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Thread: Where will the batteries come from? and where will they go?

  1. #49
    HEXUS.timelord. Zak33's Avatar
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    re: Where will the batteries come from? and where will they go?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moby-Dick View Post
    I dont think you even need charging at either end - Depending on your dwell time at each stop would indicate the type of charge you need, if at all. As Far as I know, The only charging the Liverpool run requires is a splash and dash at the Warwick supercharger ( and a full charge at home)

    Sitting in traffic isn't that much of a problem - In the same way stop start tech reduces fuel consumption in traffic, an EV crawling along is going to be pretty efficient ( especially if its one you can tweak the regen on )
    with full climate? id love to see THAT!

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  2. #50
    Administrator Moby-Dick's Avatar
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    re: Where will the batteries come from? and where will they go?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zak33 View Post
    with full climate? id love to see THAT!
    Well you can get 7 day test drives of EV's without too much of a problem ... I await your blog post

    There will be some edge cases today where EV use is not the most practical option , but for me I think they have hit the maturity where going 100% EV is now a viable option for my household ( instead of the 33% currently ) The driving force for me isn't about Saving the Planet or even Saving money ( which I could conceivably do by running my existing fleet into the ground ) , its because I love the technology and enjoy driving them.
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  3. #51
    HEXUS.timelord. Zak33's Avatar
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    re: Where will the batteries come from? and where will they go?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moby-Dick View Post
    Well you can get 7 day test drives of EV's without too much of a problem ... I await your blog post

    There will be some edge cases today where EV use is not the most practical option , but for me I think they have hit the maturity where going 100% EV is now a viable option for my household ( instead of the 33% currently ) The driving force for me isn't about Saving the Planet or even Saving money ( which I could conceivably do by running my existing fleet into the ground ) , its because I love the technology and enjoy driving them.
    @£5 per "tank" it's a great value runner (once you own it @ circa £53000), so you'd enjoy that I think

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    Administrator Moby-Dick's Avatar
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    re: Where will the batteries come from? and where will they go?

    The wife's leaf is already owned Savings in parking alone covered the monthlies and Nissan offered me a good final payment, which I took. Not sure what I'll go for when it comes to replacing the Elgrand & R32 - at the moment , the Kona EV looks pretty capable, but there are some quite handy deals on the Jag iPace too!
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    Banhammer in peace PeterB kalniel's Avatar
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    re: Where will the batteries come from? and where will they go?

    Of course, hyundai come along and actually start offering something sensible..

    https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review...2018-uk-review

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    Administrator Moby-Dick's Avatar
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    re: Where will the batteries come from? and where will they go?

    I've seen a few very encouraging reviews on it - sensible price too.
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    Banhammer in peace PeterB kalniel's Avatar
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    re: Where will the batteries come from? and where will they go?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moby-Dick View Post
    I've seen a few very encouraging reviews on it - sensible price too.
    Yep. I'm annoyed at some journos though - take the above review, they complain about the weight being 1.6 tonnes.. I don't see them complaining about say the Jag XF or F-type weighing more. 1.6t for an SUV is very reasonable, especially a battery powered one!

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    The late but legendary peterb - Onward and Upward peterb's Avatar
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    re: Where will the batteries come from? and where will they go?

    Quote Originally Posted by kalniel View Post
    Of course, hyundai come along and actually start offering something sensible..

    https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review...2018-uk-review
    Quote Originally Posted by Moby-Dick View Post
    I've seen a few very encouraging reviews on it - sensible price too.
    Yes - I may be in the market for an EV in three or four years, so this would be on my look at list. I was quite impressed with the Leaf too, but the range was a bit low for my needs.
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    HEXUS.timelord. Zak33's Avatar
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    re: Where will the batteries come from? and where will they go?

    ok now THIS is sensible..

    when a car's battery comes to the end of it's life, is could be repurposed to store electricity for the grid.
    https://www.greenbiz.com/article/fin...n-and-bmw-grid

    and it will be

    Quote Originally Posted by Advice Trinity by Knoxville
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    HEXUS.timelord. Zak33's Avatar
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    Re: Where will the batteries come from? and where will they go?

    I've editted the title of this thread, because as itr grows, it will become more useful to know the lifecycle of the battery.. not just it's source/origin

    Quote Originally Posted by Advice Trinity by Knoxville
    "The second you aren't paying attention to the tool you're using, it will take your fingers from you. It does not know sympathy." |
    "If you don't gaffer it, it will gaffer you" | "Belt and braces"

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    root Member DanceswithUnix's Avatar
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    Re: Where will the batteries come from? and where will they go?

    Apparently Tesla recycle old car batteries into new car batteries. Interesting comment in this article that Tesla are really a battery company, they just happen to put some into cars.

    https://cleantechnica.com/2018/06/07...in-the-future/

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    Re: Where will the batteries come from? and where will they go?

    Quote Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix View Post
    Apparently Tesla recycle old car batteries into new car batteries. Interesting comment in this article that Tesla are really a battery company, they just happen to put some into cars.

    https://cleantechnica.com/2018/06/07...in-the-future/
    And that will become more common place. The materials in a secondary cell are not 'consumed' - they just become less efficient so they are eminently recyclable - but there needs to be more emphasis on this aspect.
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    Administrator Moby-Dick's Avatar
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    Re: Where will the batteries come from? and where will they go?

    I was quite tempted to get one of the nissan powerwall equivalents for home battery use - Eaton offer them with new packs or recycled cells. Sadly the cost just wasn't efficient ( even though it would allow me power the house with either Solar, or off peak cost energy - the ROI just wasn't there today ) - not to mention having to tidy the garage to make space for it ;-)
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    root Member DanceswithUnix's Avatar
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    Re: Where will the batteries come from? and where will they go?

    Quote Originally Posted by peterb View Post
    And that will become more common place. The materials in a secondary cell are not 'consumed' - they just become less efficient so they are eminently recyclable - but there needs to be more emphasis on this aspect.
    As an engineer that feels a better way, to recycle the old cells into battery making components, make new cells, put them in things properly designed to do the job.

    The whole "how would MacGuyver power the grid" cobbling stuff together doesn't feel like the way we want to be feeding clean reliable power into our hospitals etc. Could make for an amusing episode of Scrapheap Challenge though.

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    The late but legendary peterb - Onward and Upward peterb's Avatar
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    Re: Where will the batteries come from? and where will they go?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moby-Dick View Post
    I was quite tempted to get one of the nissan powerwall equivalents for home battery use - Eaton offer them with new packs or recycled cells. Sadly the cost just wasn't efficient ( even though it would allow me power the house with either Solar, or off peak cost energy - the ROI just wasn't there today ) - not to mention having to tidy the garage to make space for it ;-)
    I looked at this too, but the RoI was 12 years - about the life time of two LiFe batteries at around £1K each!

    Quote Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix View Post
    As an engineer that feels a better way, to recycle the old cells into battery making components, make new cells, put them in things properly designed to do the job.

    The whole "how would MacGuyver power the grid" cobbling stuff together doesn't feel like the way we want to be feeding clean reliable power into our hospitals etc. Could make for an amusing episode of Scrapheap Challenge though.
    Sorry, I meant recycling in general, not just recyclig for alternative use. Effectivly re-manufacturing a car traction battery from the materials from an old one.
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    Re: Where will the batteries come from? and where will they go?

    Quote Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix View Post
    That seems a tad unfair. There were electric cars right at the start of the automotive era, and I think IC engines have moved on way more than electric motors. Really it is the batteries that are key in an EV, we have got to the point that range and charging speed aren't deal breakers any more.

    I think it is unfortunate that diesels got so much development with common rail, which partly down to future emissions regs getting stupidly tight and partly thanks to VW dragging diesel through the mud is now going to be a dead end. Petrol engines are now getting that sort of attention with some amazing tech coming out, shame we couldn't have had it earlier. Just 20 years ago a car with fuel injection and an overhead cam was considered fairly advanced. These days if you haven't got twin cam per bank, variable geometry turbos, continuously variable inlet valve timing (muti-air/valvetronic), direct fuel injection with everything robotized and fly by wire you aren't in the game. But that's what puts me off with modern IC engines, there's just so much to go wrong.
    And don’t forget the catalytic converter, full of precious and rare metals, platinum, palladium, and rhodium.

    Those are recycled at the end of vehicles life, so there is a recycling path. Lead in lead acid cells is recycled. The same will be true for lithium in traction batteries.
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