Mini-ITX Scratch Build (with LEGO!)

[Gerrard]

NOTE: this is just something I've thrown together this weekend - there's a good chance this'll go nowhere! But any sort of feedback would be nice.
TL;DR - Last paragraph on cooling and just look at the pictures!

As I mentioned in the upgrade thread, I don't really need to upgrade my machine as it's powerful enough for my needs, but something I do like to do is down size efficiently. I'm already at uATX, and in the last year or so mini-ITX MB's and features have really come along, so I've had my eye on one of these systems for a little while. The Bitfenix Prodigy looked like a good case, but it was still about the same size as my SG03, so couldn't see the point really. Then I saw the Alienware X51, and I liked how it was packaged but was a litle bit concerned with the limited PSU. Also, it had a bit of a premium. So since I had a boring weekend ahead, I thought I would see what sort of ideas I could throw together. Also gave me a good chance to learn Blender.

Now, I originally made a design with an inverted MB (ie GPU at the top) and the PSU at the bottom, effectively making a mini-ITX tower case. Again, it wasn't much smaller and wasn't that interesting. So, carrying on with the X51 idea, I decided to have the PSU external. My plans are to get some extension power cables (MB, GPU + SATA) and make a back panel for a normal ATX power supply to plug into; thereby removing the main concern with the X51. Keeping with the X51, I also decided to a PCI-E riser card of some sort (not pictured) to move the GPU flat; this maybe a ribbon one, but have some concern over power draw through it, so probably be a rigid one. Then it's just a case of fitting in a 3.5" HDD and a 2.5" SSD. Easy. I also couldn't be bothered with an optical drive; again can get a external for those rare times I need one. So here's my component layout: -



NOTE: I got these models from Sketchup and are only being used to gauge sizes. I think the SSD looks a bit small, but it's only a rough mock-up at the moment.
Size to fit all this is about 300mm x 300mm x 100mm. The width is actually going to be determined by the CPU cooler (represented by the 120mm fan); it could be as thin as 70mm!

Now it's time to build a case to go around these. I have sod all manual skills, and even less in the way of tools, but a quick search on building from scratch gave me the idea to use Lego. Thermal properties aren't brilliant, but I at least have the skills to use it! Easily customisable, and when I saw the link for http://www.bricklink.com/ where you can buy the bricks you need, this idea became a bit more feasible. But whilst this gave me the structure, it didn't have the style on its own. I was really impressed with a Japanese style case mod done years ago (http://www.bit-tech.net/modding/2006...e_mod_sangaku/) and fancied trying to incorporate this by getting some traditional Japanese style paintings printed onto perspex and inserting them as panels into the case. I ended up with this: -





The paintings are currently just random ones I got to show the sort of style I was thinking of. It may not be obvious, but I have actually modelled this using individual bricks! There's lots of details missing (the power connections, power switch, maybe front USB ports), including the finer details of actually mounting the components, or even making it easy to take the side off! I may also mod the front of the case and add another perspex panel - it's looking a bit bland at the moment. Of course, having a couple of rows of bricks widens the dimensions by around 40-50mm.

Now for the crux of the feedback - airflow. My idea is to let the GPU sit at the top with it's own side vent, which should be more than enough to keep itself cool. The CPU would have a larger horizontal cooler (something like Antec-Kuhler-shelf) and the fan that sits on it would be the case intake fan on the side. I'm not sure what else would need to be done. I'm sort of hoping the intake will create a positive pressure, but am not sure where would be best to put some small vents to exhaust from. I'm not overclocking anything, and am thinking of getting a 77W TDP Core-i5 3xxx; the graphics card will probably be a 7870. The good thing is it should fairly straightforward to modify and insert vents with some more Technic bricks!

[Biscuit]

Cool idea man :-D

Looking forward to more progression

[Pob255]

Nice idea.

For power you might be able to get a flex psu in beside the graphics card, problem is that good ones tend to be a bit expensive.
something like this http://www.fsp-group.com.tw/english/...=143&proid=707

For air vents, if you can get those images printed on to fine mesh that would give you vents + dust filtering + images.

Must admit when I saw your layout and lego I instantly thought of the old lego castle sets, make a big castle that's actually the case.

EDIT: by using lego hinge blocks and the flat tiles without bumps you could easily make hinged openings to access the insides.
Lego used to sell blocks separately, so you should be able to buy blocks from them but it was never cheap.

[Gerrard]

When I add a front panel, it may well be a meshed patern like you suggested. I also need to spend some time to browse the Lego market and see what kind of cool or unique bricks there are that may help in the design.

[Biscuit]

Ignore.... Bad suggestion sorry

[scaryjim]

EDIT: by using lego hinge blocks and the flat tiles without bumps you could easily make hinged openings to access the insides.
Lego used to sell blocks separately, so you should be able to buy blocks from them but it was never cheap.

You can buy blocks by the bucket now - you get a tub of whatever size you need and fill it with whatever bits you need. Don't know how expensive it is, but would seem the obvious option.

My big concern would be component support, tbh, particularly if you're going for a tower orientation. You're basically going to have to build close fitting boxes for each component (well, the mobo and graphics card at least) to stop them wobbling and slipping. If you could bare to have it in desktop orientation instead that would be less of a concern, but I'm not sure how well the design would work turned round. Oh, and one other thought - what would an internal case temp of 60+C do to lego bricks? I doubt it'd melt them, but it might soften them enough to cause structural issues: sounds like a job for SCIENCE!

Lovely idea though, and if you can sort the support issue it'll be a unique PC you can be very proud of

[Pob255]

If you're getting 60c+ inside a case then you've got a major air flow issue.

installation wouldn't be that hard, drill a hole in the side of a brick, fill the brick with araldite and put in a threaded insert while the glue is still wet.
Once it's fully cured that'll give you a very strong mounting point for something like motherboard standoffs.
Use two block width bricks for the structure not single width bricks and you could also use araldite to glue the bricks together to make it really strong.

[scaryjim]

If you're getting 60c+ inside a case then you've got a major air flow issue.

If you're making a case out of Lego bricks I think that's not an inconceivable situation Sad to say I have once encountered a computer that was reaching > 60C internally, which in turn was causing my company's overnight backups to die horribly. I soon sorted that out that (120cm pedestal fan pointed directly at the computer )

[Gerrard]

I had decided that I would probably end up gluing the motherboard mounts into bricks, but the graphics card could be a little bit more tricky. Lego doesn't transfer the heat as well as a metal case, so the internal temps could be a little higher, but hopefully keeping it small with a decent airflow should keep that under control. I'm currently designing the case walls as 3 studs wide, to allow me to make a groove in the middle for the panels. Something I haven't really considered is the weight; don't think it'll be a major problem.

I think getting all the components before ordering the bricks would be best, as that'll let me assemble it and get accurate dimensions to model.

[Biscuit]

The glorious part about using lego, is that it would be fairly easy for you to build 'channels' for the air to help control where it flows. I think if you are creative about it, you shouldn't have too many issues. A direct channel from the outside of the case to the GPU, perhaps with an 80 or 92mm fan to aid the flow to it and you're on a winner

[Ulti]

I'm not sure how much more power the 7870 draws compared to the 7850, but I've got a Seasonic SS-250SU (Flex ATX PSU, same as what Pob mentioned) powering my 7850 + i5 3330S.

Very interesting build with lego indeed, my idea is quite similar to yours: [v1] [v2]. A flex ATX PSU makes it a complete package meaning it'd be portable too. My only personal complaint is that Flex ATX PSUs have 40mm fans so they're quite loud. The one I have is meant to be quieter than the others, but it's not quiet enough for me so I unplugged the fan and I simply have a 120mm fan over it with the "lid" off. I've heard that this can be somewhat dangerous though (something about faraday's cage?) so I'm going to cut a big hole in the "lid" and somehow glue some mesh onto it which should solve the problem.

There was another build similar to ours that was using a SFX PSU here. You might find something that you could incorporate into your build as they also have space for a 3.5" HDD. Personally, I'd suggest for you to ditch the 3.5" HDD though, they have no place in an ITX build! 2.5" HDDs have caught up pretty nicely.

Like you, I'm also worried about airflow, but we pretty much both have the same idea; intake vents for GPU & CPU, exhaust vents elsewhere.

A tip that I've learnt is that plastic "melts" pretty easily, so for things like the motherboard standoffs, you can easily just heat it up with a soldering iron and then "melt" it into the bricks. I'm not sure how well it'd hold though. Perhaps "melt" it into the brick and then glue it.

[Pob255]

Big problem with just melting or drilling holes (drilling lego is very easy too) for mounting is that the bricks are hollow so there's nothing to screw into, which is why I suggested filling it with glue (epoxy is best for filling large areas) putting in a threaded insert (a metal tube, threaded inside for screws and rough on the outside for grip) I've repaired monitor stands this way before so I know it works.

Again air flow is more important than case material conduction, the air inside the case shouldn't get hot enough for the case to conduct serious heat.
@scaryjim, I'll repeat, "If you're getting 60c+ inside a case then you've got a major air flow issue." if you're hitting 60c inside the case (and I'm not talking about cpu heat, I talking about the ambient temperature of the air inside the case) then yes a metal case is going to help more than a plastic case but if you're hitting 60c then you've got an air flow issue in the first place and you should be looking at that not the material of the case, if you've got good air flow then the air should be being dumped out of the case before it gets to 60c.
60c ambient inside a case will create all sorts of heat issues, you're going to get major cooling problems and your hard drives are going to suffer greatly, hard drives don't like an ambient temperature over 40c.

As long as you've got good air movement through and not got any major pockets where heat can build up in trapped air then the material isn't going to be an issue.
Otherwise all scratch built the wooden cases and desk pc's would not exist.
The main reasons for cases being made of metal stems back from old EMI and shielding reasons rather than heat conduction.

Think of all the laptops that have plastic cases, if you open up a laptop, you'll find that most have a metallic coating sprayed on the inside this isn't for heat conduction (it's too thin and encased in poor heat conducting plastic) it's for EM conducting and shielding.
A metal case acts as a Faraday cage for EMI and is simply earthed via the psu housing, but these are more based off old stuff when computers and other household electronics produced more EMI than most current stuff does. (old tv's esp with analogue tuners would output a lot of EMI which could interfere with nearby electronics)

[Gerrard]

Good point on bonding; I'll make some wires at work to link everything together I think.

Looks like a very good case there Ulti. What CPU cooler are you using? I'm thinking of using the Noctua NH-L12. You can leave off the top 120mm fan and just use a 92mm fan underneath. However, I'm thinking off trying to leave the 120mm fan on as it'll be quieter and for better airflow, maybe even try a low profile one. It's a fair point on the 3.5" HDD, a quick look shows it'll probably be better getting a couple smaller 2.5" drives (I partition my large drive anyway).

EDIT: Also forgot to ask what riser card are you using? I've tried modelling a rigid one and the backplate of the graphics card slightly overlapped the backplate of the motherboard.

[Pob255]

What about the old Scythe Big Shuriken for cpu cooling? http://www.scythe-eu.com/en/products...n-2-rev-b.html

[Ulti]

Good point on bonding; I'll make some wires at work to link everything together I think.

Looks like a very good case there Ulti. What CPU cooler are you using? I'm thinking of using the Noctua NH-L12. You can leave off the top 120mm fan and just use a 92mm fan underneath. However, I'm thinking off trying to leave the 120mm fan on as it'll be quieter and for better airflow, maybe even try a low profile one. It's a fair point on the 3.5" HDD, a quick look shows it'll probably be better getting a couple smaller 2.5" drives (I partition my large drive anyway).

EDIT: Also forgot to ask what riser card are you using? I've tried modelling a rigid one and the backplate of the graphics card slightly overlapped the backplate of the motherboard.

I'm just using the Xigmatek Praeton LD963 for cooling. I'm only using the heatsink though with some Gelid Slim 12 PL fans over the heatsink and the PSU. I bought it because it was only £14 from Amazon, figured if it wasn't good enough I could return it to Amazon anyway as it's meant to support a TDP of up to 115W so if it couldn't cool my 65W i5 then I assumed I was well within reason to return it. I tested 5 CPU coolers together (Xigmatek Praeton LD963, Gelid Slim Silence iPlus, Arctic Cooling Freezer 11 LP, Stock Intel and Phanteks PH-TC90LS) and although it wasn't the fairest test as I was using the stock fan on with the maximum fan speed set to 100%, the Xigmatek did come in as the coolest whilst still being the second quietest. (AC Freezer 11 LP was the quietest) I decided to use the Xigmatek due to it only being around 30mm in height without a fan. OTOH, the Gelid Slim 12 PL fans are average at best but I can't really expect more from a 16mm fan. Realistically it'd only make my case 1cm wider if I added support for 25mm fans but I wanted to keep it as slim as possible without comparising too much on cooling.

I really like the look of the Thermalright AXP-100, but like the Noctua that you've suggested, it's quite expensive!

I'm just using an el-cheapo PCI-E 16x riser card which I got from china via eBay (item no. 170914230015). It's a 2U riser as using a 1U riser means it ends up lower than the motherboard (for dual slot cards anyway). However, the problem you mention where the backplate of the graphics card overlaps with the backplate of the motherboard is a common problem with all riser cards, they simply don't extend "outwards" enough. You would need to get a PCI-E 16x "straight" riser like eBay item no. 270793519040. Personally, I'm just going to leave the backplates to overlap a little as I believe the motherboard ports will still have enough clearance. If I do have issues then I guess I'll just have to forgo the motherboard backplate - I'm not too aiming to be a perfectionist as it'll be my first case.

Pob: From what I remember, the Big Shuriken covers the PCI-E slot for most Intel mini-ITX motherboards.

[Gerrard]

Thanks for the good info Ulti, lots to think over. It hadn't occurred to me to use a straight riser card to move the graphics card a bit further away! I've been reading a little bit into the M3A2 case you linked to on Hardforums, and they've raised the same concerns that I did on using ribbon ones, so I think rigid is definately the way forward. This sort of design seems quite popular, but then it also makes sense. I'm also going to consider trying to squeeze in a SFX PSU, but it seems that only decent one with a bit of grunt is the Silverstone SST-ST45SF-G 450W; it's also a bit pricey.

At the moment I'm designing a way to lower the side of the case using some hinge blocks. It's a bit ironic trying to build a SFX case with Lego as it's quite bulky when trying to make it strong; the walls are about an inch thick! But I might try and find a way making the walls only 2 studs wide and still be able to hold perspex panels...