Gaming cpu question: PhenomII/FX/i5/i7

[crossy]

Got an issue with my current rig and it looks like I'm going to have to replace my AM3 motherboard. But, that led me to wonder whether this'd be a good time to arrange a nice little pre-Christmas upgrade. So my options are
a. Buy an (Asus) AM3+ board and continue to use my PhenomII 1090T;
b. Buy that AM3+ board and slap in an FX8350;
c. Leave AMD and get a Z87 board (Asus Z87-A) and an i5-4670k;
d. The "lottery winner" option - Z87 board and an i7-4770k.

At the moment my preferred option is probably (c) since the wisdom seems to be that it'll oc nicely (Noctua NH-D14 air cooling) and TDP(/power consumption?) is lower than either AMD option. (d) would be nice to have, but the strain on my credit card would be appreciable! On the other hand, the benchmarks I've seen for gaming seem to show not a huge difference between a stock 4670 and 4770.

Main use of the PC is gaming, (BF4 pre-order here, CoD:Ghosts on it's way), but I also do a bit of MP3 ripping - for which the PhenomII is VERY effective. Not planning to use any IGP, (got a 7970 I'm happy with), so that's not an issue.

Any opinions? Feel free to tell me that my choice of Asus is poor too - I really don't like their new DIMM fixing arrangement.

[GoodZE]

Id personally choose option B over option C but option D would be your best results.

In BF4 the fx8350 and i7 have very similar results with the i7 barely scraping ontop.

hope that might help <3

[scaryjim]

BF4 will happily chew through as many threads as you throw at it, and seems pretty well optimised for piledriver, so if that's going to be a big part of your gaming catalogue for the next few months then an FX-8350 would be a good option. CAT will no doubt come along with one of those lovely graphs that show an 8350 getting very close to a 4770 in BF4 before long AAA games are only going to get more threaded in the future (console hardware is going to force developers to work out how to efficiently thread their games), so an 8350 should be a good safe buy. Plus, you get both an unlocked multiplier and safe FSB tweaking with AM3+, giving you a lot more options for overclocking - it's a much more old-school experience than Intel provides

As far as TDP goes, your graphics card is going to pull more power on its own than the rest of your PC, regardless of which CPU option you go for. Yes, Intel are considerably better for CPU TDP, but are you willing to pay Intel tax to save a few watts? I've been known to advocate paying extra for a lower TDP in the past, but AMD's FX CPUs are *so* cheap I just don't think it makes sense to worry about their power consumption.

What do you rip MP3s from? It's quite possible that your bottleneck there is IO, not CPU. Either way I can't see any modern processor being disappointing when it comes to ripping MP3s - it's hardly an intensive task!

As to ASUS, I've always been a bit of a fan, and I've never had any real problem with an ASUS board (including several that lasted me 5+ years of regular use). But YMMV, of course, and as long as you don't skimp too much I'd've thought any reasonable 990X or 990FX board should see you proud.

[crossy]

BF4 will happily chew through as many threads as you throw at it, and seems pretty well optimised for piledriver, so if that's going to be a big part of your gaming catalogue for the next few months then an FX-8350 would be a good option. ... I've been known to advocate paying extra for a lower TDP in the past, but AMD's FX CPUs are *so* cheap I just don't think it makes sense to worry about their power consumption.

Hmm, eight REAL cores - bragging rights! And you're right about the prices - IF an 8350 can just about cut it with an i7 then that sounds pretty good value, because that FX is more than £100 cheaper. Additional plus for me is that the Noctua's currently using the AM3 fittings (for my PhenomII) so an FX8350 wouldn't need new fittings the way that moving to Intel would. And I'm guessing that I'm more likely to have a trouble free swap going from SB890 to 990FX than SB890 to Z87 - really don't want to have to rebuild Windows if I can avoid it.

What do you rip MP3s from? It's quite possible that your bottleneck there is IO, not CPU. Either way I can't see any modern processor being disappointing when it comes to ripping MP3s - it's hardly an intensive task!

dbPoweramp software and ripping from CD. Obviously the rip from CD is slow, but the speed of the encode is very impressive. Come to think of it the odd occasion I transcode a DVD so I can watch it on the plane, the old Phenom isn't a slouch. The FX8350 would make that even better I guess.

As to ASUS, I've always been a bit of a fan, and I've never had any real problem with an ASUS board (including several that lasted me 5+ years of regular use). But YMMV, of course, and as long as you don't skimp too much I'd've thought any reasonable 990X or 990FX board should see you proud.

Managed to run into a nasty problem with memory on my current Asus board - and I'm pointing the finger at that DIMM fixing. That said, I've had the board nearly three years, so I'm not shedding too many tears about replacing it. Quite fancy a Sabretooth Gen3/R2.0 - looks like a pretty solid board, and I'm not planning on spending for the Maximus etc.

I've never had a non-Asus motherboard in my PC's, and in fact I only ever bought one non-Asus, an Asrock (although that's close isn't it), but that went into a relatives build. So like you I guess I'm an Asus loyalist.

Many thanks for the info - I've got some more thinking to do.

[scaryjim]

... the odd occasion I transcode a DVD so I can watch it on the plane, the old Phenom isn't a slouch. The FX8350 would make that even better I guess.

Most video encoding is done multithreaded, so yeah, an 8350 should monster that

... I only ever bought one non-Asus, an Asrock (although that's close isn't it), but that went into a relatives build. So like you I guess I'm an Asus loyalist. ...

AFAIK ASRock is either a sub-brand of ASUS, or is a spin off. I quite like their boards

And while I wouldn't say I'm an ASUS loyalist, they just always seem to have the boards I want: decent price on a 590i SLI chipset motherboard for my Q6600, one of the best mATX 785G mobos when I last built an HTPC, got one free from Hexus, and then managed to pick up a cheap APU bundle for a server that also happened to have an ASUS board. Plus back in the Socket A days they did a great mid-range Via chipset board that ran my Thoroughbred-B XP 2600+ and Radeon 9800 Pro like a dream...

[herulach]

If you're buying a new ASUS board it will have the new DIMM fitting, so if you think thats causing your issues you need another manufacturer. Budget is a big consideration here. Given unlimited money then obviously the i7. If your budget is about £150 then a sabertooth + keep your current CPU is the best.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

The audio encoding benchmarks on review websites don't appear to be done from an optical drive,as that is the biggest bottleneck together with the connection interface.

Regarding BF4 here are single GPU single player results:

http://gamegpu.ru/images/remote/http...bf4_proz_2.jpg



Here are 64 player map results:

http://translate.google.com/translat...2F4%23pagehead



The Intel CPUs only really seem to be ahead if you go down to CPU lighter medium settings(I expect some of the higher settings require more threads).

Parts of the single player campaign are also very GPU limited:

http://static.techspot.com/articles-...nch/CPU_01.png



Remember in the next few weeks the Mantle driver for AMD GCN based cards should be out too. This will improve the performance of AMD GCN based cards in BF4 and probably change CPU loading on CPUs.

ATM,the FX8350 is quite close to Core i7 2600K and probably Core i7 3770K level performance in the game.

The last CoD used the Black Ops II engine :

http://gamegpu.ru/images/stories/Tes...202%20proz.png



The IW6 engine will be used in the latest CoD and is an evolution of the Black Ops II engine,which is basically what you could call the IW5 engine.

Even if the engine is CPU heavier I expect it to prefer more threads.

Edit!!

I would probably get a new motherboard for your Phenom II X6 and overclock it TBH.

These motherboards should get you to around 4GHZ:

http://www.scan.co.uk/products/asus-...-%28x16%29-atx
http://www.scan.co.uk/products/asus-...-%28x16%29-atx

They both have the same VRM sections AFAIK,except the latter motherboard has symmetrical Crossfire capability and slightly better VRM cooling.

[crossy]

I would probably get a new motherboard for your Phenom II X6 and overclock it TBH.

These motherboards should get you to around 4GHZ:

http://www.scan.co.uk/products/asus-...-%28x16%29-atx
http://www.scan.co.uk/products/asus-...-%28x16%29-atx

They both have the same VRM sections AFAIK,except the latter motherboard has symmetrical Crossfire capability and slightly better VRM cooling.

Great post (as usual) Cat. My PhenomII is already a slight overclock - from 3.2 to 3.4 - so perhaps my old motherboard is holding back the processor. At the moment, I'd just be happy to have one that I could guarantee would boot with a full quota of memory and not blue screen if you look at it funny.

Hmm, decisions, decisions. Maybe the best approach (certainly from the point of domestic harmony!) is the mobo upgrade and stick with the old processor. As you say, if the sucker can take a big upclock then maybe this is a good time to try it and if it gets cooked then time for the FX!

Like the look of the M5A99X - actually seems to have a lot of the features of the more expensive Sabretooth. Slight preference for the Sabre purely because of more USB 3.0 and it's got full speed eSATA ports - useful for my backup crates!

Thanks all - good advice - as I'd expect from my fellow Hexus posters.

[herulach]

I've just moved from an M5A97 R2 to a sabertooth, and have had significantly better overclocking results on it. The M5A97 maxed out at about 4.5 (24 hour prime, it'd boot & benchmark at 4.8 ish), with the sabertooth easily coping at 4.8 at lower voltage (1.48 vs. 1.5), i've a strong suspicion I could get it higher, but I'm not mad keen on the voltage implications.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

The M5A97 R2 uses a 4+2 phase VRM but the M5A97 Evo and M5A99X EVO use 6+2 phase VRMs rated upto 275W. The Sabretooth is no doubt a lovely motherboard but then it is £30 to £35 more expensive than the M5A99X EVO.

Edit!!

Dabs seems cheaper for the 990X based motherboards:

http://www.dabs.com/category/compone...s/11143?q=990x

Second Edit!!

There is also this 990FX based motherboard too:

http://www.dabs.com/products/asus-m5...q=990fx&src=16

[crossy]

Well, given the positive feedback here I just plumped in an order to Amazon for a Sabertooth 990FX R2.0 - the less than £20 "surcharge" for it seemed - on the face of it - to be good VFM if it's a top flight board. I've got Prime so it's free next day shipping.

As part of my diagnostics on the old/current board I ponied up for some high speed (DDR-1866) RAM, so if this is an "enthusiasts" board then maybe I'll be able to see some more benefit from that. Oh, and if anyone says that the flashing lights on a Ballistix Tracer is a useless gimmick then take it from me it isn't!

As always gentlemen (I assume - apologies if wrong) I kneel in the presence of true greatness!

EDIT: just checked and my old board was a whole £40 cheaper than the Saber - when I bought it new in December 2010 from Scan.

[Laminator]

I would go C Intel have always delivered great quality CPU's and my i5 4670k is no different

[capa06]

I will go for option c, and then OC i5 to 4.2 GHz, it is more enough for all games, I assume.

[theanalyzer]

Id say go for intel simply because AM3+ future is uncertain. If there are solid indication of the steamroller coming on that platform.. then go AM3

Edit:late to the party it seems. Lets pray sr comes to am3 sockets

[scaryjim]

Id say go for intel simply because AM3+ future is uncertain.

tbh, I don't think there's any more certainty about intel staying s1150 than AMD staying on AM3+. And how often has anyone actually upgraded *just* their CPU recently? I've done it exactly once, but that was only when I won a new PC to replace the old one and decided to repurpose the hardware. Every other time I've considered it I've ended up upgrading the whole machine.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

The thing is crossy can just overclock their Phenom II X6 and should get decent enough performance in the games they want to play. A Phenom II X6 at around 4GHZ is still capable enough IMHO.

The thing is,the Phenom II X6 1090T still is worth a reasonable amount of money too:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_od...1090T&_sacat=0

That would pay for most of an FX8320.