Hmm, Gatso Deaths

[[GSV]Trig]

Makes you wonder doesnt it...

http://www.topgear.com/content/news/stories/466/

[Big RICHARD]

Makes perfect sense! How many times do you drive along a 30 road, looking at your speedo, rather that the road?

You should have your eyes peeled for kids running from behind parked cars, but you don't want to get gatsoed on our journey!

Speeding kills

We love gatsos!

[5lab]

yeah i recon its a bs stat that they've twisted to make it say what they want. truth is gatso's make people slow down, which probably saves lives

[Lowe]

It's well known that the stats have always been twisted in this manner. Tis just a case of interpretation depending on which side of the fence you sit really.

The ABD do however make a very valid point and if you read into it a bit more you can see that the Safety Partnerships have been pulling some very dodgy tricks (like grouping Killed and Seriously Injured statistics together to make the number look bigger etc) to try and sway public opinion to their cause...

[Big RICHARD]

Originally posted by 5lab
yeah i recon its a bs stat that they've twisted to make it say what they want. truth is gatso's make people slow down, which probably saves lives

But if you are making sure you are under the speed limit at all times, you are not looking at the road! So you won't see the pedestrian you are about to run over.

[TiG]

Erm so you mean to say you drive without ever looking at your speedo?. You have to look at your speedo when driving whether you are doing 30 or 60 or 70 dependant on road you are on.

Sure focusing exactly on speedo's for long periods of time is bad, but who does that. A quick glimpse at speedo's takes fractions of a second, its not really an issue and certainly takes less time/brain power than changing the radio, talking to a passenger, speaking on a mobile phone, smoking a cig while driving etc.

Maybe you need to considure what the rest of the idiots are doing on our roads before you concern yourself with something as tiny as checking your speed need gatzo's

TiG

[Nox]

yep, but gatsos _make_ you check your speedo - taking your eyes off the road very briefly at the site where lots of accidents have happened... and they expect accidents to drop because of this?

Nox

[Lowe]

Problem is TiG, a quick glance at the speedo gives you a rough idea of your speed. Are you saying you can tell the difference between 33mph and 30 with an absolute split seconds glance? Course you can't.

So, you either take a longer look, or you brake just to be sure you're not going to get done...

[J4MES]

i'm with the ABM on this one - i'd be a safer driver (not faster) if i wasn't constantly looking for yellow boxes or hidden white vans, rather than potential 'hazards'

so i guess i would be faster, but safer neverhteless

[[GSV]Myocardial]

I think the articles got less to do with car drivers as to do with the way that the public are being educated and the way that the police are using their powers.

There seems to be a great trend to go after generally law abiding people, who commit minor misdemenors, although not safe in some ways they are far less dangerous than people who are uninsured driving a cars thats maybe got a dodgy MOT etc. I know it's of little consequence to an injured party but if the person isn't even insured then u stand no chance of getting any financial help.

And the scumbag who does it might get a year inside, if that. They come back out and they don't care so they grab another car and jump back in. Doesn't matter to them whether they've got a license or not !!

A bit more money spent on having actual policemen about would a: make people feel safer (at the end of the day, crime isn't as prevalent as it sometimes seems) b: they might also improve their community relations and solve a few more of those crimes due to people giving up a bit more information.

It's more to do with the general trend in moving away from crime prevention and education to detecting all minor offences and it's unfortunate that more serious crimes are going to take more man hours. This obviously doesn't look as good on their crime resolution/prosecution sheets whereas they can convict several motorists for doing 10mph over the speed limit, get the conviction and add 10x more convictions onto their books.

I think it boils down to priorities, I'd rather the police spent more time on cracking some of the more serious crimes rather than their seeming total reliance on cameras to catch speeders.

Saying that I've seen a very good speed camera when I travel up the M11, right near the North Circular. Its clearly visible, not at all hidden and enforces the speed limit before an area of diverging and converging roads. It's well placed and doesn't put anyone in danger from not noticing it.

One thing I'd still like to see is more appropriate placing. I live on and near 2 of the busiest roads in the area, namely the A13 and A127, theres been numerous instances of speed cameras appearing in rather peculiar places, and another case of 2 hidden cameras, one has been cut down by the police and the other had to have all the signs removed from round it. Another waste of money and resources imho, neither really served the purpose of increasing safty as there was never a high casualty figure for that area. But about a mile up the road, theres a place where there has been many accidents but no camera. Bother solely placed for revenue collection purposes, NOT safety. Thats the real problem i feel !!

Anyway all this discussion is only personal opinion as with everything, some are gonna feel that the camera is the best thing since sliced bread, others are gonna think their bad. But atm it seems like what the minority think is the thing that will be taken seriously. Most people are going to want a more rounded and pro-active police force, not just one that mounts a few cameras and sits back and tries to police the streets from the comfort of their secure compund

[Russ]

Originally posted by Big RICHARD
But if you are making sure you are under the speed limit at all times, you are not looking at the road! So you won't see the pedestrian you are about to run over.

im learning to drive, and i glance for 1/4 sec every minute or so to check im doing the speed limit or under, and i alwasy am, i have hardly any experience, so if people struggle to watch the road and there speed maybe they shud walk to work?

[TiG]

Originally posted by Lowe
Problem is TiG, a quick glance at the speedo gives you a rough idea of your speed. Are you saying you can tell the difference between 33mph and 30 with an absolute split seconds glance? Course you can't.

So, you either take a longer look, or you brake just to be sure you're not going to get done...

Sure I can, I also know how my car feels when i'm doing 30, 40 and 70mph, sure not exact but certainly within 5mph or so. I personally don't see the problem, whenever i get into a 30 limit I always set myself to 30mph, and just keep my foot still.

It just keeps a steady speed and allows me time to look out for kids chasing footballs etc.

The stats are going to be bad near gatzo's for more reasons than just checking speed. You've got to remeber most incidents involve non drivers in most accidents anyway, which is where the gatzo's are.

But we're not really talking about safe drivers in these stats anyway, the reason people are checking their speed is because they are probably doing 40 in the 30 and have to break hard to make it through...

TiG

[Lowe]

Originally posted by TiG
Sure I can, I also know how my car feels when i'm doing 30, 40 and 70mph, sure not exact but certainly within 5mph or so. I personally don't see the problem, whenever i get into a 30 limit I always set myself to 30mph, and just keep my foot still.
TiG

Notice how I said the difference between 33mph and 30. One will get you a ticket in the West Midlands, one won't. A quick glance down at the speedo confirms you're somewhere near 30. But with zero tolerance to speeding becoming a much more common occurance around the country a quick glance or "feeling" your speed could cost you 60 quid.

Myocardial raises some very, very valid points, the most interesting of which to me is the siting of these cameras. Where I live there's schools and OAP homes which don't have cameras next to them.

However on major trunk roads which have fields by the side of them there's countless cameras. One one stretch of road alone near me you can lose your 100% clean license for doing 45mph in a 40 for one mile.

Madness which needs addressing sooner rather than later..

[philz]

Originally posted by TiG
whenever i get into a 30 limit I always set myself to 30mph, and just keep my foot still.

Doesn't always work (especially in higher powered cars). I can be sitting at exactly 30mph and hit a slight bump in the road and I'll be doing 35-40mph instantly from my foot nudging the accelerator.

All the GATSO's in my area serve to do is slow traffic to an absolute crawl. Everyone is scared of doing 30 past them so they play safe and do 20 which causes massive tailbacks.

I can get in my car and drive past every school in Bristol at 100mph and not get flashed cos there are no camera's, yet if I take my cars round the country lanes doing 65mph I'll get the usual 3 points and a fine cos there are cameras policing the "black spots". Now can you honestly tell me that cameras are there for safety and not money making?

[[GSV]Trig]

Originally posted by philz
Now can you honestly tell me that cameras are there for safety and not money making?

Anyone that can is either swallowing all the BS that the pro gatso people are throwing about or they've lost someone due to a speeder and are blinded to the facts by there own loss...


IMHO of course....

[TiG]

Originally posted by philz
Doesn't always work (especially in higher powered cars). I can be sitting at exactly 30mph and hit a slight bump in the road and I'll be doing 35-40mph instantly from my foot nudging the accelerator.

I drive a Octavia Vrs, 180bhp turbo mate, i understand the problem but i don't agree with the way its the looking at the speedo constantly arguement works in this case.

TiG