fail to do something right, tell them but persist.

and as Badass says... keep good dated notes.

I kept it together as the 2 guys today we're not complete bellends like the others I have dealt with, at least they had 75% of the clue even though I did have to school them on a couple of things (politely of course), they are now saying Thursdays initial inspection did involve pulling the pipe off and checking for flow but I know whis is BS or it would have been swapped and they would have told me this at the time when I started to argue with the pratt of a service manager.

Anyway they are now realising they have a bad batch, they do not want to fit todays part as it has the identical date and time stamp as one of the others, the 1st was 1 minute earlier. I want them to fit it to see if this one works but I won't find out until later today.

I doubt I will get a loaner as this isn't a warrantied car, more the part falls into a we will fix it and charge BMW UK who will in turn charge the supplier as I was informed by the parts dept, I had to go down this path as the gearbox oil needs topping up each and every time and that is a pig to do, level on a ramp, engine running gearbox oil temp between 30 and 40 degrees C then top up in the near impossible to reach fill plug using a hand pump. It isn't an ideal this to do on a driveway that isn't level to start with.

Of course the alternative is to pay another garage to start this crap all over again but I won't go down that path.

I am slowly resigning myself to take the beast off the road and look into some other problems I need to fix, new vacuum lines all round (about 12 of the bloody things!!!) I have exhaust fumes near the twin turbos so that could be a cracked small turbo, bad gasket or manifold, it will take a couple of weeks to get to the bottom of this given the current weather. After that various suspension parts need doing, you know what I am on about, all the stuff you knew the car would need but didn't tell the wife until you had handed over the cash for the car as I went 50% over budget on the car itself and got away with it

I think if I need to I will buy a cheap ass 3rd party heat exchanger or try and find one from a car being broken that is known to work (thermostat still shut when it is cold) until BMW manage to get me a replacement, or just give up and ask them to top off the gearbox when I fit whatever one I get to compensate me for the run of bad parts.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

I think this has just put me off ever considering a secondhand BMW. Goodness grief you can't even get proper parts for them. What a joke!!

[GoNz0]

I think this has just put me off ever considering a secondhand BMW. Goodness grief you can't even get proper parts for them. What a joke!!

I know, extracting the urine doesn't come close to what I want to blast through the Hexus swear filter

The manufacturer isn't keen on doing a great deal either, but I guess once BMW wade in with this puma case they may take a serious look if they are not already doing so but playing it down to me.

[Zak33]

you're right about not getting a loaner. Would never happen unless they fixed the car full retail and then it detonated.

what we all need to start to understand is that, the complexity is rising on all cars. It's not utterly beyond reach yet.. but it's not far off. The sheer volume of complex interlocked components is making it v v hard to move into DIY repairs.

GoNz0 has a VASTLY better idea about this car than
A) me
B) most of HEXUS
C) some of the BMW garages
D) any other brands garage

And it's not a singular case... many many smaller cars have things that could cause such confusions.

And, if I'm brutally honest.. the constant thrust of improving MPG and CO2 emmissons isn't , long term, going to have saved the world. The vast array of components needed in each car, moved across the world and back before ever being fitted, makes a total mockery of the cars awesome tech stats.

As the esteemed leader of the Labour party noted yesterday, while working out that a crank shaft for a Mini crosses the channel, then goes back across fitted in an engine, and then back across fitted in the car.... every part for every car is like that.

G0Nz0 has now seen at least 3 items for one solitary repair, and meantime the car is using loads more fuel and creating loads more emmissions.. but that doesn't matter now it's passed the test from when it was new.

As I have mentioned on a few threads... sometimes getting a more basic car with allegedly worse fuel stats but inifintely better reliability and easier to fix.. can be a sensible move.

Not that it helps poor GoNz0.... but it's worthy of a thought.

[DanceswithUnix]

what we all need to start to understand is that, the complexity is rising on all cars.

Whilst I totally agree, it sounds like the issue here is a thermostat. I remember as a teenager using a kettle of boiling water and a thermometer to test thermostats on my 1976 mini where they were a common failure point so people just removed them and stuck some cardboard in front of the radiator to get the temperature up.

It seems a bit sad that these things are still causing problems after all these years. I have to wonder if an electric pump and temperature sensor would actually be more reliable than a bimetallic strip and a flap. At least then you can get a failure indication.

[Zak33]

Whilst I totally agree, it sounds like the issue here is a thermostat.

ah but it's not an engine coolant radiator thermostat.....

it's a gearbox oil radiator thermostat.

Now, I've competed in 350 bhp rally cars that are on the limit ... they didn't need any more than an oil pipe cooler for the box. Cos it's basic engineering.

But this BMW has how many gears? 6? 7? I think it's 8

becasuse the oil isn't warming up properly it's using too much fuel and might wear the gearbox out.

that is complexity.

In my case I needed to replace the gearbox heat exchanger on my BMW 535d as the thermostat was failed open causing the engine to overcool. In turn this stops DPF regenerations, overfueling as part of the warm up cycle resulting in crap MPG on top of the other issues.

[GoNz0]

you're right about not getting a loaner. Would never happen unless they fixed the car full retail and then it detonated.

what we all need to start to understand is that, the complexity is rising on all cars. It's not utterly beyond reach yet.. but it's not far off. The sheer volume of complex interlocked components is making it v v hard to move into DIY repairs.

GoNz0 has a VASTLY better idea about this car than
A) me
B) most of HEXUS
C) some of the BMW garages
D) any other brands garage

And it's not a singular case... many many smaller cars have things that could cause such confusions.

And, if I'm brutally honest.. the constant thrust of improving MPG and CO2 emmissons isn't , long term, going to have saved the world. The vast array of components needed in each car, moved across the world and back before ever being fitted, makes a total mockery of the cars awesome tech stats.

As the esteemed leader of the Labour party noted yesterday, while working out that a crank shaft for a Mini crosses the channel, then goes back across fitted in an engine, and then back across fitted in the car.... every part for every car is like that.

G0Nz0 has now seen at least 3 items for one solitary repair, and meantime the car is using loads more fuel and creating loads more emmissions.. but that doesn't matter now it's passed the test from when it was new.

As I have mentioned on a few threads... sometimes getting a more basic car with allegedly worse fuel stats but inifintely better reliability and easier to fix.. can be a sensible move.

Not that it helps poor GoNz0.... but it's worthy of a thought.

Major development, this mornings meeting resulted in a phone call at half 3, it went along the lines of

Will here, Dwaine took the car out with diagnostics connected and we can report the max engine temp reached was 75, this dropped to 69. Gearbox max was 40 and that dropped to 30 on the open road, due to this we can confirm what you said and the heat exchanger is again defective, we have raised a PUMA report to Germany and we await them replying with the next step. We do not want to fit another unless they say so as we also think this is a bad batch and the one on the shelf has the same production date and time as the picture you had this morning so is probably also going to fail open the 1st time it heats up. Can we keep the car overnight while we wait for a reply?

So the car should run no lower than 88, the DPF cannot regen below 75, the gearbox has a program to make it warm up fast until 30 degrees by slipping and not locking up the torque convertor to help generate heat, so it is fighting to get to 30 all the time wearing it out early. Once at 30 the oil starts to fall into the "zone"
the gearbox normally runs around 70

finally some progress, what happens next I do not know but I expect the car will go off the road for other wok while I wait for a reply

And Zak, I have the same software they have but they don't know that
I bet they wonder why they keep being schooled by me and it turns out I am right.


wish I never sold my 21 year old 328i, it never went wrong, just too small for a family of 4

Whilst I totally agree, it sounds like the issue here is a thermostat. I remember as a teenager using a kettle of boiling water and a thermometer to test thermostats on my 1976 mini where they were a common failure point so people just removed them and stuck some cardboard in front of the radiator to get the temperature up.

It seems a bit sad that these things are still causing problems after all these years. I have to wonder if an electric pump and temperature sensor would actually be more reliable than a bimetallic strip and a flap. At least then you can get a failure indication.

the next model they released had a timer algorithm that blows the engine service light if it doesn't heat up fast enough. I wonder why!

ah but it's not an engine coolant radiator thermostat.....

it's a gearbox oil radiator thermostat.

Now, I've competed in 350 bhp rally cars that are on the limit ... they didn't need any more than an oil pipe cooler for the box. Cos it's basic engineering.

But this BMW has how many gears? 6? 7? I think it's 8

becasuse the oil isn't warming up properly it's using too much fuel and might wear the gearbox out.

that is complexity.

6 speed, bloody thing does the limited 155mph in 5th though, it's a beast! (no I have not tested this theory, good job with the 5mm play in the track rod end I swapped last month)

[DanceswithUnix]

But this BMW has how many gears? 6? 7? I think it's 8

AIUI you don't get 8 gears in the same way that pushbikes don't have a big sprocket with 18 gears. For 8 speed you get a 4 speed box and a 2 speed box in series, like an old 1970's overdrive but software controlled so it is seamless. It is nicely done and I get the impression the patent that kicked modern lots-of-gears automatics off is rather clever, but I don't see how that changes the fundamental here that something needed cooling and that means a thermostat and I don't know anything about thermostats that has changed for perhaps 100 years?

I know what you mean though. The petrol engine in my car has no throttle, and I still find that beyond weird. I got used to it being fly by wire in previous cars, but the butterfly thing for regulating airflow into the engine simply doesn't exist here. It is all done with software control of variable intake valve lift. Damned clever, very good for cutting out engine pumping losses, but scares the heck out of me for whether it will still work when the car is 10 years old as none of these engines have gotten that old yet!

[Zak33]

hey G0Nz0 ... I'm glad you're making progress.

Stay humble
At no point let them think you're feeling superior to them
don't gloat about your knowledge over their knowledge.

Keep them utterlry on side ("we're learning together here guys").. because I hate to say it but you MIGHT end up with a half decent relationship with this MAIN DEALER now, and that is worth it's weight in gold if anything else goes wrong.

[GoNz0]

I don't gloat, I just point out they are wrong and how, such as telling them after talking to the ZF gearbox specialist who pointed out they are wrong and this is how it works, without a smug face, just a this is how it works chaps.
Germany has asked for the batch details of the 3 they have and I am still waiting for news..

TBH i wouldn't want any sort of relationship with this dealership as the attitude totally stinks to begin with, only reason I wound up there was due to having no option other than buying the part there. My relationship is with the parts department for my discount

I have found this with the majority of BMW dealerships I have dealt with in the past, tell them something isn't right with the car (when under warranty) and they still threaten to charge you a diagnostic fee if they find nothing wrong, really helps if they know how to test for the fault in the 1st place.

[Zak33]

I have found this with the majority of BMW dealerships I have dealt with in the past, tell them something isn't right with the car (when under warranty) and they still threaten to charge you a diagnostic fee if they find nothing wrong, really helps if they know how to test for the fault in the 1st place.

that defines most brands main dealers sadly.

[GoNz0]

that defines most brands main dealers sadly.

All bets are off they are trying to say a car that runs below the temp to regenerate the dpf is ok, I'm collecting it and buying another branded part. Done with this.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[GoNz0]

So they are giving me BS, changing what they have said and hiding behind head office, even though I printed a document from the same diagnostics they use saying the car can't regen the DPF below 75 and had a tech drive the car only getting 69-75 Germany say it is ok.

unfortunately the manager came to meet me after keeping me waiting 15 minutes and asked if I was ok, I gave in holding back at that stage and replied at the top of my voice where I had sat right in the middle of the busy open meeting area "OF COURSE I'M NOT F******* OK" and proceeded to carry on from there about the backtracking and lies for 20 minutes.

Going to buy a cheaper part that will probably outlast the bloody car once I get refunded, tomorrow they are sending some paperwork about what they have done and what they have been told, I can use this against them in small claims court.

[Xlucine]

...I don't know anything about thermostats that has changed for perhaps 100 years?

Cars transitioned to wax thermostats (which tend to fail open, which is preferable to closed like the older systems) about half a century ago, but they've settled on those since

[TeePee]

BMW Engine thermostat modules often include a built in electric heater. The idea is that it helps melt the wax and so changes the coolant temperature at which the thermostat opens, so that if you are demanding more performance, it will help stay cool. They tend to be a relatively expensive part.

[Zak33]

All bets are off they are trying to say a car that runs below the temp to regenerate the dpf is ok, I'm collecting it and buying another branded part. Done with this.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

that needs reporting to BMW HQ and then to the RAC or AA news desk And Watchdog.. Because once it needs regen and can't...its in limp mode for ever,