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Thread: Bigger brakes.. maybe!

  1. #1
    Va Va Voom Lowe's Avatar
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    Bigger brakes.. maybe!

    Well, as we all know the bigger your brake discs are, the quicker you can bring a car to a halt. As standard the Clio 16v and Williams discs are 259mm on the front, and 238mm on the rear. They fit nicely under the 15" rims, and are a pretty good combination that's perfectly capable for the car.

    However, bigger can always be better.

    A couple of Renault tuners offer a 285mm big disc conversion. With a bit of research I found out that the discs they use are from a Renault 21. With a different set of caliper mounts and a bracket it looks like the discs will fit.

    So, a chap on RSC set about making up some brackets. They're being made from HE30 billet alloy so they'll be nice and light. I've already got the discs, so it's just a case of waiting for the bracket and then putting it all together!

  2. #2
    Banhammer in peace PeterB kalniel's Avatar
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    How does that affect rolling momentum?

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    Va Va Voom Lowe's Avatar
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    Bigger disc size means a slight addition to the unsprung weight - that's why keeping the brackets as light as possible is important since this can effect acceleration.

    In general for every 1kg added to the unsprung weight (suspension, tyres, wheels, brakes etc) it's equivlent to adding 4kg to the car. This is why light rims can improve a cars performance dramatically.

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    Banhammer in peace PeterB kalniel's Avatar
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    *nods* But does adding a larger radius disk add more to the momentum than a smaller radius disk of the same weight? Ie, gyroscopic effects, rotational acceleration etc.

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    Va Va Voom Lowe's Avatar
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    Yes - so it can slow you down a touch.

    However the flip side is, bigger brakes allow for better heat disappation, so you get less fade and also a greater breaking force since the disc is physically bigger. It's easier to stop a spinning disc the further from the centre you try and stop it.

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    F.A.S.T. Butuz's Avatar
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    You can never have brakes that are too big

    What calipers you running Lowe? nice set of 2 or 4 pots would compliment the setup hugeley. 1 pot sliders are naff!

    Butuz

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    Va Va Voom Lowe's Avatar
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    Standard calipers. More than up to the job. If money was no object I'd be having a set of Hi-Spec 4 pots, but they're silly money for a cheap and cheerful road car. Also then there's the problem of them fitting under 15" rims. Anything bigger than that and you really start comprimising one of the best things about the car - the handling.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Shad's Avatar
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    You can get plenty of ~280mm kits that fit under 15" rims. More than enough stopping power for a light car such as the Clio. You could use Brembo calipers (from a DC5 or Fiat Coupé) with Tarox 280x25mm rotors with some custom bells and carriers, for example.

    The trouble with single piston road calipers is they aren't great at dealing with heat. It makes for a nice road setup (a lot of Honda guys swap on the Rover kits in much the same way as you're doing) but get it on the track and the drawbacks soon become apparent.

    Spend another £1-200 on some calipers.
    Simon


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    Looser Konan555's Avatar
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    280ish kits fit under 15" rims... depending on the inside face of the wheel. I had to space my wheels out a couple of mm to get the larger setup under without it catching on the spokes.

    As for the bonus of going for bigger rotors and retaining the same calipers, it'll be found in big stops from high speeds or aggressive, multiple stops.

    Generally, the brake force applied by a decent standard setup is higher than the force the tyres can transmit to the tarmac (newtons 3rd law anyone?). And that's what tends to govern your one off stopping distance.

    If you discount the possibility of fade, one way to get the distance down is to improve the calipers. A good set of multi-pistons will improve the modulation and enable an experienced driver to hover around the optimal braking area (actually traveling between rolling and lock-up).

    Stopping distances also greatly rely on the balance of the car under braking, so suspension all comes into it.

    By discounting fade, I'm assuming we're not talking about a run down metro with 10 year old fluid and 240mm solid discs. It's quite rare for a modern car in good nick not to be able to bring itself down from 70 without fading. When the brakes are specified, they do consider you may have to stop with 3 passengers and a boot full of luggage from 70... not to mention towing.

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    Va Va Voom Lowe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shad View Post
    You can get plenty of ~280mm kits that fit under 15" rims. More than enough stopping power for a light car such as the Clio. You could use Brembo calipers (from a DC5 or Fiat Coupé) with Tarox 280x25mm rotors with some custom bells and carriers, for example.

    Spend another £1-200 on some calipers.
    Brembo's aren't easy to fit to Renaults because of the grefi of the , then there's also the issue of the master cylinder. All Brembo calipers are matched directly to the master cylinder on the car that they're designed for. Putting it on another car can have some rather unwanted results, such as only being able to stop once, then finding that the calipers have drained the master cylinder completely, leaving your pedal hitting the floor!

    Believe me, I looked into Brembos (best mate used to be Brembo UK don't forget) and the cost/return factor just wasn't worth it. I'd also need new rims too.

    The 285mm set up on standard calipers will be more than enough for a fast road application like I'll be using. Apparently though I'll be needing an 8mm spacer for each front wheel and some longer bolts though, since my particular alloys don't let the kit sit under it.

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    Looser Konan555's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lowe View Post
    Apparently though I'll be needing an 8mm spacer for each front wheel and some longer bolts though, since my particular alloys don't let the kit sit under it.
    Been there. Ground that

    I've saved a very small amount off the caliper plus spaced the wheel out 3mm. Flat out refused to go robbing 16s off a mondeo again


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    But Why's It So Cold?. jon bda's Avatar
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    Smile

    Hehe, got good old Princess 4 pots and 257mm discs for my Mk1 in a box here somewhere . Also got a set of rear calipers from a Willy Clio stuck in the boot of my car if anyone needs them!.

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    Senior Member Shad's Avatar
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    What about robbing the MC from a larger Renault?
    Simon


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    HEXUS.timelord. Zak33's Avatar
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    Lowe....reason for increasing size of disk is normally because you can get better quality disks and calipers for it at the larger size, cheaper.

    ie Astra Mk3 1.6 (like mine) straight up to Cav 2.0 Calipers and disks to match, very cheap, easy to find and the disks came in lots of grooved options.

    BUT....if you already have good size calipers, i gotta ask....

    /cough


    /drum roll

    Have you tried getting a proper set of pads for the standard calipers, and going to a slightly higher grade fluid?

    Dont go mad on racing fluid, as it will eat your brake seals and you'll be saddened by the impending crash but good pads are worthy....oh so worthy

    Do Mintex or Pagid make anything for your car.

    And please....dont mention those funny greenstuff things

    Quote Originally Posted by Advice Trinity by Knoxville
    "The second you aren't paying attention to the tool you're using, it will take your fingers from you. It does not know sympathy." |
    "If you don't gaffer it, it will gaffer you" | "Belt and braces"

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    Va Va Voom Lowe's Avatar
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    I'm running Brembo Sport drilled discs with unknown pads up front at the moment. I think they're AD Blue's but I'm not sure. Doll will know. I've got a set of Brembo's Gold pads to chuck on, but when the discs were new they wouldn't fit - the pads were a tad too tight.

    It's running Motul's RBF600 brake fluid, so there's no problem there.

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    F.A.S.T. Butuz's Avatar
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    Zak is right pads make a massive difference!

    Try Ferrodo DS2500's - amazing for fast road and a bit of track. Best bads around. (brake dust is a bit nasty tho)

    Butuz

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