It seems rather weird and also rather dissappointing.
Strange!
Printable View
OcUK gone down massively in my books, more so since the 30 series launch for me.
Tbh over the last few years, I've slowly used them less as found other retailers more competitive (Scan, Amazon and even Currys!) to pick up things I'm after.
As they dealt with the 3080 launch so poorly, I vowed to place my 5900X order with Scan - which I duly did today. :D
Hi all,
I managed to get a 5900x from Scan and order went through at 14.04 so fingers crossed I get it soon, has anyone had a despatch yet as I was hoping for a dpd delivery on Friday
Am I the only one who doesn't get the whole fuss about Zen 3?
Surely a biggish jump from Zen 2. In reality it doesn't hold that big of advantage in actual frame-rates for gaming over intel or discernable difference in productivity. Not to mention the higher cost.
I'd jump from my Haswell i5 in a heartbeat, but for people with a good clocked/high-core skylake it's crazy spending so much for a slight bump..
Then I'm a cheapskate and not really into the tech scene for the past few years
No your not,but the hype level has gone to 11. It solid but costs more,which is a bummer for some of us already on the platform. I should have just got a faster CFL CPU in the first place. Now its either a Zen2 CPU which is slower in some titles I play,or potentially a much more expensive Zen3 CPU which might match Cometlake(or be a bit better). Prices might drop next year,but then there is no real guarantee either,especially with our local UK situation next year.
Need people's opinion to get 3600 or 5600X. I bought the 3600 just recently but having seen the benchmarks I wonder if I should switch.
I am pairing this likely with the RX 6800 or 6800XT.
Which one should I be getting? The price difference looks to be roughly £110. Is the additional performance justified?
I am seeing an average performance improvements of just under 30% and for competitive shooter, which is what I often play, it can be like 80%!!! I definitely did not expect this.
If you’re a competitive FPS gamer, then definitely go for the 5600X. It’ll be the new optimal performing CPU, the gains on competitive shooters is big.
You’ll also benefit on Zen 3 if you’re combining it with a 6800/XT as it will be able to take advantage of the direct memory access feature.
Well my 5950x from Currys PCW turned up today.
Proof: https://imgur.com/qZHn5Pc
I am surprised to say the least, never thought I'd say well done Currys PC World, especially as I didn't bother with the free next day shipping code at checkout.
Just waiting for the rest of bits from Scan now whenever that might be.
My brothers 5950x order from Scan is still in limbo.
I'm in the Scan boat as well. How did you manage to order from Currys! It was just showing pre order for me the entire time.
In hindsight Scan have been very transparent with their stock for the Nvidia 3000 series and the same seems to be happening for the AMD Ryzen 5000 series. Just hoping I'm not in 1000+ position!
I'm surprised Currys had stock before Scan maybe it's just down to buying power but by that logic Amazon should of been the first choice lol
I'm surprised Currys had stock before Scan maybe it's just down to buying power but by that logic Amazon should of been the first choice lol
I had given up on getting one from Scan and was not going to support price gouging from the others. I didn't see any stock on Currys at 14:00 but for some reason at around 15:20 I refreshed the page and it was showing in stock, tried adding it to the basket and it would not add so refreshed again and it was out of stock then I spammed F5 until it showed in stock and tried again, eventually I managed to add it to the basket and then rushed the checkout. Received order conformation and invoice at 15:33, was expecting the order to be cancelled but received shipping conformation and DPD tracking just after midnight.
Not sure what is going on with Scan, my brother had the order conformation and money taken but nothing about a pre-order or queue position yet.
Amazon UK did have stock and went live at 11:00 apparently.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UkG...ture=emb_title
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UkG...ture=emb_title
Interesting and seems to mirror Zen2. Apparently Wendell says 2X16GB is the sweetspot.
Long time lurker, weighing in on the forums for the first time. Joined the Scan queue for a 5900x, am 1000+ in the queue unfortunately. No rush for the build at least, so can wait. Just hoping for sometime this month if possible, anyone else as optimistic?
Interesting, the 32GB (2x16GB) Corsair Vengeance LPX kit I just got is single ranked using Micron B-die according to Thaiphoon Burner. CMK32GX4M2D3600C18 ver 3.43
https://i.imgur.com/ZkhSz8q.png
Not looking to push the kit hard as I need stability so just XMP enabled and it's working fine, might swap it out for a 64GB kit soon.
Anyway it's hard to describe just how good this upgrade is coming from a 3770k, going from a HDD to an SSD for the first time?
See you in 5 to 10 years Intel... Maybe.
I'm at position 109 out of of 10k over all new Zen3 cpus I assume! I ordered the 5900x so fingers crossed I get it soon
I'm waiting for cyber monday / black friday to pick up the last few bits for my personal pc and I need 32gb (2x16gb) 3600 cl16-18 or 3200 cl14-16. It's frustrating when I can't find information on whether its dual rank or single rank. I am aware most 16gb sticks are dual rank but your post is an example that not all are.
Wish there was a proper list for this stuff
I'd expect the worst at this point, for a couple reasons. The rumour that some US retailers had told people they were back-ordered so badly people shouldn't expect their items until March 2021, and... some other rumours that various shops were expecting deliveries that never materialised.
I do wonder what the heck is going on, with so many different products now completely unavailable. I know Covid hasn't helped, but I don't (seem to) remember things being quite so bad with previous launches, that just about everything you could think of (PC and electronics related) is either OOS or massively inflated prices.
Strange times.
Obviously the ongoing Intel shortages was mainly about limited 14nm capacity mainly from being forced to release larger dies to compete with Ryzen.
Nvidia's 3000 series shortages seems to be issues with Samsung's 8nm and in some SKU's Micron's GDRR6x, plus possibly panicking about RDNA2 and the consoles making them release earlier than usual.
As for AMD, well while we don't know the details of the arrangements with Sony and Microsoft, we can guess that they are getting preferential treatment for wafers even if AMD could make far more profit selling Zen3.
BTW, CB report
https://www.computerbase.de/2020-11/...-overclocking/
the latest rumour has the Radeon 6800 non-XT ocerclocking to 2.5GHz and while drawing around 210W:
https://i.imgur.com/M6RgncO.png
source being a user on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/CapFrameX/status...55421426937856
Will be interesting to see what reviewers get next Wednesday, and while software readings of GPU power are not the same as actual readings, even at stock clock 6800 should be a lot faster than RTX3070. Plus the 16GB vs the miserly 8GB on the 3070.
Yeah I hope the VRAM stinginess from nV bites them on the ass, hard :p
Why would you hope that? GDDR6X is expensive, made by one manufacturer, uses a fair amount of power (I think doubling the memory would have needed twice the ICs as they're already using max density, but not 100% on that without looking it up), and requiring more would worsen the already tight stock issue if the rumours are true about it being partly down to memory supply. There are only certain multiples of VRAM that make sense for a certain bus width, so you end up with 10GB or 20GB for a 320b card like the 3080.
I would expect GDDR6X to be somewhere around $15 per GB (just a ballpark estimate based on some GDDR6 prices). Adding another 10GB would add another $150 or so to the base price. If they intend to keep margins the same, consider for a second where that would leave retail pricing of the cards...
Not disputing any of that, but surely it is all Nvidia's fault for making GA102 a 320 / 384 design and GA104 (RTX3070 a 256 design).
Usually, 102 cards are the Ti and Titan, but somehow (possibly by cheapening out with Samsung's 8nm process) this time Nvidia moved the whole stack by one card. On the Ti and Titan, being forced to use GDDR6X would hardly matter.
Oh, and since RTX3070 is 256 bit and uses normal GDDR6 doubling the RAM would cost Nvidia exactly the same as AMD and Navi21.
Different profit margins so it's hard to compare.
You don't have to look far to find GDDR6 pricing online, and it would be unreasonable to expect GDDR6X to be cheaper, so I don't think $15 would be a bad ballpark. Even if we say $10 (cheaper than GDDR6) - same story.
I wonder how much HBM2 packaging impacts packaging yields, or if they might run into capacity issues with the massive interposers for high volume cards? It is notably absent from consumer GPUs now.
Making the 102 into the 3080 could have been due to competitive pressure if you believe the rumours.
Nvidia probably just figured that was an appropriate amount of memory bandwidth to feed each GPU.
Regarding the 3070, I can't see them having 16GB on that card and 10GB on the 3080, can you?
And again, something has to give, either margins or RRP. What do you reckon Nvidia would rather change?
See both AT and CB report that the ASRock have released the first beta Zen3 BIOSes for B450:
https://www.computerbase.de/2020-11/...00-zen-3-b450/
https://www.anandtech.com/show/16260...-now-available
Although AT has this at the end of their article
"Update: it would appear that some of these BIOSes have already been pulled from the ASRock website, for reasons unclear."
However, I tried the links from CB and they seemed be still working. Plus (at least for the the B450M Pro4 I chose at random), their website still lists it too:
https://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/B450M%20Pro4/#BIOS
https://i.imgur.com/WKqRdCo.png
Looking at the Scan Product Launch page there's more RTX cards at an individual SKU level coming in than all Ryzen 500 SKUs put together. Overclockers have had only a handful of units come in. Something's definitely up is supply is worse than Nvidia given this CPU should be much easier to manufacture than an entire card.
I'm seeing bios's for my Steel Legend B450M as well, I'm years away from a 5000 series CPU but nice that support is there already...
lol, I'm in no hurry atm. The wife's PC is probably the next to be updated, I hope to defer that until after 5000 series availability and prices have settled a bit. My 3700X would do her very nicely :D She has been complaining about her old FX 6350, but when I say "£400 to update it" she goes quiet. I think some time soon she will say "do it!".
Another interesting question (but not interesting enough for me to google it just now), is whether those ASRock BIOS'es drop support for any older CPUs. If they don't (and ASRock's CPU list page doesn't say anything), they a good B450 or X470 might be more useful/versatile than a X570 or B550.
I seem to remember AMD saying that the BIOS upgrade for B450 motherboards to 5000 series processor compatibility would be a one-way update, due to the small storage capacity of the BIOS chips in B450 motherboards? Unless Asrock had the foresight to equip their B450 boards with larger capacity BIOS chips?
Yes, that was I meant: the official AMD word is that's it's one-way.
However, even only a 16MB BIOS chip maybe it a vendor is willing to forgo the UEFI menus and even mouse support etc. they might be able to squeeze it in. That ASRock B450M Pro4 board is only 16MB and their page says nothing about a one-way update.
Skinflint's database says roughly half of AM4 boards are 16MB, half 32MB
https://i.imgur.com/IFqk3Tr.png
https://skinflint.co.uk/?cat=mbam4#gh_filterbox
Yeah unfortunately it is pot luck, I would say most of the cheaper 32gb (2x16gb) kits are now single rank. Kingston seems to be the only manufacture that provides a datasheet with the layout.
I can't say I have noticed anything but then I am bottlenecked in other areas.
So much tech I want...5900x , RTX 3080 or a 6080XT...having this Gtx 1030 is doing my head in...
Try being on a GTX460 then mate. x570, 3900x and a GTX460 I had in the loft. Only way I could balance the books. Now trying to work out what to upgrade too, but the amount saved always seems too little for the prices keep rising faster than I can save - and then there's no stock anyway!!
Well I might end up with a Ryzen 7 3700X at this rate - Zen3 price has risen too far for me now. Mates who saved up for a GPU,also are feeling the same - even a 70 series Nvidia GPU now starts at nearly £500,and the 60 series looks like it will be nearly £400 for the first model out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SirkX7mG-24
I do like the latest Tech Deals video and what he says that essentially we are starting to see price stagnation from both parties with their 6 and 8 core CPUs.
I'm on a passive AMD chip so old it's not even an R-series. Most gaming I can do is solitaire!
Well if had spent the extra £200 on an Intel build with a Core i7 8700K,I would have gotten at least 30% extra performance(or maybe more)I suspect in certain games I play. This is in games where the minimums are around 30~45FPS.
I went with a Ryzen 5 2600 as a stop gap because it was much cheaper,and there was only 9 months to Zen2(older system went kaput at the wrong time) so thought I could get that and get rid of the Ryzen 5. Yet,Zen2 was still slower in a number of games I play,and Zen3 might be now similar performance or a bit better in them,but a Ryzen 5 5600X is now nearly £300. I could have spend £350 on a Core i7 8700K(and the Intel motherboard I was looking at was cheaper too). So realistically Intel would have been a better longterm choice for me.
Edit!!
Also for certain things such as DxO which I run,a Ryzen 5 5600X will be probably slower:
https://news.mynavi.jp/article/20201105-1457526/2
So around a 19% uplift from Zen3 from Zen2. So a 50% increase in core count leads to around a 40% increase in DxO export performance.
what do people think about a barebones system built around the 4x00U? (and which renoir chip should I go for if they're not a turkey?)
(or is this not the place for that?)
I saw this as well. He really cut throught the mud here. Anyone interested in a more mid range budget now is in a bit of an uncomfortable position. Like the Hexus review, if they had just been that little bit cheaper this release would have been worth waiting for stock. Tech Deals mentions the i9 9900k as a good value proposition but it seems like its cheaper in his neck of the woods.
No stock anyway. Awkward!
It was the equivalent of £290 including VAT in the UK which is a solid deal IMHO. I had around £300 saved up for a new CPU,so I am going to just hunt around for a Ryzen 7 3700X deal,even if gaming performance isn't as good. He also mentioned that people are repeating the same mistakes of years ago WRT to 4 cores vs more cores(it might this video or the other one he did talking about it),and that 6 cores for $300 to $350 has been around for years. Sure those older 6 cores are slower,but you would have had use of them for a few years. So $300 in the current market is not really fantastic even though the CPUs are good. The issue is next year even at some point if AMD releases cheaper Zen3 CPUs,I really don't know if we will end up paying more because of exchange rates,VAT increase,more taxes,etc because of the issues in 2020. Plus what I really want is a Ryzen 7 5700X,but if the Ryzen 7 5800X is £430,then how much is the Ryzen 7 5700X going to cost if the Ryzen 5 5600X is around £280?? £350?? £380??
roadmaps but when are they due? It's a perenial problem - something better will always arrive. Can you get the 4600 et al at the moment? I thought they weren't out in the real world, just a paper launch.
atemporal have you found a supplier or do you mean a system with them in?
Any link to it? Be interested to see
This is the more current article it links to which says
So slightly faster chips with SMT but otherwise similarly performing so depending on use case scenario it may be a case of bird in the hand vs two in the bush etc.Quote:
The only difference will be the Zen architecture used (Zen3 vs Zen2). Both Cezanne and Lucienne are to use the same GCN-based Radeon Vega graphics.
The Ryzen 3 3300X is rare as hen's teeth now and costs almost the same as the Ryzen 5 3600! You can get a 6C/12T Core i5 10400F for £140. The Ryzen 3 3100X costs £20 more than a Core i3 10100F.
Also with the higher Zen3 pricing AMD can justify not actually dropping Zen2 prices too! :(
It looks like the Ryzen 5 5600X does seem to fall apart if you want to stream any games:
https://youtu.be/LQgX9tSxQdI?t=404
I don't see how prices can stay like this. Amazon have the 3900X for a few quid more than a pre-order at Currys (who seem the more modest out of stock values) have the 5800X. £426 vs £420.
Let the madness die down, and I'm sure when there is actual stock on shelves the prices won't be so bad. I'm looking to buy a cpu for work. It isn't even my money, and I'm loathed to spend at current prices.
3900X dipped to £390ish but when new it was good to get it for £480. It's the 5800X that is overpriced IMO.
Then we move into next year. The government might have to increase taxes,VAT,etc to cover the costs of the problems this year. If we have no deal expect more costs,especially if duties are applied. Even if there is a deal,all those new border arrangements will add to import costs,etc especially as companies like Amazon use cross EU warehousing. Then if the USD:£ exchange rates go in favour of the USD,then more price increases.
There is a lot of noise that warehousing is at a premium too,so that won't help either and is on top of the "nice" AMD price hike. A Core i3 10100F and Core i5 10400F,are the cheapest 4C/8T and 6C/12T current generation CPUs. Now Intel is the "value" brand! ;)
People should have seen what was going to happen when AMD said they didn't want to be a budget brand.
So in light of that AMD can keep their Zen3 CPUs. They decided to up the price of the Ryzen 5 5600X by $50~$100(depends if you think its a Ryzen 5 3600 or Ryzen 5 3600X successor going by the TDP and included cooler).
Even if there is a cheaper Ryzen 5 5600 non-X,its coming at the wrong time for us in the UK. Moreover,AMD at best has maintained between a $30~$50 difference between the non-X and X series 6 cores. So assuming its $50 just like the previous two generations,at the very least you are looking a £225 Ryzen 5 5600 non-X which will be third tier sillicon at best. AMD hasn't used the 95W TDP tier for the Ryzen 5 yet,so expect them to be saving up them up for the Ryzen 5 5600XT to fight either Rocketlake or Alderlake.
Then one has to ask is a 6 core going to be a great idea a few years down the line? I doubt it. The Core i5 10600K was also poor value too.Then AMD and Intel can sell you another more expensive upgrade then.
Where does this leave the Ryzen 7 5700X then?? If its the same $70 difference between the Ryzen 7 3800X and Ryzen 7 3700X,that means a $379 RRP,or closer to £350. If AMD decides to keep it to $50,its £370(the Ryzen 7 5800X UK RRP is tracking roughly £10~£20 higher than a perfect conversion with VAT). That is assuming all the other import costs,etc and taxes cost the same. If not then we are triply screwed over in price!
The only realistic way for prices to noticeably better is for Intel to not only deliver on Rocketlake and Alderlake,but also to possibly undercut AMD. If not then we are stuck with the current pricing. If you want 12 or 16 cores,then the next two Intel releases probably won't change anything.
Then you have all the foolish lot justifying the price escalation meaning its going to get worse unless Intel can actually compete. They did it with GPUs,and we saw where they went(upwards). We knew this day was coming,I just didn't realise it would come before Zen4! :(
So for me I am going to look for a new Ryzen 7 3700X deal if its closer to £200. If not I am stuck with this Ryzen 5 2600 even if performance is rather meh for me in some games now. It also means I won't bother upgrading my GPU either if that is the case(will use it until it does not work).
If it means I have to start playing mostly older games,etc then be it. I have better to things to spend money on. The whales already started ruining PC gaming,now they will ruin the hardware part too. Best to let them as they will justify it as "winning" so much they lose.
I regret not just spending the extra £200 on a Core i7 8700 two years ago. Now I have to spend even more just to get a better version of it,and the Ryzen 7 3700X is not always faster in all titles.
PS,if you want the best deal:
https://www.awd-it.co.uk/amd-ryzen-9...pu-bundle.html
AWD-IT seem to be running out of their Ryzen 9 3900 non-X stocks now. They used to offer it on more motherboards at around £310~£325. The price is now going slowly up on their bundles.
Edit!!
What is even worse is that the Zen3 chiplet is barely 10% larger too,and using the same GF I/O die too.
TSMC 7NM and GF 12/14NM are not anywhere near state of the art nodes now.No wonder AMD net margins nicely went up this year,and that was during the worst of the pandemic with China shut down,and that was with zero RRP increase either.
Thanks, but this is for work use so I would want something like:
https://www.awd-it.co.uk/amd-ryzen-9...pu-bundle.html
so it can fit a 2U uATX rackmount case and support the 64BG of ECC ram I'm considering for it. Ideally I would like an Asrock-rack board, but I can't justify that money in a small company.
Either way, no-one has any stock so the prices are utterly academic. I might be forced by stock levels and project timings to go 3900X. In theory that would fit in the Asus B350M gaming board currently in that server, but a high end CPU on those old VRMs makes me nervous. Boards have improved quite a bit since the B350 days. Right now it is only supporting a 2600X.
https://www.awd-it.co.uk/asus-rog-st...ocket-am4.html
;)
£477 with the same motherboard and a Ryzen 9 3900 non-X. The Ryzen 9 5900X is £212 more,which is a decent chunk of the price of 64GB of ECC DDR4.
Also this is the Ryzen 9 3900 non-X. It consumes as much power as the Ryzen 7 3700X....or my Ryzen 5 2600. There is hardly a performance difference between the Ryzen 9 3900 non-X and Ryzen 9 3900X:
https://www.tomshardware.com/uk/revi...eview-eco-mode
I get the impression AWD-IT is starting to run out of its Ryzen 9 3900 non-X stocks,so £310 for a Ryzen 9 3900 non-X is a decent deal IMHO. Its cheaper per core than a Ryzen 5 3600 or Ryzen 9 3700X at current street prices! :)
SAM is not only coming to Intel and Nvidia,but also to Zen2:
https://www.extremetech.com/gaming/3...vidia-hardware
https://www.guru3d.com/news-story/ne...-and-b450.html
Hmm... if it can be unlocked via software for Zen2, could it be also unlocked for some older Intel CPus and NVIDIA GPUs then?
I didn't research it very well, but if that's true regarding Zen2 then this is something that could've been done a long time ago, just nobody (apart from AMD now) thought about doing it to increase performance.
The closest mention to Zen2 I saw on those links was ASUS not recommending the use of Zen2 or a few other CPUs (with the implication that the Beta BIOSes could be detrimental to their performance as it's not aimed at those CPUs), there doesn't seem to be a specific mention that it will be coming to Zen2.
Well Guru3D did say the following:
Quote:
The colleagues from Computerbase report that all current BIOS files for ASRock are supported as well as MSI who distributed the first beta versions to testers, which on the one hand enable Smart Access Memory on X470 and B450 and on the other hand roll out AGESA v2 1.1.8.0 with Curve Optimizer.
AMD might be doing a bait and switch over RX6000 pricing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lk20IzZN-xk&t=596s
HUB is not happy at all!!
Didn't they sort of did this with all the fanfare surrounding the 480 launch? Though that the headline $199 cards were available as references and eventual AIB, but the 8GB models were not and it takes ages after the launch before 8GB cards were anywhere near the nominal $229 or whatever they headline at launch was.
On the Nvidia side, the F's Edition went from overpriced poor value cards in previous generations to limited availability introductory prices which no AIB are going to match - at least for the first 6+ months until Palit or someone comes up with a cheaply-made cards.
Prices should eventually come down but we do know that 7nm GPUs are about the least profitable thing AMD can chose * to make with their 7nm wafer supply so not expecting a glut of them any time soon.
Still surprised by the shortage of Renoir after all these months. Even an initial under-estimate should have been corrected by now. I know historically there was some times when AMD had to write-down unsold inventory, and currently they are all mad about margins for the stock market, but surely under-estimating demand is very dangerous too?
*Aside from the console chips but it seems Sony and Microsoft have a pretty good solid contract there.
Really? I'm seeing mini PCs and laptops popping up all over the place.
OTOH, I just ordered some PC bits for work. Ended up asking for a 3900XT due to availability, about the only thing around at a decent price seemed to be the 3700X which I nearly downgraded to as the usually expensive price is starting to look quite the bargain. My usual "lob a cheap RX570 in there" is no longer a thing, they seem to have dried up so I ended up with a nasty looking RX550. I wondered if I should split the big monster machine into two small machines, but 3600 CPUs are stupidly expensive so that isn't really an option.
At least you can buy RAM atm.
When I posted that last link,AWD-IT had the Ryzen 9 3900 non-X and the Asus Strix B550-F for £470. But apparently it must have sold out and now is £540 which isn't as cheap.
The Ryzen 7 3700X prices are higher now - a few weeks ago I could have got one for closer to £250 from Amazon Germany. This Black Friday is just a con IMHO.
I actually found better deals on Amazon Warehouse. I found a Corsair SF600 Platimum for £75.
Only the Hynix CJR/DJR RAM if you want 32GB,and isn't that great with 400 series motherboards AFAIK,and has high CAS latencies. The Micron E-die 3600MHZ 32GB has run out,and Amazon had the 3200MHZ 32GB kit for £90 a week ago,and I decided to wait and see if there would be a deal on the 3600MHZ. Instead the 3200MHZ kit is more expensive today.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6lW1FbSHXA
Yep, I did look at that and between your posting and my looking (which wasn't that long I think) they were out. OFC in my comment I had linked to the wrong motherboard (I hate navigating their site!), and then the spec changed to need 3 x16 slots anyway :)
If a 5900X was available, I would have ordered one. But it wasn't. Just had to choose from what was in stock.
The problem is my build was not ideal. My motherboard went kaput,so instead of waiting until Zen2 which I wanted to do,I had to go Zen+ or CFL. The old system was a bit laggy in some things I ran,and the sound was cutting out,so pushed it as far as I could. I had been 7 years on my previous platform,so I don't like getting the platform wrong as I don't upgrade that often.
So I got a stop-gap Zen+ CPU and more expensive motherboard than I specced up with Intel in anticipation of Zen2. However,Zen2 didn't really impress me as much and the Ryzen 7 3700X was over £300 at launch. So I expected by now it would be somewhat cheaper. Except it almost the same price,and still worse than the Core i7 I could have got in certain applications and games. You are talking some significant improvements in certain things I run.
So performance with Zen+ was better than the ancient system but still not ideal,and the issue with Zen2/Zen3 pricing being so rubbish,it would have not cost me any extra(maybe even less) if I had just got a Core i7 8700/8700K back then,and I would have had two years of much better performance. Even for some of the very CPU limited games I have played for the last few years,a Core i7 8700K would be noticeably faster than even a Ryzen 7 3700X. Even a Core i7 6700K can be faster. I am talking about games which run at between 30~60FPS,and in some of the stuff I run such as PS,CFL is generally a faster CPU.
So I have in some ways got onto a deadend platform in reality(due to being priced out),and not even got the performance I really wanted. I paid more for the motherboard in anticipation of the upgrade path over Intel(AM4 mini-ITX motherboards at the time were not cheap). I stay on a platform for between 5~7 years.I really don't want this Ryzen 5 2600 for another 2~3 years,and I refuse to pay £300 for a Ryzen 7 3700X.
Next time I will just go with a decent CPU,and be done with it. Having an upgradeable platform only makes sense if it works out in cost. ATM,I could probably ditch what I have,and get a Core i5 10600K with a new motherboard,for less money than buying a CPU upgrade in the form of a Ryzen 5 5600X or Ryzen 7 3700X.
Plus the issue is if the new trading arrangements were not happening next year I would wait,but you know what will happen with any issues with the ports,etc.....even higher pricing. Its going to get worse IMHO. Intel is also not going to be affected by having to make consoles,and apparently that is also eating into supply for desktop for 7NM products.
The only hope we have left is that Rocketlake is any good,and apparently Intel is pulling the launch forward to January. That is the only way AMD will be forced to drop pricing,but I don't think it will do it,if they are selling everything they make,and the supply is a problem.
I kept forgetting to contact them and ask whether they would sell the CPU only to me. A Ryzen 9 3900 non-X actually would work well for my SFF system,but now its too late! :(
I've seen that accusation posted elsewhere but I don't really buy it vs plain old retailer/IAB scalping. Pricing the 6800XT $100 above the 3080 makes no sense if they actually want them to sell in volume once production ramps. This isn't to suggest AMD are being altruistic or something, it's just simple market dynamics - pricing considerably more than a similarly-performing competitor (which may be considered to have more marketing tickboxes) makes no sense.
I think AMD have done another RX480 move,where they had a limited number of reference cards at a fixed price to give the impression of an RRP. Its exactly what Nvidia are doing with the FE. It was the same with AMD and its Vega56 and Vega64 launch - they had a few cards at RRP. But the reality is outside those reference cards real pricing was much higher especially AIB ones,because they had to foot the full cost.
In the end I come to the realisation,that at least for the immediate future,if you want an affordable gaming system....get a console. I mean even a Ryzen 7 3700X which is essentially the CPU in the consoles(well its technically a Renoir 8C) is nearly £300,and the Zen3 replacement is massively more expensive.
The XBox GPU looks like a cutdown RX6800,and the RX6700XT is probably going to be a much slower 40CU part.
How much is a reference 6800?? Around £550 IIRC. Even an RTX3070 is essentially £500 for the FE. Even an RTX3060TI is going to be at least £400. A Ryzen 7 3700X is nearly £300. Now add the cost of cheap B550 motherboard and 16GB of DDR4. Then,the cost of a 1TB PCI-E 4.0 SSD,and the case,PSU and Windows. Well over £1000 for a system which might about equal or slightly beat an XBox. I think honestly we will need to wait until the next refresh,for things to make some sense WRT to pricing.
I need a low end machine for the office and saw an ad for A520. Who is that aimed at?
Its basically a rebadged B450 with no overclocking support. But if you already have a GPU get this:
https://www.scan.co.uk/products/inte...100f-cpu-boxed
If you don't have one get this:
https://www.cclonline.com/product/31...ooler/CPU0660/
Even the AMD 12NM APUs are not cheaper. It's like the whole AMD CPU stack has become stupid priced. Seriously the Ryzen 3 3200G being nearly £100 makes no sense,if a Core i3 10100 which has double the threads costs around the same!!
We have been on intel laptops. so no dGpu. Plus onboard gfx is preferred for quietness and lower temps. Since it's stationery, may as well get a budget desktop.
I was thinking if we ordered a r5 2600, I'll swap them my 2200G (not oc'd) for it. They get an APU, I already have a graphic card and b450, so no updating to do on my end either. A case of throwing it in.
If you are buying everything from new,the Core i3 10100 is faster than a similarly priced Ryzen 3 3200G,in both single threaded and multi-threaded benchmarks.Its 4C/8T vs 4C/4T after all.
If you do intend to re-use the Ryzen 3 2200G then its another route,but secondhand prices for the Ryzen 5 2600 are madness. I paid £137 for mine two years ago,and they still go for between £100~£120 secondhand,or £120 from CEX. The Ryzen 5 2600 and the Ryzen 5 1600AF(basically the same CPU) by the end of last year and early this year were between £90 to £110 IIRC and that was brand new!!
I'm holding out for the 3100 to go back down but I might just go with the 10100F, if time runs out.
prices are just silly compared to even a couple of weeks ago :(
Intel CPUs seem to be fine - I don't understand what is happening with AMD CPUs. Even the 12NM ones are affected when they should be fine!!:(
NAND(SSDs) are fine,and most DDR4 is fine,unless you want Crucial Ballistic E-die stuff. It seems the worst affected things are new generation GPUs,and AMD CPUs.
I don't think things are going down in January! ;)
Unless you really want the flexibility of AM4,then a Core i3 10100F is a decent budget CPU and cheaper. Even on CEX,the Core i5 8400/9400F are significantly cheaper than a Ryzen 5 2600!!
Next time we want a simple office PC I'm tempted to go with something like this:
https://www.quietpc.com/asus-pn50-kits
But if you want the build to give you a CPU swap, then frankly any 400 series motherboard out there will run a 2200g. Heck they will all run a 3900X, with enough fans on them so the VRM doesn't start glowing :D . But do check the motherboard spec, the cheap 500 series stuff won't support a 2200g and I doubt an X570 will be in your budget. I briefly tried my 2200g in my B550 motherboard and it booted and *seemed* to run OK but I couldn't up the ram to full speed so it was stuck at something like 2666MHz so I wouldn't trust it.
There are some pre-built office machines out there, like: https://www.ebuyer.com/990071-xenta-...sktop-xr-d5160 but again that has a Prime B550M-K motherboard (https://www.itpro.co.uk/hardware/357...prisingly-fast) so you can't swap out your 2200G unless you swap out the motherboard as well. The system spec says B500M, a board that doesn't exist on the Asus site, and the review clearly shows B550M which is quite a nice board. Perhaps they are giving themselves leeway to throw a B520M board in there which Ebuyer sell for about £60 and is what I would expect them to include.
If you want to go CPU swapsies, I would go B450 board and frankly whatever CPU you can find available at the time. Even the 3100 seems to be pretty much sold out atm.
That actually looks like a neat little system. I wonder what it's like in terms of noise?
I would like the flexibility and overclocking potential of AMD, especially as Asrock (?) announced one of their A320 boards (at £44) will support the higher end chips
https://www.tomshardware.com/uk/news...20-motherboard
A Ryzen 3 3100 is not worth £100 when a Core i3 10100 is nearer £70 and faster in gaming!
https://i.imgur.com/sVdg1Ov.png
I would have told you to get a Ryzen 5 2600 but it costs more even secondhand than the Ryzen 3 3100.
Also,another thing is the 6C/12T Core i5 10400F is around £140,or nearly £40~£50 cheaper than a Ryzen 5 3600.
Because of the price rise on AMD parts,many of the Intel parts are actually viable alternatives.
It gets progressively worse when a secondhand Core i5 8400/9400F is significantly cheaper than even my Ryzen 5 2600 secondhand,and is generally better in many games. Plus the problem,as I found out an upgrade means diddly squat if AMD is jacking up prices at each generation. Not only does it mean the secondhand market is overpriced,it also means the slightly older CPUs don't drop in price. A Ryzen 7 3700X is slower in most games than cheaper Intel CPUs,but is close to its RRP even when it is now superceded by Zen3.
AMD basically did a Turing,ie,they made sure Zen3 pricing was high so Zen2 could get cleared out at near launch pricing.
Unless Intel Rocketlake and Alderlake force AMD to cut pricing,AMD is definitely not the cheaper brand now. This is what happened during the Athlon 64 era too,and even towards the end of the Athlon XP era. There were some P4 chips which ended up being pretty decent value for gaming IIRC.
This is why in my case,I should have spent the extra £200~£250 2 years ago and bought a Core i7 8700K,and been done with it. Two years later,I will have spend as much or more in CPUs,to perhaps either get a bit more multi-core performance(but worse gaming performance in older games) or a bit more gaming performance. Yet I would have had two years of better performance by now if I had gone with an Intel system. Now I am stuck with this Ryzen 5 2600,as I don't want to spend £300 on a Ryzen 7 3700X,when a Core i5 10600KF is going to much faster in certain things I run and is £220,and a Ryzen 5 3600/3600X is almost the same price now! :(
In fact I calculated I could actually sell my current setup,and get a Core i5 10600KF with a Z490 motherboard for less than the cost of a Ryzen 7 3700X or Ryzen 5 5600X alone. Which is madness!
Also another issue is as Zen3 is going to be the last AM4 DDR4 design AFAIK,those higher end models are not going to drop too much in price IMHO. This is why the Phenom II X6 CPUs held their value for years!!
Intel has nothing to compete with the 12 and 16 cores AMD models - this is why the Ryzen 9 3900X and Ryzen 9 3950X are still £400+ even now.
Oh another thing - there are reports AMD is now massively prioritising consoles and APUs over desktop CPUs and GPUs:
https://twitter.com/nerdtechgasm/sta...15920144146432
So as Zen2 older stock gets depleted,what do you think is going to happen to newer Zen2 stock,or its replacements??Quote:
News from TW on TSMC 7N wafer customers. In Q4, AMD is set to use ~120K wafers for console SOCs, ~80K for PS5 + ~40K for SSX! This is ~80% of 7N wafers allocated to AMD in Q4. This console ramp is the main reason for lack of Zen 3 & Big Navi.
So 7NM supply is going to be tight now,and I doubt pricing is going to get better,unless Intel actually has something decent next year. But the problem is even AMD 12NM parts have shot up in price,which I can't explain. There should be no problems with 12NM supply? Intel OTH seems to be not really affected?? This is why if you are on a budget,the Intel parts are increasingly an option here - £30~£60 for the comparable Zen2 AMD CPUs,isn't worth it. AMD was recommended over those parts,when they cost the same or less.
Looks like the odds of me upgrading/replacing my PC in the next 6 months just went through the floor.
Oh well, another 6 months on top of 8 years of i5-3570k isn't really that long in the big scheme of things.
Still, Scan are selling a Ryzen 3500x for £139. That doesn't look like a bad price. I wonder how long that will last.
SB/IB are legendary - my Xeon E3 1230 V2 only got retired because the motherboard started bugging out,and it made no sense for me to buy a replacement(mini-ITX so prices were high). I was on socket 1155 from launch,so nearly 7 years myself. The Ryzen 5 3500X vs the Core i5 10400F,I would like to see which one wins at that price!
However,my mate got quite lucky yesterday. They were on an old FX6300 based system,and managed to snag a Ryzen 5 3600XT for £190 from Ebuyer,as they put up a few for that price(but it sold out very quickly).
If I do see any decent deals on Zen2,I will try and post them in the Black Friday thread. But non Micron E-die RAM is going quite cheap,as are SSDs,so you can actually slowly collect parts.
Reviews are a bit thin (think I saw one youtube one buy since I hate video reviews gave that a miss), but according to Asus:
https://www.asus.com/uk/Mini-PCs/Mini-PC-PN50/Quote:
Mini PC PN50 consumes as little as 10W at idle. It is also whisper-quiet, generating just 21.9 dBA of noise at idle and 34.7dB at full load.
Which isn't bad, on paper.
Unlike the ASrock DeskMini A300 / X300 the fan isn't user selectable. The DeskMini can squeeze in the Noctua top-blower is something like 24dB(A) at load but also bumps up the price by around £50 or so. Then again while small it is nearly 2 litres vs 620ml of the Asus
@CAT
I think you jinxed it!
Since you mentioned CEX I had a look and while the last time I looked there was plenty of AM4 stuff, now in-stock online there are only 3 CPUs and they price has definitely gone up!
I better hope my old Z77 mobo doesn't blow, or I too will be forced to upgrade at a bad time.
3500x all now sold out at scan too lol.
And the 10100F is now out of stock everywhere....
I've got 4 weeks until I have to buy something, I'll wait it out, not sure when Scan are going to get any more in stock as it says they were expected on the 26th:/
Thanks Obama..I mean AMD
Wonder how accurate that Tweet is?
Obviously, during the ramp-up both Sony and MS must have negotiated their terms in such a way that their allocation will take priority, but for the terms to be that if half-way through the ramp-up one or both decided they need 30% or 50% more wafers AMD had to allocate them ahead of anything else!?
Those would be very good terms for the console players, but far less so for AMD no matter how much R&D funding AMD received for RDNA2 from them. Never mind big 500mm² GPUs, the consoles must have by far the lowest margins. Plus in terms of mindshare and marketshare (yes still important despite the short-term Wall Street obsession with margins), having AMD branded stock (consoles never did much for AMD's mindshare the last time, so no reason to believe things are different this time) which people want to buy and can't is a total disaster.
Even a mythical Zen2/Zen3 6/8 core budget CPUs (under £150 / under £200) would have higher margins than console plus they'd capture mindshare and marketshare.
Its utter madness - its almost like because people can't get Zen3,they must buy any Zen or Zen2 based CPU.
Novatech have it in stock:
https://www.novatech.co.uk/products/...70110100f.html
See if Monday throws up any deals,and then move from there??
You would think that! Either way,its a lose-lose scenario for us PC folk!! :(
I went to buy a 3500x earlier until I get my hands on a 5600x/5800x, I wasn't expecting it to be sold out so quick.
I'm still plodding along with my 2500K, but without a GPU installed over the last 18-months, as I'm playing RAID: Shadow Legends mobile game on PC, amazing graphics and plays very well on onboard graphics.
I bought some Crucial Ballistix Sport LT BLS2K16G4D32AESB (2x16gb) 32GB 3600C16 for £99.50 off Amazon back in February when Crucial were selling off old stock cheap for the newer heatspreader versions, still gathering dust....