F1:BAR Fuel Dispute...

[TiG]

Anyone else following this?...

If you are you might be interested in the following URL where BAR are going to release their offical submissions to the FIA for all to see....

http://www.barhondaf1.com/en/index.p...em=1144&type=1

I'm looking forward to seeing what this will show...

TiG

[Rave]

I'm interested too, although as far as I can see so far they've broken the rules. I do think it's a shame they couldn't have suspended the ban until after Monaco though, it's a real pity not to have them racing there. Still, since when has F1 been run in the interest of the fans?

[Shad]

It is a shame because the race stewards were happy and IMO it should have been left at that. The FIA are a bunch of c***nuggets; when was the last time they did anything positive for the sport.

If a car requires a certain amount of fuel to even operate then I think it can be counted as part of the car and thus included in the car's weight, not the weight of the fuel; particularly as it was in a seperate fuel container. Even the FIA admits the rules aren't exactly clear and in such a competitive environment where EVERY team is seeking to gain an advantage, a miss-interpretation of a vague rule should not have been punished so harshly.

Still, if it gives them a chance to so more testing and development they should bounce back stronger

[dkmech]

They can do more development, which will be needed to redesign the car anyway, so that it does not have to rely on fuel being there. But testing is limited anyway. So doubt they can do much more than they planned to already.

[TiG]

bump... this is there now and definitely a very good read

TiG

[midzt]

arn't the testing bans self enforced and optional so BAR could actually just carry on testing, although they may lose F1 political support fom other teams.

I don't see what the FIAs problem is, the punishment is way too harsh, taking away Buttons point and place- deifinately, two race ban, erm OK border line, but continuing to threaten BAR with disqualification from the World Championships is just plain out of order- saying they are bringing the sport into disrepute is just stupid, they are entitled to be angry arnt they?

[Purple]

I would think they would lose testing time, they have signed an agreement with all of the other teams, apart from Ferulebendingarri, to only do a limited amount of testing, losing 2 whole races worth of data and time on the car will be a big blow.

[TomWilko]

It is a shame to see the team get banned, especially after they were cleared by an FIA representative after Bahrain.

However...

They did break the rules, they have given themselves effectively a '20 second' advantage over a race so I believe all in all it is fair. Unfortunately it is very sad for the Brits because our top driver is suffering as a result, probably the final nail in the coffin to be honest to make him leave next year. [Michael or Barri to go by the end of this year, Button takes their seat? Wild but could happen...]

Sad for F1, and I doubt Ferrari would be dealt the same treatment if they were called up.

[Lead_Head]

Latest twist...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/moto...ne/4529603.stm

[Rave]

Screw F1 TBH. It's boring, it's crap, nowadays it does nothing to 'improve the breed', I can't see why all the manufacturers are waiting around to tell Bernie and the FIA to shove it where the sun don't shine. If Ferrari go down with the sinking ship so much the better.

Edit: I really can't see why they don't do it right now. Formula One running with just Ferrari would be utterly hilarious, and there would absolutely nothing the FIA and Bernie could do to stop the major manufacturers forming their own much better championship. Damn I wish I was a shareholder.

[TiG]

It is a shame to see the team get banned, especially after they were cleared by an FIA representative after Bahrain.

However...

They did break the rules, they have given themselves effectively a '20 second' advantage over a race so I believe all in all it is fair. Unfortunately it is very sad for the Brits because our top driver is suffering as a result, probably the final nail in the coffin to be honest to make him leave next year. [Michael or Barri to go by the end of this year, Button takes their seat? Wild but could happen...]

Sad for F1, and I doubt Ferrari would be dealt the same treatment if they were called up.

Tom,

You read the submission they made???....
Read that and tell me its as clear cut as that.

This appears awfully political to me.

TiG

[dkmech]

As far as i understand it FIA did not accuse BAR of being underweight at any part of the race - so they did not have an advantage. They might have had a potential to exploit it, but they didn't. And maybe they were able to run with a bit less fuel than other teams, but not underweight.

As for how bad F1 is - the last race was ace. Imola was fun too, apart from Raikkonen retiring.

[Auran]

I agree with TiG, it is certainly not a clear cut case that they "broke the rules". However, there is a clause about - "If in doubt consult" - hence the bit about lacking transparency. But, and this is the key point - the FIA have known about the seperate fuel cell to keep the car in working order from the start.

Thus this is clearly a case of them waiting for an excuse to try and bully one of the potential breakaway teams into backing down and accepting there rule of law. But, the word is that this has merely hardened their resolve to wrestle control of F1 away from MM, BE & Ferrari.

Personally I would not be sad to see the demise of F1 in its current format. The only thing that has helped to make things even remotely interesting is the fact that Bridgestone haven't managed to get a tyre that both qualifies and lasts through the race. Imola was a bit of a fluke based on Ferrari's / Bridgestones circuit knowledge and the raceday conditions. Thus the Michelin teams have been able to fight it out more, as they have been closer together.

Don't get me wrong I usualy make sure I'm around to watch the race, well the start and bits of the race while I potter round the house doing chores or eat lunch. But I don't watch it as avidly as I used to or as much as I do Moto GP, Touring Cars or Rallying.

[schmunk]

I think having a single tyre supplier would help keep the teams more competitive. I presume that Bridgestone wouldn't be too keen to relinquish control to Michelin though...

[TomWilko]

Screw F1 TBH. It's boring, it's crap, nowadays it does nothing to 'improve the breed', I can't see why all the manufacturers are waiting around to tell Bernie and the FIA to shove it where the sun don't shine. If Ferrari go down with the sinking ship so much the better.

Edit: I really can't see why they don't do it right now. Formula One running with just Ferrari would be utterly hilarious, and there would absolutely nothing the FIA and Bernie could do to stop the major manufacturers forming their own much better championship. Damn I wish I was a shareholder.

...Thanks for this, and how exactly does it relate to BAR being kicked out of the next 2 races? Ahh thats right, it doesn't, its just another same old same old rant at F1 saying its rubbish...I don't know how anyone, if they have watched each of the 5 races so far this year can call it boring.

I would also like to know how it doesn't 'improve the breed' when we now have engines that are nearly as, if not as powerful as last years model but now are far more durable in most cases and last 2 complete Gran Prix's. The aerodynamics on the cars have been vastly reduced, which, if it wasn't at the technology's leading edge, how would they still be able to set lap records at many of the tracks they still go to? I am not going to go on and start talking the technology available in the tyre's, the driver safety, the electronics and all other elements in these cars that make them like no other...

Tom,

You read the submission they made???....
Read that and tell me its as clear cut as that.

This appears awfully political to me.

TiG

No I've not seen the submission statement, just mainly picking off the many story's I have heard/read and the interviews seen around the paddock. Have you got the link for it?

I've read a few more articles on it since yesterday and it is being suggested quite a lot as more of a punishment on Honda because they are one the teams driving for the GPWC to be formed. Martin Brundle's piece at the weekend was very interesting when he had an F1 fuel tank and was talking about it. Max Mosley has said he is thinking of bringing an inspection rule where any of the top 8 cars can be pulled to pieces after a GP to inspect for technical irregularities.

Really am struggling to make my mind up whose side I am on, it has slightly tarnished what is an amazing start to the new Formula 1 season, 5 rounds gone, 3 different winners...overtaking appears to be back on the bill for the drivers who are daring and for once it doesn't look like the Championship will be wrapped up before Silverstone!

[schmunk]

He's got you there, Rave.

Now, I think you're needed in this thread...