AMD - Zen chitchat

[Mr_Jon]

AFAIK there is a 20C offset,which is factored into that(I think).

Edit!!

I know it was present for the X series CPUs,but I am uncertain about the non-X ones.

Thanks. The only reviews or the like that I've seen that mention temps are when they overclock it, and are happy to run it in the 80's (with no mention of throttling). Mine gets to just under 60 under full synthetic load, and that's with the (stock) fan at only 43%.

In keeping with the lack of info, my motherboard (asrock ab350m pro4) has the usual thermal cut-off protection...but doesn't share the offending temperature with me. That's one for a support ticket.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Looking through the Core i5 8400 reviews,it seems Ryzen still gets demolished in FO4:

https://www.purepc.pl/procesory/test...zeni?page=0,14

That is with 2133MHZ RAM too,and sure faster RAM will help performance,but it does with Intel too:

https://www.purepc.pl/procesory/test...zeni?page=0,43

Unless Zen+ really improves things my chances of getting Ryzen seems to be diminishing more and more!

[DanceswithUnix]

Unless Zen+ really improves things my chances of getting Ryzen seems to be diminishing more and more!

I'm sure Zen+ will improve things, but then Intel will have things they can do as well. So there are two questions:

1/ Is the Intel platform improved enough that you could actually feel the difference compared to what you have now.
2/ Are you intending to play the VR version of FO4 when it is released soon-ish.

VR will require some changes to the game which might have all sorts of knock-on effects as it will need more pixels and at a steady 90Hz refresh rate. That could lead to optimisations that feed into a patch for the main game. It could give Intel a clearer lead, or wipe it.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

I'm sure Zen+ will improve things, but then Intel will have things they can do as well. So there are two questions:

1/ Is the Intel platform improved enough that you could actually feel the difference compared to what you have now.
2/ Are you intending to play the VR version of FO4 when it is released soon-ish.

VR will require some changes to the game which might have all sorts of knock-on effects as it will need more pixels and at a steady 90Hz refresh rate. That could lead to optimisations that feed into a patch for the main game. It could give Intel a clearer lead, or wipe it.

If I was playing a basic play through it would not matter so much,but I have really got into the settlement building and modding aspects of the game. Currently in settlements with a GTX1080 at qHD I can hit between 20 to 30FPS for periods depending on where I am and what mods I have active.

If you look at that review my IB Core i7 should be a tad faster than the Core i7 2600K listed. With slow 2133MHZ DDR4,it seems there will be a 30% improvement in framerates(which kind of matches FO4 performance I have seen in other reviews),and that would push my minimums closer to 30FPS to 40FPS I suspect.

Part of the problem is also I managed to pick up 16GB of 2400MHZZ DDR4 for £56,so even if Ryzen gains more from faster RAM,with the stuff I have I think Intel will still be better.

I also don't intend to play any VR games for the immediate future - I am not upgrading this year still,so hopefully FO4 VR will help,but Ryzen performance in the game is terrible.

It seems to be one of the worst games for the CPU and I don't understand why AMD has not try to push for a patch already as they are in a collaboration with Bethesda.

Also unlike a lot of games the Bethesda open world games have a fairly active player base which lasts for years,unlike some of the games usually tested which fall out of relevance very quickly!!

At the very least it will help the Ryzen averages look better.

[scaryjim]

... It seems to be one of the worst games for the CPU ....

It clearly loves core speed above all else - look at how high up the charts the 7350k is (ahead of the 6900k, for instance)! I'd guess it has a main sync thread plus multiple worker threads, and the secret to higher performance is having enough cores for those worker threads (4 cores/threads seems to be plenty), then driving that main sync thread as fast as possible. So if you're going to buy based on performance in FO4 alone, then sure, it looks like you'll be buying Intel (particularly if you're going to use 2400Mhz DDR4, which will somewhat hobble Ryzen performance).

[DanceswithUnix]

It clearly loves core speed above all else - look at how high up the charts the 7350k is (ahead of the 6900k, for instance)! I'd guess it has a main sync thread plus multiple worker threads, and the secret to higher performance is having enough cores for those worker threads (4 cores/threads seems to be plenty), then driving that main sync thread as fast as possible.

Hence my wondering about Fallout 4 VR. That has to manage 60fps on a PS4 to get certified, which makes me think some game engine work may have to be done when dedicating an entire Jaguar core isn't all that quick for a central thread.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

It clearly loves core speed above all else - look at how high up the charts the 7350k is (ahead of the 6900k, for instance)! I'd guess it has a main sync thread plus multiple worker threads, and the secret to higher performance is having enough cores for those worker threads (4 cores/threads seems to be plenty), then driving that main sync thread as fast as possible. So if you're going to buy based on performance in FO4 alone, then sure, it looks like you'll be buying Intel (particularly if you're going to use 2400Mhz DDR4, which will somewhat hobble Ryzen performance).

Hence my wondering about Fallout 4 VR. That has to manage 60fps on a PS4 to get certified, which makes me think some game engine work may have to be done when dedicating an entire Jaguar core isn't all that quick for a central thread.

Its not too bad pottering about but its the whole settlement bit which is the issue,plus modding adds to that problem.


The latest version of the Creation Engine is the WORST of both worlds. One to two threads are heavily loaded but at the same time,it also shows less loading with other threads,meaning an overclocked Core i7 is the best CPU for the game - it also gets even better,on both Ryzen and Intel CPUs,faster RAM also helps too,probably as a result of the threads needing to do so much work.

Trust Bethesda to do that. There is experimental improved multi-threaded support but it does not work very it appears.

It really needs its core loading to be more even- however a big problem is if the base game changes way too much it might literally also screw the mods up too.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Also has anyone watched AdoredTV's latest video which is annoying many Intel fans,for this observation:

https://i.imgur.com/WB3B6fl.png



It seems some websites as part of the review kits were given Asus motherboards which had very aggressive MCE.

FOR THE RECORD.... after we were called out for testing with default board settings (by the audience by the way, not you) ASUS reached out to me to explain that MCE is OFF by default and Sync all Cores should NOT have been enabled by default, I explained to them that this is indeed FALSE. ASUS themselves aren't even clear on what the default settings were and it was only after clearing CMOS again and showing them what the optimized defaults are did they agree that they need to reel in their BIOS team and get to the bottom of this... I also said in my video that we as reviewers need to be better at this, so although you calling me out in this video is accurate, I had already updated my content showing where the discrepancy was. Please dont be one of those channels who builds their rep on the "Im more righteous than you..." we have enough of those channels already. As for the "Intel hiding something" of course they are... they are widening their stack on purpose... It sucks, but its business and it doesnt take much investigative research to figure that out.

I started this video back last week, it just takes a while to get it all together. I noticed earlier today that you had just uploaded a followup video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zi-zU2p2ykc explaining what happened but by then it was too late to change the video, so I pinned that as my top post on the video. In the end Jay, mistakes were made and you owned up to it which is something I respect. Same with Steve over at GN, who I mentioned in the video. I will pin this as top post so that people realise that you have also updated your information. None of you reading this better start attacking Jay or any other tech guy here, be warned.

AdoredTV thanks. I feel I let the audience down and it makes me look like a part of the Intel Corporate Wheel which I want no part of. I'm also working on redoing my Ryzen tests to make it as accurate as possible.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

The next AGESA release is implementing some big changes:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1624603/r...#post_26391661
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comment...on_agesa_1007/

AGESA 1007 comes with support for Raven Ridge APUs. AMD has also changed the entire BIOS base structure so we have to do a lot of work to port everything to the new version, which may result in further bugs. The advantage is that it makes it easier to support future CPUs (Raven Ridge, Pinnacle Ridge). The cold boot fix will be implemented as soon as we have a recent AGESA version which supports it.

Also,in the Reddit thread there is noise about potential performance improvements.

Edit!!

I saw this mentioned on AT forums:

http://www8.hp.com/h20195/v2/GetPDF.aspx/c05652570.pdf

Its the spec sheet for the HP ENVY x360 15-bq101na,which appears to be the first Raven Ridge laptop.

Performance
Operating System
Windows 10 Home 64
Processor
AMD Ryzen™ 5 2500U Quad-Core (2 GHz base frequency, up to 3.6 GHz burst
frequency, 6 MB cache)6,7
Processor family: AMD Ryzen™ 5 processor
Memory
8 GB DDR4-2400 SDRAM (1 x 8 GB)
Transfer rates up to 2400 MT/s
Storage
256 GB PCIe® NVMe™ M.2 SSD
Dropbox1
Graphics
Integrated AMD Radeon™ Vega M Graphics
Audio
Bang & Olufsen; HP Audio Boost; Dual speakers
Display
39.6 cm (15.6") diagonal FHD IPS micro-edge WLED-backlit multitouch-enabled
edge-to-edge glass (1920 x 1080)
Power
45 W AC power adapter
Battery Type
3-cell, 55.8 Wh Li-ion
Supports battery fast charge: approximately 90% in 90 minutes5
Target battery life
Up to 10 hours and 15 minutes estimated battery time3
Maximum battery life video playback
Up to 9 hours3
_
Connectivity
Wireless connectivity
802.11b/g/n/ac (2x2) Wi-Fi® and Bluetooth® 4.2 combo (Miracast compatible)
Ports
1 USB 3.1 Type-C™ Gen 1 (Data Transfer up to 5 Gb/s, DP1.2, HP Sleep and Charge); 2
USB 3.1 Gen 1 (1 HP Sleep and Charge); 1 HDMI v2.0a; 1 headphone/microphone
combo
1 multi-format SD media card reader
Webcam
HP Wide Vision FHD IR Camera with integrated dual array digital microphone
Design
Product Color
Dark ash silver; Aluminum cover finish
_
Software
HP Apps
HP Audio Switch; HP CoolSense; HP JumpStart
Software
Netflix; 1 month trial for new Microsoft® Office 365 customers
Service & support
McAfee LiveSafe™ 2
_
Additional information
Part Number
P/N: 2PH21EA #ABU
UPC/EAN code: 192018102927
Energy Efficiency Compliance
ENERGY STAR® certified; EPEAT® Silver registered
Weight
2.06 kg
Dimensions
35.97 x 24.88 x 1.96 cm
Warranty
1 year limited parts, labour, and pickup and return service; You can expand the
warranty coverage of your product to reach up to 3 years in total; for more
information go to the "Options and accessories" web section on hp.com product
pages.
Included accessories
Stylus
Keyboard
Full-size island-style backlit keyboard with numeric keypad
HP Imagepad with multi-touch gesture support
Features
Supports active stylus compliant with Microsoft Ink

[Biscuit]

Looks interesting for sure!

Only a 45W power brick is promising.

[Bagnaj97]

Memory
8 GB DDR4-2400 SDRAM (1 x 8 GB)

Single channel ram. WHY! Dual channel gave the GPU such a boost on the older APUs, I can't see that changing for Raven Ridge...

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Single channel ram. WHY! Dual channel gave the GPU such a boost on the older APUs, I can't see that changing for Raven Ridge...

It says 16GB maximum,so I assume only one of the DIMMs is populated??

[kalniel]

It says 16GB maximum,so I assume only one of the DIMMs is populated??

Probably only one slot, so you can only stick up to a 16GB SO-DIMM in there.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Probably only one slot, so you can only stick up to a 16GB SO-DIMM in there.

The Bristol Ridge based one had dual RAM slots:

http://www8.hp.com/us/en/images/HP_E...45-2462031.pdf

There is also a Stony Ridge model too and that is single channel.


Edit!!

The new Vulkan renderer seems to boost performance on Vega64 and Ryzen over just using DX12 only:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tpr556XU-K0

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

I saw this posted on AT forums:

https://i.imgur.com/pfBCaTe.png
https://i.imgur.com/wub20vP.png




Also dual core Raven Ridge APUs with Vega3 IGP spotted by videocardz:

https://twitter.com/VideoCardz/statu...08001536307200
https://twitter.com/VideoCardz/statu...09340005707776

Edit!!

If that score is true that puts it slightly above a desktop GTX750:

https://www.3dmark.com/fs/2177679

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Another RR leak:

https://browser.geekbench.com/v4/cpu/4534181

Android OS??