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About LinkBacksHow physically big is Ryzen? I heard it has over 2000 pins, if X399 has 4000+ is that EATX only territory?
How physically big is Ryzen? I heard it has over 2000 pins, if X399 has 4000+ is that EATX only territory?
AM4 is only 1331 contacts: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socket_AM4
A 2 die MCM wouldn't necessarily need twice that many contacts, either - it all depends on exactly how much they decide to plumb off it. I'd imagine they'd go for 4 memory channels, but they might decide to enable less of the SoC's built in IO, particularly since it's unlikely that workstation chips would be used without a chipset.
Remember that the package size - and particularly the number of contacts - doesn't really determine the board size - there are mITX boards for Intel's 2000+ contact HEDT platform. As long as the desired physical components can be fitted into the motherboard footprint that's the only thing that really matters.
One thing in AMD's favour with MCM is that, AFAIK, the Ryzen die is distinctly rectangular, while the AM4 socket packaging is basically square. If that's right, they could probably fit 2 dies into an area no bigger than the existing AM4 socket. Now they'll want more contacts, so I'm sure the X399 socket will be larger than AM4, but they've got plenty of room to play with...
A lot of the pins on a modern socket are power and ground. You actually don't need that many pins to drive memory, but 90W at 1V means 90A which is the sort of current you get in an arc welder.
When I were a lad, a z80 had a +5V pin and a ground pin. OK, the 8080 also had +12V and -5V giving that a total of 4 pins out of the 40 pin package but then Intel have always been odd (the nutters used dram for the CPU registers apparently). Anyway, these coloured pins show you the voltage pins on AM3, I presume AM4 will be no different:
I was having a look around today and noticed that the motherboard selection is still rather poor for AM4. Still no ITX boards and the mATX leave a lot to be desired.
Well the Biostar ITX one is now listed on skinflint.co.uk but only when search all countries is checked as the only stockists are Mindfactory.de and caseking.de and while they list it, it has an EAT of 10th and 19th of May respectively. £120 is a bit expensive IMO though even if it uses the X370 chipset.Originally Posted by Biscuit
Biostar are also the only vendor who do a mATX with X370 although I am unsure how useful that is.
But aside from all the others being B350, what feature are you missing from the mATX boards?
My biggest concern is that aside from the overpriced X370 flagship boards, most other boards seems to suffer from BIOS update neglect which is not good for a new platform where BIOS update are very important for good DDR4 support.
Looks like the major new AGESA update will be out soon:
https://www.techpowerup.com/233106/a...memory-support
Hopefully better DDR4 compatibility soon!!
Edit!!
The first review I have seen of the Biostar mini-ITX motherboard:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9k5Q9UpIPlU
A LAN connector that isn't realtek.
None starter for me.
Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk
????Realtek RTL8118AS - 10/100/1000 Controller
Seeing as you have gone through the totally unnecessary effort of find out of the LAN of my current motherboard and present it as if my requirements are totally arbitrary (otherwise, what are you trying to prove, seriously?!), I supposed I'm forced to explain myself... As if it shouldn't already be obvious...
After having 3 previous motherboards (one still in my workstation) all with Intel NICs, I now have one with Realtek, and the performance difference is noticeable, especially since I put an SG300 at the heart of the network.
Perhaps they have improved, it wouldn't matter either way Its left a bitter taste in my mouth and I would prefer to avoid Realtek in the future.
Last edited by Biscuit; 09-05-2017 at 01:40 AM.
Intel LAN chips come from a heritage of the excellent DEC ethernet chips, it isn't surprising that they are top notch (though still not perfect, but then what is).
RealTek chips are really cheap and add very little to the cost of a motherboard, whilst providing "good enough" performance for most cases. It really shouldn't be a barrier to buying a board, just add an Intel network card if you need the better performance.
I wouldn't buy a board with a Killer NIC though, I really don't see the point of adding the expense.
On Intel boards there might be a very good reason not to use Intel NIC chips after the recent secutity revelations: vPro and ATM.
That's assuming the ATM code stack only knows how to drive Intel NICs
For some strange reason I don't think you'll find an AMD mobo with onboard Intel LAN, and there really aren't many (any?) other big players in the arena, are there?
I'm intrigued about what you're doing that you can notice the difference between Realtek and Intel PHYs. Measure I'm sure, but I barely notice the difference between wireless and wired connections...!
Given how few consumer processors have vPro enabled I'm not convinced that's a major concern. Even if you're running vPro capable hardware at home you can probably just disable it on any affected devices. And since the attack has to come over the network even if you need to run vPro at home you can just secure your network - and if you're in a situation where you require vPro on a home network, I'd hope you're also savvy enough to keep your network properly secured anyway.
Much bigger concern for enterprises who need to use vPro for system management; e.g. they supply vPro enabled laptops to travelling workers, but they can't always control what network those devices are attached to. That's a huge potential attack vector for this vulnerability. Not really an issue for someone using vPro over a small home lab network though...
I suspect Cat just missed the question "what are you missing?" so when the answer came "a non-realtek NIC" he thought you were pointing out the suggested motherboard had a non-realtek NIC rather than requesting one, I nearly did the same!
I agree with you about the differences - and it looks like a lot of AM4 full sized boards are using Intel NICs rather than the realtek alternative, which I find interesting. Though many are doubling up with killer or realtek (or even Aquantia??! in the case of ASRock - who are they??)
Biscuit (09-05-2017),CAT-THE-FIFTH (09-05-2017)
Huh, intersting indeed, I'd missed that. Is that just the physical layer, do we know, or are they using full Intel LAN chips...?
According to wikipedia:
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquantia_CorporationAquantia Corporation is a manufacturer of high-speed transceivers; in mid-2014 it held 70% of the market for transceivers for 10 Gigabit Ethernet over copper wire.
Intriguing...
Biscuit (09-05-2017)
Lol,Biscuit I read it as you were saying it had a non- Realtek NIC so hence the question marks.
I look at the last two mini-ITX motherboards I owned which are Intel ones and both have the Realtek RTL8111E NIC. Apparently the one used on the Biostar is their new generation one which operates off PCI-E and is targeted towards gamers:
http://xtreview.com/addcomment-id-39...-replaced.html
How any of this compares to the Intel one I don't know but reading around I get the impression the older Intel ones might have been more expensive and possibly a bit more expensive to implement so was only found in a subset of higher end boards.
The Biostar is only the first mini-ITX one out.
Bit of a misunderstanding from both sides then i guess. Apologies.
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