which case

I want to replace my 3 years old jeantec fusionlight with one of the following cases that i have rolled my eyes over so many time...and they happen to be in stock today according to scan website!

• Thermaltake Tsunami Dreamhttp://www.scan.co.uk/Product.aspx?WebProductId=763580
• Antec 900 - Nine Hundredhttp://www.scan.co.uk/Product.aspx?WebProductId=501972
• Coolermaster CM-690 V2 Dominatorhttp://www.scan.co.uk/Product.aspx?WebProductId=644041

I prefer case with side window.

Suggestions/comments plz? :help:

Go for the Antec 900 the other 2 look like they wanna go and paint their toe nails..:)

Both the Antec 900 and the CM-690 are great cases and come highly recommended.
Probably with the 900 you get better airflow but it might be a little noisier than the 690. Since I prefer low noise I would go with the 690..

thanks for reply,

I really like antec 900 but what about wire management? jeez, i was looking through gallery of antec 900 in hardforum, dear me, some of them totally murdered their inside case, wires were everywhere!

I personally have the Tsunami Dream and having owned 20+ cases I can safely say its the best quality I have owned. Really easy to open up, extreamly solid, great airflow and well placed cabling. The hdd caddy is a breeze as are the rear ports.

Despite its detractors... one of my older gaming rigs uses that very same T'Take Tsunami.
It's a damned fine case IMO, with excellent cooling - which of course is important in a gaming rig :)

But that said... if I'd had a similar choice as you now have at the time, I'd have chosen the Antec Nine Hundred instead ;)

Thanks for the suggestions guys,

@hamd01: do you own an Antech 900 case if so i like to hear your opinion about it.

I do prefer the appearance of the Tsunami Dream over Antec 900, it looks "sexy" somehow.

Why picking out a case have to be so hard!

Going down a slightly different road how about one of these http://www.scan.co.uk/Product.aspx?WebProductId=885999 admittedly you can buy 2 of the other cases for the same money but hey it is very sexy.

Or perhaps the NZXT Tempest (this is more reasonably priced £69) http://www.ebuyer.com/product/144802 or the the NZXT Lexa which comes in different flavours from £69-80.

If I had to make the choice from the three you list it would probably be the CM690 built my brothers PC in one earlier in the year easy to work with, cool running and decent cable management, not sure the 900 offers £10 more in features or quality.

@ Webby;

well, I only have been looking at cases on Scan website. So i had a look at your link on NZXT case, and my jaw just dropped. It has side window, comes with fans, lights, etc and it got nice review as well. I will look at few more NZTX cases on ebuyers webiste, if nothing else strikes me, I will go for that case because it meets my need as said above and free delivery on ebuyers!

So thx Webby! :bowdown:

I just ordered it from ebuyers woohoo! man, free delievery within 5 working days.. :confused: lol

Yeah the 5 days will probably not be they are pretty good with getting the orders out fast.

And glad I could be of service, take some photos as you build it and post them on here so we can see it in all its glory :)

lol, i was terrified by not having it till friday ( or they said so to scare me! lol) so i changed the shipping to tuesday lol :angst:

Another reason that encouraged me to get this case is that everyone seems to have thermaltake, lian-li, coolmaster or/and antec so i guess i just want to be different but that case does look "delicous".

I will post some pictures when i migrate my components to that case but first, i need to find a decent camera...:O_o1:

I would save some more pennies and get the Antec 1200 instead.....

Um he is going for a £70 case how is he going to save money going for an Antec 1200 which unless you know of a really good deal costs £115?

I dont want to spend too much money on a case to be honest. I wanted to spend between 60-70+ quids on a case that's why the cases i listed dont go beyond 80 quids if you notice.

Before I even posted this thread, I really like to go for CM-690 cause i read few threads on chassis and staffsMike suggested CM-690 for most of them if not all!. Shame that it doesn't have a side panel window else I have brought it without asking for your opinions on this thread.

Hehe, I viewed the Silverstone Fortress case that Webby linked to and as soon as i saw £158, i closed it. It all comes down to money and that is one of the things that im short of.

Being a student, univ next year :-)

Yeah the Fortress was really a joke :) I never expected you to really consider it.

Thermaltake have a new V9 case series coming soon, these look like updated Antec 900s but with better layout and room.

Maybe a thought

LOL @ Webby, that was a good joke, i did laugh though, sort of like "pfff..."

@ Brewster, i just had a look from their website, Thermaltake V9 looks very stylish, at $139.99. I wouldnt' buy it though lol->money.

I wish i can buy steel and design then build my own case lol, that would be awesome!

The case came this afternoon and the box looked masssive, the case itself is bigger than the picture in the box and i love it! Thing is it is pretty heavy, 11.2kg just itself!

I will post some pics tomorrow since i haven't done any cable management and i will get a new psu (tomorrow!) since the cables are not longer enough to go around and there are not enough connections.

I will play with the fans ( 6 intotal!) since it's a bit noisy for my taste but it has good air flow, my average temp has dropped from 53 to 45. I think the main problem is the fan on the side panel, it makes a noticable amount of noise. Im considering getting a fan controller...more money to spend lol.

Nice, post thoes pic :)

And I fully agree with you on the Fortress it's lovely looking, the only thing that stops me getting one is the price tag.
I know it's probably worth every penny of that £158 but personally I cannot justify spending that much for a new case which in all honesty I don't need.
Even if I was sans case then I would spend half the amount on one of the antec or cm cases.

PS you say the side pannel fan is noisey? check to see if it's viberateing the window.
fan sound generally comes down to 3 factors in my experence
1- fan speed, the faster it is the more air it moves but the more sound it makes.
2- fan grill, some grills are better than others, sometimes they can add quite a bit of sound ie the fan is quiet but the air being sucked through the grill makes more noise than the fan does.
3- Frame vibration, this effects cheap fans more than expensive ones, flimsy frame and unbalanced fan blades can cause a lot of vibration in the frame which will be transfured into the case when screwed down.
When I first converted that old server case I'm using I got some very cheap fans from scan which while moveing an ok amount of air where very bad for vibration, just holding one in my hand while on made it very quiet but I could feel the vibration and if I stood it on the floor it would actually "walk" about.
I've since replaced all the fans in my case now, the differnce between a Scythe S-FLEX and thoes cheap ones is so noticeable by just the feel, the S-Flex is far heavier the frame is very solid and doesn't twist or flex, which the cheap ones did. It's a real noticeable differnce between a £12 fan and a £2.50 fan :rolleyes:
That said you don't need to go to the high end many of the fans around the £6 mark are very good :) but please check the vent sound before you go spending cash, if it's the vent makeing the added noise then an expensive fan will not help.

I've wandered a bit here but my basic message is check the fans fully before spending more cash, check for vibration, quality, speed and vents.

Finally you can quite often get away without a side fan, unplug it and check the temps (esp graphics card) if there's no real differnce then you might want to consider just removeing it.

@Pob225:

Wow, thanks for the extensive advice!

What i have in mind is to get a new psu today, Corsair 520W HX modulars, it has good review on spcr and everyone seems to recommend it.

Then I need to sort out cable management (or attempt to!). When that done, I will use fan one by one and combine them to see which setting give me best air flow with noise level. Tbh, i don think i will need to use all 6 fans.

I got a 8600gt came with a passive cooler ( a big heat sink) and it's the hottest component/peripheral in my pc. Nice thing is that the side panel fan faces like at 90 degree to it so it does help.

I own an Antec 900, fantastic case... its a menacing looking thing to. Lots of space for expansion and good air flow although if you do decide to get one the front is all mesh so you may need to make yourself some dust filters, your mum's old tights work a treat lol!

Zadock, did you rad the thread or just the first post? He has bought a NZXT Tempest and should have photos up soon :)

Cd, is the case to noisy from fan noise, air turbulance or rattling? If yuo susspect that it is air turbulance or general fan noise then the easiest option (if the fans have 3 pin connectors) you might want to consider a fan controller like this http://www.scan.co.uk/Product.aspx?WebProductId=683697 or http://www.chilledpc.co.uk/shop/prod...roducts_id=522 of course the alternative is to buy 6 :o new quiet fans but as Pob mentions if it is from a fan grill then changing the fans will not help as much as you may like. My personal feeling is that you might want to take off the side panel fan first if that solves the noise issues then you will need to decide if its the fan or fan grill thats causing the problem, not sure what the fan gill construction is like for that window so if you get a chance a photo would be nice ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Webby

Zadock, did you rad the thread or just the first post? He has bought a NZXT Tempest and should have photos up soon :)

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Indeed we should.

:handbag:


Oh and any thread we post in is rad. :P

sorry guys, no photos as yet, i was held up in london today, thx to tfl :angst: and by the time i got back to the station, i missed the bus so i havne't got time to play with the case ( just got in 30mins ago) :mad:

I however got my power supplier :). The psu is big also...why everything must be big these days!? LOL

ok, so i have fitted the spu and attempted cable managment ( dont take my word for it! :stupid:), but i think it is still erm wrong lol.

And i have taken some photos too, here go:
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/d...1/DSC02982.jpg
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/d...1/DSC02983.jpg
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/d...1/DSC02984.jpg
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/d...1/DSC02985.jpg
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/d...1/DSC02992.jpg
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/d...1/DSC02993.jpg

At one instance, i used only 1 fan and as you could guess, there was vibration, when i put my hand to the case, i felt it! And that fan wasnt the side panel fan, that one was at the back of the case.

Im having 3 fans on atm so its pretty noisy. I dont know what next, fan controller or aftermakers fans or both!

Thanks for the advice so far, i used the (thank) button to do that as i just found out about it few mins ago! lol.

P.s. I said side panel fan was noisy but perhaps because it was closer to me than others. Imho, they are all pretty noisy to me!

@ Pob255:

You mention 4 factors: vibration, quality, speed and vents

Vibration: yes, it is there
Quality: cant decide
Speed: not too sure, i say it contributes to noise level since when i turn on pc, it's reasonbly quiet (not 100%) then gradually it gets noisier
Vents: not idea, how do i go on about checking vent noise?

The fan speed contributes to the noise because of 2 things first more air is being moved and you can hear it moving (turbulance) the second thing is the faster the fan is spinning the more noise it makes from its bearings.

Good quality fans have better bearings and so are quieter at higher speeds however you do not eliminate the turbulance noise.

What Pob meant about vent noise is that the added turbulence generated from the mesh or grill can make more noise than you may expect.

One other thing you can try is to get vibration dampers to mount the fans but these often come with the better fans and having better quaility fans will make significantly more difference than any silicon mounts.

The fan that you took a picture of has a 4 pin (molex) connection if you get a fan controller you will need to replace the fans as well as most if not all fan controllers use a 3 pin fan connector (or 4 pin PWM)

If you want a nice quiet case then a fan controller and some new fans may be in order, Yate Loon D12SL http://www.chilledpc.co.uk/shop/prod...products_id=48 £4 each plus a fan controller, so about £50 for the lot. You could get away with less fans couple on the top and one on the front will probably be sufficient.

As to the wiring you should be able to route the main power cables up behind the motherboard tray and come out of the holes to the right of the motherboard, eqaully you could route some of the other cables this way as well.

ARRRRRGH I was almost finished on a long responce when I opened a new tab to double check a fact and firefox crashed :wallbash: So I'll break it up this time


Well the first thing to do is becareful of camera shake, that's why your first two pic are blurry, most digital cameras have an option on them to take multiple shots, ie every time you take a picture it actually takes 2 or more always handy as one will often be better than the others. ;)

You need to keep working of the cables, it is a bit of a mess there, try takeing off the both the side panels then you should be able to run the power cables for the motherboard behind the motherboard tray and feed them back through the holes in the tray so they are not snakeing up over the motherboard.

You can safely fold a ribon cable through 45 degrees and more than once along it's length, with a bit of planed ribbon cable origami you can generaly get them laying flat along the sides of the case which can help keep things neat.
Just don't fold, unfold and refold in the same place as then you can break the wires, so plan before folding.

Once folded you can then use bits of double sided tape to hold them down.

If you have two drives next to eachother off one cable (a master and slave) you can tuck the excess length inbetween the two drives to keep it out of the way.

If you have excess length you can fold the ribbon cable back over it self (so it looks like a flatterned S from the side) you can secure the fold and keep it flat by wrapping tape around it.

I've found once you learn how to fold ribbon cable it can then be far eaiser than round IDE cables simply because round ide cables are not very flexable.

Zip ties are good for tieing cables together in bunches or tieing them to the case to keep them neat, if you don't have any to hand then don't worry too much a simple bag tie work just as well (and you should have a few kicking about from all the packageing ;) )

One main thing is that I find cable tidying is a more of an art form than a science, you may have to uncable half or more of it and start again and do it more than once to get it right.

Now on to the 2nd part and I see webby has already made a reply

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Webby

The fan speed contributes to the noise because of 2 things first more air is being moved and you can hear it moving (turbulance) the second thing is the faster the fan is spinning the more noise it makes from its bearings.

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Actually there is a third thing, balance and vibration.
Higher quality fans are made with denser less flexable plastics and tighter tollerences on the molding on the fan blades, sometimes they go through 2nd balanceing process where material is shaved off the blades to thurver improve the balance.
The more unbalanced a fan the more it wobbles as it spins and a weak frame alows for more twisting which adds to the wobble and this is transfured into the frame of the fan as vibration.
One simple and extreem experiment you can do here is to break off one blade of a fan and you'll notice that the vibration and sound greatly increases (don't do this on a fan you want to keep as breaking off a blade does effectively destroy it)

Quote:

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Good quality fans have better bearings and so are quieter at higher speeds however you do not eliminate the turbulance noise.

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I find that bearings are a bit deceptive, the differnce between a quality and budget bearing isn't as great as you may think, in terms of sound anyway.
Bearing type often plays a greater part in the sound level, but not as much as balance and frame strength does. (also note that unbalanced fan bladed put a greater strain on there bearings thus reduceing there life span)
Higher quality bearings tend to show more in there lifespan than there sound levels, again it's down to better materials and tighter tolerences

There are two main types of bearing, sleeve and ball
A sleeve bearing is 2 tubes one inside the other, often with a single grove running around the middle of each to act as a fluid resurve for the small amount of grease used to stop the two tubes rubbing together. They are more quiet than ball bearings, simpler and cheaper to produce, but have a lower lifespan and when they go the tend to just suddenly sease up.
A Ball bearing is basically the same thing but the groves are deeper and little balls are placed inside them (this is where the name ballbearing comes from) the two tubes rotate on these balls.
They generate slightly more noise than a sleeve bearing and are slightly more expensive to produce, but have a longer lifespan and tend to slowly fail, they slow down and start makeing a grinding noise before totally seaseing up.

Quote:

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What Pob meant about vent noise is that the added turbulence generated from the mesh or grill can make more noise than you may expect.

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Yep right on the money, air being sucked through a grill or mesh can create added turbulence and/or vibration in the mesh/grill

Quote:

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One other thing you can try is to get vibration dampers to mount the fans but these often come with the better fans and having better quaility fans will make significantly more difference than any silicon mounts.

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Umm a silicon compound is often used as an alternative to rubber in vibration dampers as it has a longer life span and is less effected by heat
I do agree that vibration dampers can help to reduce vibration going into the case especially over screws.
I think what you mean is rubber plugs instead of screws with silicon grommets or washers, which is correct.

Part 3

Fan testing and the hunt for noise. (by hand and ear)

First thing to mention here is Beware of fast spinning fan blade and your fingures. I have gained a few cuts in my hunt for trouble fans.
A premptive fabric plaster on a fingure tip can be very handy.

You can safely plug and unplug fans into your pc while it's on (although molex connectors can be very stiff and a right bugger to do) also a 3pin extention cable can be very useful here as it makes it eaiser than trying to reach the motherboard around card and cables.

To test Fans on a molex connector only a good trick is to use a spare PSU or remove your current one and jump start it ( All it requires is a paperclip ;) ) then you can connect your fans to the molex connectors while it's out of the case and easy to get to +the only other fan running is the one on the PSU (I still have an old Qtec psu which is used to test molex fans)

The measure fan speed the eaiest way is to have a monitoring program running (eg speedfan or even just go into the BIOS it'll be under "PC Health Status") and plug the 3 pin connector into your motherboard and see what it reads the fan speed as. (although these numbers sometimes lie)
You can gain a rough idea as to how much sound and air is moved if a fan is slowed by very carefully putting your fingure onto the top of the central "hub" and pressing down slightly useing the friction so slow the fan, don't worry if you stop the fan it will not damage it, unless you use so much force you physically break something, but you should stop the fan long before reaching that much force. (a sticky plaster on the fingure can also come in handy here to protect you from a friction burn)
Remember that your fingure tip rubbing over the fan hub is makeing sound, but lissen carefully, it'll be a differnt pitch, your lissening to the fan noise.
Keep an eye on your monitoring program to see how much you are slowing the fan by. 50% of it's normal speed in generally as much as a fan controller can do.

To test vibration, you seem to have gotten off to a good start here, feel the side panels and case around each fan to try to work out whic are the worst offenders (note one bad fan can cause the while thing to vibrate) then unpulg fans or unplug all but one and work your way through them untill you find the bad one/ones.

Remove a fan from the case and simply hold it by the frame will also give you a good feel for the vibration and howmuch the sound will be reduced by if you use vibration damping on it.

To test a grill/mesh remove the fan and see how loud it is the hold it up to the grill/mesh and see how much it effects it.

Be methodical work through each fan in turn, good chance you'll have to take all the fans out of the case to give them a thougher testing.

What you can do about the sound?

Anti-vibration:
well you can buy rubber plugs to replace the screws http://www.scan.co.uk/Product.aspx?WebProductId=487037 but at £4.60 a fan it's a bit pricey

I seem to remember someone here uses whitetac to hold his fans in (it's like bluetac but slightly softer) I've never been to sure about that, I'd worry about my fans falling off.

What I use is hair bands ;) like this http://shopping.erol.co.uk/product/D...-18-Large.html get them from your local chemist or supermarket, the ones with out the metal joiners for prefrence but it dosen't matter much.

Now what you do is cut the in half at the join to make one long length, you can seal the ends with a cigarette lighter, feed it through two of the screwholes of the fan vent, so you have two equal lengths of elastic sticking into the case then do the same with a 2nd hair band for the other two screwholes, now attach your fan by feeding the elastic ends through the screwholes in the fan frame. pull the ends of the elastic tight, then pull on the fan slightly untill you have about 1mm clearence between the fan and the case (you can tie knots in the ends of the elastic but I find the friction holds it in without problems.) Vola one suspended fan for the grand total of about 30p

2nd methord is basically the same but cut each hairband into 2 lengths tie a knot in one end then feed it through the case, so instead of two double ended lengths you have 4 single lengths.
You may need some washers to help secure it as you may find the knot will pull through the screwholes.
Any DIY/hardware store will have washers and they are dirt cheap, just make sure the holes in the washers are smaller than the screwholes in the case, rubber washers would be best here.

Rubber/Silicon Washer or Grommets, the idea here is simple get some rubber/silicon washers (rubber will be black and silicon clear both are a soft materal) now put one on each side of the screwholes of the case before screwing in the fan, the idea here is the both the fan and screw head are held off the case by the washer alowing it to absorb the vibration.
A grommet is basically a double sided washer the fits in the hole it's better than washers as the sides of the screw are also surrounded by rubber as it passes through the case, the down side is the hole need to be larger than the screw so you'd have to enlarge the holes in the case.
The down side to these is that while they reduce the vibration they don't do it as much as a rubber plug or the hair band methord. and they are rather limited with high levels of vibration.

Slowing down the fans.
Depending on the current fan speed just slowing them down can help alot.

For 3pin connectors
Sotfware, you can sometimes use software (speenfan can be setup to slow fans, but it depends on your motherboard compatibility with it to if you can or not) sometimes you can also do it in the BIOS (however from you pic's a see you have a ECS motherboard, I seem to remember they mainly make cheap motherboards so it's doubt full if it has this added feature)
Software can be very hit and miss in my experience.

Fan controller, a very easy way to control the speed of multiple fans, they do range from cheapish to expensive. also have the advantage of alowing you to use more 3pin fans than your mother board has connectors for.
I myself use one of these zalman fan controllers http://www.scan.co.uk/Product.aspx?WebProductId=683697 for £19 it lets you control upto six 3pin fans, it's very easy to fit. It's manual control only so you have to fiddle with the knobs to adjust the speeds, you can also put you cpu fan onto this as well as case fans but I prefur to let my motherboard automatically adjust the cpu fan speed so don't have to worry about it.
You can go up quite a bit in price to something like this http://www.scan.co.uk/Product.aspx?WebProductId=517726
Which you stick inside your case and it adjusts the speeds automatically based on temptures via 4 probes you can wire up to areas of your case.
however I'm guessing £50 is out of your budget.

Resistor extentions
you can get short 3pin extension cables with a resistor on it to slow a fan http://www.acousticpc.com/zalman_3pi...or_56_ohm.html
Dwon side to these is they are not easy to find and you are limited by the number of fan connectors on your motherboard.

For 4 pin molex connectors.
you cannot directly use a fan controler or simular but there is a simple mod you can do to slow down the fans
7v and 5v fan mod, basically fan run off 12volts supplied by the 12v pin of the molex connector
(the yellow wire is +12v, the red is +5v and the 2 black wires are earth btw)
Now what you do here is remove the pins from the molex connector of the fan and swap them around.
simple pin removal tool
To reduce the fan to 5v you swap the red and yellow pins over.
To reduce to 7v you swap the black pin the fan is connected to with the red pin.
Here's a guide http://www.techpowerup.com/articles/other/137
There are hidden down sides to this.
5v, not all fans will be able to run at 5v as it can be just too little voltage for them to start or keep running. (side note, this is why most fan controllers have a bottom limit of 6v)
7v, you get this by feeding the 5v back down the 12v line to generate resistance, which is not always that healthy for the PSU. While you have been very sensible and not skimped on the PSU and got a high quality corsair HX520w so it should be able to cope and not cause any major damage you do run the risk of shortening it's lifespan.


Better Fans
This is probably a good option, although I'd test all the current ones first before splashing out on replaceing the lot. esp as it might only be one or two causeing issuse.
High quality fan are very nice, (I've not used a nocturn fan but I do love the Scythe S-FLEX fans) however they are expensive £12-15 (esp if you need to get 4 or 5 fans) and you can get very good resaults from fans that cost half the price £6-7

Some basic things to remember, the faster the louder, the slower the less air flow.
This is a basic rule that applies to ALL fan reguardless of blade shape and number, although that said blade shape and number does have and inpact of air flow and volume.
Other things that effect the performance are production quality and bearing type (I mentioned the two main type but there are others and veriations in all types)

Couple of rules of thumb,
1000rpm and below = very quiet but not much air flow.
1200-1400rpm = quiet but reasonable air flow.
1600-2000rpm = bit louder but good air flow
2200rpm and above = massive air flow but does make you case sound like a vacume cleaner.
Don't trust the numbers, take them with a pinch of salt. there is no fixed standard here and numbers are often twisted. use them as a rough guide the othe good rough guide is the price, if it's £2.50 it's not going to be any good.

Fan's I've used
mid price, very quite fan, not great air flow http://www.scan.co.uk/Product.aspx?WebProductId=615592
mid price, good well ballenced between air flow and sound http://www.scan.co.uk/Product.aspx?WebProductId=590760
both of these fans are very good for the under £6 low cost, I'm quite a fan of the Sharkoon System fans just don't go for the power one, yes it moves a heck of a lot of air but it's very loud. (it is both the loudest and most powerful fan I've used)

If the top 140mm fans are giveing you trouble I seriously consider the 140mm Sharkoon system fans

The Sharkoon Golfballs used to be very highly recomended on these forums, the 1000rpm ones are very quite but not a great air flow, the 2000rpm ones are a good balanced fan (the air flow and sound are below what I'd expect from a 200rpm fan) both around £7

If you want to splash out on a S-FLEX or Noctua, then don't go for the 800rpm ones, they are next to slient as possible but don't move much air. the 1200rpm or 1600 rpm are much better and still very quiet. and cost around £12-13

Quick question, is the side window held on by screws?

Get yourself a fan controller to control the fans and then you have the best of both worlds.

Thanks all for feedback! I was immensedly overwhelm :) and sorry about the blurry pics :O_o1:, i had to read the manual online to find out how to stop the flash so i could take pics in the dark lol

@Brewster: i wish i could just storm out and buy a fan controller and let it solve my fan problem but i will be kicking myself very hard if i couldn't even get my fan to connect to it and/or the fans stil making noticable amount of noise!

@Webby: all fans come with this cas have 4 pin molex male and female and 3 pins connector to connec to the motherboard. I will take another pic to show it clearly

@Pob225

Quote:

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Quick question, is the side window held on by screws?

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if you meant my side panel window then yes, it is held by 2 screws but i dont need to use screw driver because they have little handle at the end so i can use my hand to hold and rotate them which is pretty handy i think.

There was a html link on "http://forum.***********.net/showpost.php?p=4241&postcount=1", as you can see, i can't really click on it but i guess it bit-tech.net. Was it about fan mod? Because the host server wasn't available ( freeserve! quite old, used to be wannado but orange now right?)

I have all day today so i spend more time with those fans...I determine to get this case quiet so yes, I dont mind to spend more money (but dont wanna break my bank! :stop:), time and effort.

Yes, i was trying to route the 20pins connection from psu to the motherboard but it was rather stretchy and couldn't reach it, i tried this with both holes (next to the motherboard) but i can only connect it when route it directly like the pic shows.

Well if the fans have 3pin connectors as well you are in luck :) A fan controller will potentially solve any fan noise issues you may have without needing to buy more fans.

If I may suggest you plug some into the motherboard headers (assuming you are not doing so already) and check in the BIOS (or use a program like speedfan, Everest or Hardware Monitor) to check how fast the fans are actually spinning, because if they are spinning at 1200rpm and too noisy then new fans might be in order but if they are noisy but spinning at 2000rpm it could be easily solved with a fan controller (or even using the motherboard fan headers if they are controllable, and you have enough.

As to PSU routing the problem seems to be that you have to travel the width of the case as the PSU is upside down (not that you installed it wrong, just that they normally are the other way up) does it rest on the bottom of the case or could you potentially turn it over without totally eliminating airflow to the fan? For the 4pin connector you might try and run it to the back of the case and then up over the back fan rather than round the graphics card. Or you could always buy some extension cables http://www.scan.co.uk/Product.aspx?WebProductId=656145 or http://www.scan.co.uk/Product.aspx?WebProductId=557926 and http://www.scan.co.uk/Product.aspx?WebProductId=557927

Finally I think Pob was asking how the fan connects to the window rather than how the panel connects to the case. I would guess screws or possibly split pins.

ah, thanks for the links Webby about cable extensions and yes, i will plug the 3pin fan connection to the motherboard to monitor the rpm.

Pob was right about my ECS motherboard, i can't control the fan speed via speedfan.

And the fan connects or held to the side panel window by 4 screws. I guess another pic (not blurry :)) can show this.

I will try to turn the spu upside down to see if it helps with the 4pins molex and the main cable else i may have to buy extensions for them. But the fan attached to the psu will face the bottom of the case and no air will get out that way and this is the only fan and way for the air to get in/out of the psu.

Yeah, try turning it over but if the is no way for the fan to draw air (ie it sits on the floor of the case) then don't try it the PSU will overheat and Die :(

You could always cut a blow hole (will in this case an intake) under the PSU so the fan could draw air in from outside the case but buying some extensions would certainly be easier ;)

Talking of extension cables the Akasa ones are longer (and sleeved) which may be of benefit as you could hid the connections behind the motherboard tray and still have plenty of cable to get to the connector (especially the 4pin).

What I ment by my question is "How is the window held onto the side panel?"
It it by some screws around the edge of the window that go through the window and screw into the side panel?
Or is it held in by rivits?
Or glue?

I did ask before, to check that window to make sure it's not lose and rattleing
If it is then it depends on how it's held in to how it can be tightened up.

I'm actaully starting to like this case and considering getting one myself.

PS Just google jumpstart a psu to find one of many guides
or here's another link http://www.clunk.org.uk/forums/guide...start-psu.html

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pob255

What I ment by my question is "How is the window held onto the side panel?"
It it by some screws around the edge of the window that go through the window and screw into the side panel?
Or is it held in by rivits?
Or glue?

I did ask before, to check that window to make sure it's not lose and rattleing
If it is then it depends on how it's held in to how it can be tightened up.

I'm actaully starting to like this case and considering getting one myself.

PS Just google jumpstart a psu to find one of many guides
or here's another link http://www.clunk.org.uk/forums/guide...start-psu.html

---

My mistake :D

Yeah it certainly does seem to be pretty good, think if I had one the would be a vent in the bottom for the PSU (oh and I would need to find somewhere to mount my Rads :)

You mean cut a hole in the bottom for a psu vent? (as in the cm690) if so then I fully agree :)
For a place to put a rad, there's thoes two 140mm fans in the top of the case, looks like a great spot to me ;)

I had another look at a couple of reviews of this case, one of them did mention the window is a bit flimsy as the purspex is a bit thin. also mentioned the motherboard cable length problem.
Looking at the pictures seems like there's a bit of a gap between the psu and motherboard, annoying becuase it could of been so eaisly fixed at the design stage.

I think it is crying out for a couple of simple mods.
-hole cut in the base for psu
-cut away grills on the front fans (they are still behind the mesh front and filters)
-cut a couple of additional holes in the motherboard tray for better cable routing
-replace/reinforce the window.

Ok, so i had another attemp at the cable management! I think I have have improved it this time. I managedto get the main power connection to the motherboard, but i have to twist it pretty hard to get it "point" to the socket then push it in.

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/d...1/DSC02998.jpg

Another shot at the side window panel from the outside:
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/d...1/DSC02994.jpg

After that, i tried to get 4 pin molex connector up the top, so i unscrewed the motherboard and routed it underneath but was short so i couldn't do that.

I can't turn the psu upside down either because it wont fit in. I even tried to take out the metal rack that i screwed the psu into it to hold it but when i turned it upside down, the screw holes wont align. The pic will probably explain it better than i do :D, you can see that there is a thing at the bottom of the case stop me move the psu down further.

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/d...1/DSC02996.jpg

Ah, i know what you mean about the side panel and the window now! Here is my answer:

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/d...1/DSC03006.jpg

so no, they dont use screws or rivet or split wire lol, they are like thin metal clip then bend it to hold into the window.

Talking about origami :D, i though i may show you this hehe, it's been sitting on my bookshelf collecting dusk for years!

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/d...1/DSC03004.jpg

Not sure if it's my psu but the fan at the rear sort of like stop then start then spin fast then stop again...

Much better on the cabling :) in the first pic it's pritty damb good

which fans have you got pluged into what?

EDIT: you don't want to move the psu down thurver as that's going to shorten the lead going to the motherboard.
the reason for fliping the psu over in this situation is so that the motherboard cable is coming out of the motherboard tray side which should give you a little slack to play with.

I plugged the rear fan into the motherboard 3 pins header to check for rpm and it was acting like i said in above post.

So i changed different fans to different headers ( m/b got 3 headers - cpu, system fan x 2) and im a little surprise, as you can see that i got a amd stock heat sink and when i connect it to different header, it spins slower!

The 120mm fan spins at ~1200rpm.

I got a akasa cooler for my cpu, i will probably install that later as it comes with a single fan controller.

The fans are working normal now.

Hmm, so have you found which fan is the noisy one yet? I'm putting my money on the Window one!

The cables look good in the top pic very neat :) and as Pob said the reason for flipping the PSU would have been to get the fixed cables closer to the motherboard, as you have managed to make them reach now that is a mute point :)

If the run the fans in free air (on a table or in your hand, watch out for the blades!) do they make much noise? Also try connecting the same fan to the motherboard and then power it from a molex and compare the airflow (subjectively) if the airflow seams significatly different then the motherboard headers are controlling the fan speed and 1200rpm is not the maximum they will spin at (I would expect 1200rom fans to be almost silent, not quite but almost).

Not to be funny but i notice my hard drive making noisy like disk spinning ...

HOw about me, try to record the noise? :D :O_o1:

I see we posted at the same time Webby! I have tried 2 fans, rear and side window but 4 fans, 2 at top and 2 at the front cause i need to open the top panel lol and i dont know how to do it yet...

I got work at 6pm so i cant test, i will do it tomorrow.

Oh when i tested the side panel window fan, i notice it made noisy like "clicking", it's hard to explain, it's something like when you dip a piece of (writing) paper into the fan when it's spinning.

Good day!

Ok, here is my report on fan testing.

I tested all the fans in free air i.e. holding them my hand and what i have found out that all 120mm fans behave all the same, there is no bad one i.e. one being noisier than the other and the same holds true for the 140mm fans up top. However, all 120mm fans all making the noise i described in above post, i guess it comes from the mechanism of the fan?!. All the fans come with case are sleeve bearing type.

Now come to m/b headers. I found out that 2/3 headers on the m/b are actually working, the third one is either not supposed to report the rpm or faulty. When i connected the amd default heat sink to case cooling header, it sped up! I checked from speedfan, it was about 900<rpm<1000 and it made incredible amount of noise, it was the lousest fan so i switched back to cpu header and it now is running slower and dont make much noise. System cooling header is the stable. This let me to the conclusion that different header has a fixed value of rpm (or voltage)!

The 2 x 140mm fans at the top panel while shifting alot of air, they do make noise too, i say loud noise and when having both of them running at the same time, it gets pretty noisy. Their rpm is about 1050< rpm<1150.

I compared 2 120mm fans, 1 used header in m/b and 1 used 4 pin molex from psu. Well, the fan used m/b header rpm at 880<rpm<910 and the fan used 4 pin ran even slower! How did i know this? I did what you said lol, put my finger into the blade and i wouldnt' do it again even though i used celetape to cover my finger tip. And i also watched the lighting too, the slower spin blade deflected the light further out while fast spinning blade sort of like going throught the light without carrying it out.

<trivia!>
I was rather amused by all this experiments so i tried to work out the speed of the 120mm fan running at 900 rpm and after few calculations (assuming the radius = 60mm), i got the speed at 5.6ms^-1.
<end of trivia!>

So now, i think i need to get a fan controller and replace 140mm fan at top, just one because running those 2 fans at the same time is a bit excessivel. Maybe try out a 120mm fan from the links you suggested.

Im also seriously considering replace my hard driver! (Possibley m/b and a new cpu (amd 3800x2)atm).

Stripping the top panel was a pain in the a**!

I guess, this will be second part of my report! :)

I re-attached two fan cages for the two 120mm fan at the front panel and i notice they make more noise, the reason seem obvious to me that the air got shift through and collides with the cage or turbulance lol.

No Webby, the side panel fan wasn't the noisiest! Just so you know that you lost your bet :)

If your in the market for 140mm fans the, Sharkoon System Fan 900rpm or the Akasa AK-195BL,
http://www.scan.co.uk/Product.aspx?WebProductId=756698 and http://www.scan.co.uk/Product.aspx?WebProductId=876305

You might also consider the Yate Loon D14SL-12 http://www.chilledpc.co.uk/shop/prod...roducts_id=488

If you are considering reducing the number of fans remember that it is always better to pull more air out of the case than it is to push air in. I would probably fit 2x 140mm fans and the rear 120mm and then probably have a single 120mm on the front as an intake or 2 intake but at ~1000rpm.

Oh and for case fans the Scythe Slipstreams are very good, not so good on heatsinks but fine for moving air around in cases.

Thanks Webby! I will look into ordering those fans.

Ok, i just order few fans and other bits from Scan:

-> Coolermaster Aluminum CD/DVD/DVDRW
-> 120mm Scythe S-FLEX SFF21E Silent F
-> 120mm Sharkoon Sys. Fan Midrange 12
-> 120mm Silverstone FN122 Black Fan
-> Silverstone PP04 Cable Extension Kit
-> Zalman ZM-MFC1 Plus Black Multi Fan
-> 140 Sharkoon System Fan Series 140x

I want to replace my white dvd-cdrom white bezel with the black one to match my case because i love it lol.

I want to try out Scythe S-Flex to see what the fuss about hehe.

Sharkoon andn Silverstone fans are recommended so i will see how these fans compete against nzxt fans.

Try to hide the 4 pin molex under the motherboard so i have to resort to the extention kit.

Since i have 6 fans so i guess having a fan controller is like a no-brainer so i picked the zalman fan controller like you recommended.

Stuff will come next week so i willl keep you posted then!

oh lol, if you had put link on 120mm Sharkoon 1000 LED "Golf Ball" i would have bought it, i like those LED, they are pretty! Just found out about it on today-only page grrrrrrrrr....

Doh, but if you want to change an order, phone them up tomorrow morning, I've actually phoned scan about 10min after ordering to change an item and add one on, and they were happy to help. ;)
EDIT: I did mention the sharkoon golfball fans, just didn't link them as I have no direct experience of them, a friend of mine used them to replace the tricool fans in her antec p182 case & a 2000rpm one on her Thermaltake ultra 120 extreme cooler, she love them, but i've never heard them or had one to compair the air output with other fans.

Quick note on the zalman fan controller, it connects to 6 fans via cables aprox 20cm long, ending in 3pin connectors, the first 2 also have a 2nd cable that you can plug into a fan header on the motherboard so you can monitor the fan speed.
It also requires 1 molex connector for power. (just to let you know)

One other thing to note is LED fans, the led's are powered by the voltage, so reduceing there speed by a fan controller also reduces the brightness, not by a great amount but you do see it as you adjust the fan.

Nice idea on trying out different fans :)

I've found front fans are always louder for the asic reason that they are closer to you and in a direct line.
e.g. I've got a sharkoon 120mm power fan at the back of my case and an Akasa 120mm blue LED fan at the front, when side by side turned down to min on the zalman fan controller the Akasa is more quiet, but it the case the Akasa is louder (only when both are set to min, turn it up to max and that sharkoon power fan drowns everything out)
That said it does sound like the square grill on your front fan housings are adding to the sound, depending on how thick that steel is you can probably cut out the square grill with a decent pair of wire cutters (or drimmel but only if you have one, don't go and buy one just for this) given that there's a detachable filter and mesh front panel it will not effect the look of the case any

You could also consider cutting out the rear fan grill aswell and replaceing it with one of these
http://www.scan.co.uk/Product.aspx?WebProductId=221413
lol the listing says "no image available" but it's there on the list page
http://www.scan.co.uk/Images/Product...21413-st-a.jpg

not like I'm trying to encourage to mod your case :innocent:

lol, thanks for the head up on fan controller and fans.

I composed a list of to- do with the case since last nite! Here is what on the list:

-> Take out the fan on side panel window, since the window isnt held securely on the side panel so i thought why not take the fan out, then not only reduce the vibration but also clear the sight to look into the case ( Wires around the fan is killing the pretty sight). A stone kills two birds!

-> Take out the rear fan, and replace with this side panel fan cause it has blue led!

-> :) , cutting out the 2 metal/stell grills at the front panel, lot of turbulance from them.

I dont have a dremel, i need to check out my buddy's shed see what he got for cutting those steel out, they are quite thick!

Maybe put some blutack between the 2 140mm fans up top to reduce the vibration. Im thinking about fan suspension like you described!

I think im gonna phone them up this morning to change it and because my ordered has been delalyed!

Nah, i like this modding stuff, it's fun. I will mod this case until i have what i want out of it. It's a nice case though!

Well if you're open to modding . . . :devilish:

You might want to have a go at removing the side window and making it more secure.
I'd suggest glueing it down
(bolts would probably be better, but it that perspex is very thin then it might be too weak and easy to crack when trying to drill holes in it)
For preference I'd use "UHU All Purpose Adhesive" it's clear, drys soft, easy to use and easy to remove from smooth surfaces.
Make sure it's the solvent version, the non-solvent version is just PVA glue in a tube.
Still use the clips, the glue is not so much to hold it in but to keep it from being lose.

Yeah, probably best to remove the grills in front of or behind the fans dont worry about the grills Pob linked to for the front fans but might be a good idea to have one on the back so that you don't put your finger in it when plugging in cables etc.

For the top fans try some of these to isolate them from the case, http://www.scan.co.uk/Product.aspx?WebProductId=487037 In fact you can use them on all your fans that attach with screws, the Sharkoon golfballs come with them if I remember correctly.

To do the metal cutting a Dremel really is the best tool but as Pob says don't go out and buy one just for that at ~&#163;50 it makes cutting out a few grills a bit expensive, although I guess you could probably get a cheaper one, something like this available from Maplin http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=223458 not going to be as good as a Dremel but would get the work done. Oh and remember to wear eye protection (goggles or glasses, will be the best couple of quid you ever spend if it stops you getting a shard of hot metal in the eye!) when using any power tools.

lol, i done the 2 fans grill at the front panel without dremel! Well, im feeling pretty good! I went to the shed to see what availabe since i know that we dont have dremel then i saw a hammer and a rusted old erm jitsel/gisel? lol i dont know what it's called so i used them to break the mesh. I used sand paper, but my buddy said it was not sandpaper, i can't remember what it called to smooth the edge where i cut it.

The damn camera was out of battery so i couldn't take any pics and i coudln't find the charger (not my camera :O_o1:). I spent good 30mins or so to smooth them! They looked good at the end. I am happy about them.

I will try to get the side panel glue.

Thanks for the feedback as usual! :embarrassed:

Chisel was the word you were looking for :) and the sand paper was probably wet and dry or emery paper.

Glad you got them sorted :) We wait for pictures :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Webby

Chisel was the word you were looking for :) and the sand paper was probably wet and dry or emery paper. or glass paper ;) they are all basically the same, you can use sand paper to file down and smooth mild steel, but the resaults are a bit rough

Glad you got them sorted :) We wait for pictures :)

---

Indeed and we must have pic's :)

I did mean the fan grill only on the rear fan as the front fans have a fliter and the case front in the way of fingures ;)

Webby look back at my giant posts and you'll see my answer to thoes rubber plugs, which instead of costing &#163;5 per fan, costs roughtly &#163;3 (+&#163;3 if you need to buy a cigarette lighter and some m6 silicon washer) for 9 fans ;)

here we go, pics on two front grills :D

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/d...1/DSC03014.jpg
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/d...1/DSC03015.jpg

Still waiting on my fans and controllers to come. Should be here tomorrow!

I also will try to cut out the rear grill, not with chisel (thx Webby!) and hammer this time i dont think lol

I found this on accessories page on scan website, it seems pretty good. What do you think?

http://www.scan.co.uk/Product.aspx?WebProductId=800110

Very nice find for &#163;7 :)
That'll get added to my next scan order :)

Yeah seems to have everything you will need if you decide to go down the rubber mount rather than elastic bands as Pob suggested, just make sure that the fans you buy are open cornered (see the illustration at the bottom of the page to see what I mean by open and closed corners, http://www.chilledpc.co.uk/shop/prod...roducts_id=410) the long mounts in the kit will work on closed corner fans (3 fans worth) then medium will work on open corner (2 fans worth) then short I'm not entirely sure what they are for!

Fans and controller come today! w00t lol. I was so excited so i spent all afternoon to install and reroute the wires.

I was able to route the 4pins from psu under the m/b and added the extention to the top so no wire snake up the m/b any more hehe.

I quite like the sharkoon led golfball, it came with rubber damper and it runs pretty quiet too. Woo, now i see what the fuss about with scythe-flex, it seems like really classy compare to other fans. The box was all wrap up and smell erm like it got straight out from the manufacturer lol. Heavier compare to other fans, shift alot of air but i dont think it is that quiet even though it runs ~ 1200rpm.

But that's what fan controller for, I really love that zalman, it's just nice! The comp runs reasonably quiet now, but not enough light lol. I am pondering between install the CC tube or get 2 more golfball fans because that is the only fan that has led in my case right now. I hate the wires come with CC tube, they are a mess!

Also looking forward to replace my hard drive, it is noisier than my fan when i turn down the voltage fromthe fan controller. Two 140mm fans at top make noticable noise and vibrations when i turn the voltage up. I probably will get the kit i posted above for some rubber grommers with the hard drive and replace the only nzxt fan left, 140mm on top panel!

Other than that, it's alll good!

I found this on chilledpc: http://www.chilledpc.co.uk/shop/prod...roducts_id=912

I may get it for the 140mm fan on top panel. Chilledpc has some nice led accessories as well!

I have found a protential problem with the zalman fan controller (very sorry I didn't know about ti when I sudgested it)
its only 7W per channel (0.58A) ie per fan, while this normally is not a problem as almost all 120mm fans are around 0.15a to 0.3a
However the non-led yate loon 140mm fans are 6w / 0.5a (D14SL-12) or 8.4w / 0.7a (D14ML-12) depending on speed
What seems really strange is that all the yate loon D14SL-12 LED fans are listed as 3.6w / 0.3a
And god forbid that any manufactor would list important info like the watts/amps needed on there web site :rolleyes:

Ah, thanks for that Pob! It's not your fault ;-).

I think if i mount the fan under instead of on top of the top panel, it may just work out right for me because they get few cm clearance from the fan grills and with some anti-vibration grommets, they should be fine.

yup, you are right about cutting holes in the motherboard tray. I need to cut few holes, will start knocking on the neightbours's doors to borrow dremel lol.

If you plan on cutting holes in things and then putting cables through them you may want to consider getting some blow hole trim, its beading to stop sharp edges cutting things and as an added bonus covers up small scratches/mistakes in the cutting ;) Anyway link to some at chilled PC http://www.chilledpc.co.uk/shop/prod...roducts_id=242

You can see it in use in my case below, its the black stuff surrounding the holes where the cables pass through the motherboard tray :D
http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/4313/img1284ux3.jpg

Thanks i will look into that once i manage to cut few holes to cover my "uninvitable mistakes" :):surrender:

Chilledpc offers some nice services i.e. laser etching, acrylic cutting etc not that im gonna use them but increasing number of people want to mod their pc and not many companies offer services like that, it's cool.

The rubber edgeing stuff is very handy for hideing rough/woggly cuts, although a file and some wet&dry paper is all you really need to remove rough/sharp edges.

If no rotary tool is availible then a drill and jigsaw (with a metal cutting blade) is fine, quite a few people prefur a jigsaw for cutting large holes (eg for a window)

Although I've not personally used any of there services, from what I've heard and seen they are very good.
Remember that if you want custom windows and paint done you have to ship them the bits of your case that are needed for the work. It's not cheap the finished resaults seem very good.

With continued digging it seems that the eairly yate loons were high amps but the latest ones are lower amps.
Check with chilledpc before you order.

Thanks pob for the info!

I was gonna order some yate fans but my payment cant' go through lol. Do i need to have paypal account to process with the payment. I only have solo card.

Any update on this cr_rom?

oh and I'm not sure about the paypal, chilledpc does show meastro and direct debit on there front page, But within a paypal image.
So might only work if you have your paypal account attached to your card.

Hi Pob,

I PM the guy, Tom, the owner of chilledpc or something and we couldnt' sort out why my solo card wont work so he suggested me to use banking online and yes, that got sorted out at the end.

My fans and anti-vibration kit came yesterday cause it took that long to clear the payment using internet banking.

I fitted in 2x120mm blue led yate loon fans at the front and 1x140mm fan on top panel. I used washers and rubbers for every fan in this case and indeed it helps against the vibration.

But now the top panel gives me grief since sharkoon and yate loon fans are about 2mm taller than nzxt fans and i've used rubbers to dampen vibration, their height have increased and cause difficulty for me to close the panel down properly (it bends).

If i was going water cooling, i can take that top panel plastic off completely to mount radiator.

And i haven't managed to cut any holes in this case lol

Ahh didn't realise thoes 140mm's were slim ones :/
25mm thick rather than the standard 38mm?

This case really seems to be turning into a bit of a white elephant :(

The Yate Loon 140mm fans are only 25mm think so guess the rubber mounts are what makes the real difference unless the NZXT 140mm were not 25mm...

Im not too sure about nzxt 140mm fans. I lined them all up and nzxt fans are about 2mm shorter than sharkoon and yate loon...:surrender:

I wish i had picked up cm-690 now! lol or maybe im just too picky