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Thread: Really,Intel??

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    Not a good person scaryjim's Avatar
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    Re: Really,Intel??

    Quote Originally Posted by Xlucine View Post
    ... So there could be desktop i3's with hybrid memory already in the wild? ...
    Skylake definitely had a hybrid controller - H110 boards came with either DDR3 or DDR4 memory support (and there's still plenty of both on sale if you hunt around).

    So sure, I could understand there being a switch over generation where boards could have either and the older chips would only work in a DDR3 board, and I could understand Coffee Lake only supporting DDR4, meaning that your older DDR3 chips would finally have hit obsolescence, and Coffee Lake wouldn't run in older DDR3 only boards. But for Coffee Lake to not run in DDR4-hosting H110 boards?!

    *shrug* I mean, it's not like I would've bought Intel anyway, most likely, but this kind of relentless profiteering and artificial segmentation? It really does them no favours, in terms of reputation....

  2. #18
    Editable... jimbouk's Avatar
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    Re: Really,Intel??

    What's the proportion of CPUs sold individually to those sold in a complete box though? Why would they care about long term platform support when their cosy partners also want people to buy a whole new PC rather than upgrading?

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    Re: Really,Intel??

    Intel tried the upgradable machine route once, with the Pentium Overdrive. Perhaps it is best if they stick to what they are good at

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    Re: Really,Intel??

    Quote Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix View Post
    Intel tried the upgradable machine route once, with the Pentium Overdrive. Perhaps it is best if they stick to what they are good at
    They also had socket 775, where on the same socket you needed a newer board (chipset) for the latest Core2 chips, but you could still use older chips right back to the Pentium 4. If they can manage that, with the changes in architecture, production node, power requirements etc, they can sure as hell make boards that work with both Coffee Lake and Sky/Kaby Lake, and probably older than that.

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    root Member DanceswithUnix's Avatar
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    Re: Really,Intel??

    Quote Originally Posted by Bagnaj97 View Post
    They also had socket 775, where on the same socket you needed a newer board (chipset) for the latest Core2 chips, but you could still use older chips right back to the Pentium 4. If they can manage that, with the changes in architecture, production node, power requirements etc, they can sure as hell make boards that work with both Coffee Lake and Sky/Kaby Lake, and probably older than that.
    At the time of platform design the Core chips would have been considered a risk with official roadmaps still calling the Pentium 4 the main product with an expectation of hitting 5GHz at some point. I don't think the Israel team were supposed to do such a good job it killed the P4, though I am glad they did

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    Re: Really,Intel??

    Quote Originally Posted by scaryjim View Post
    Skylake definitely had a hybrid controller - H110 boards came with either DDR3 or DDR4 memory support (and there's still plenty of both on sale if you hunt around).
    There was a even a few Z170 boards with DDR3 at launch, I contemplated getting one since I had some nice DDR3 sitting around and DDR4 was almost as expensive as it is now (and speeds were lower). In the end I went with DDR4 however since all the DDR3 boards were low end.

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    Re: Really,Intel??

    This kind of business makes me want Ryzen more, I'm thinking about just getting the 1600 or 1700 as it's all the performance I need although would like the best.

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    Re: Really,Intel??

    Quote Originally Posted by Fury559 View Post
    This kind of business makes me want Ryzen more, I'm thinking about just getting the 1600 or 1700 as it's all the performance I need although would like the best.
    Best is a subjective term - if the 1600 or 1700 does all you need at a price you can afford - it IS the best!
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    Re: Really,Intel??

    How fast do you guys reckon Ryzen+ will get to - 4.5ghz max? If it got to 5ghz that would be amazing.

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    Re: Really,Intel??

    Ryzen refresh (Feb 2018? Ryzen + I guess) is unlikely to hit 5 or 4.5 I think. Maybe 4.4-4.3? That's a guess there.
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    Re: Really,Intel??

    It appears someone has got the Core i7 8700K to work in a Z170 based motherboard:

    https://community.hwbot.org/topic/17...fee-lake-mods/


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    Re: Really,Intel??

    I managed to get distracted and murked my rog formula IX's socket, the, ah, distraction decided to pay for a new board, so I got an X instead of an IX again, figuring, "oh cool, still lga1151", yep, figured out p quickly after ordering the board that I need to return it and just get another IX as I can't afford another 300 notes for another cpu that could well be useless by the next itiration of boards, (like usual, I'm upgrading from a Formula VI, so, new memory, new cpu, new board, has taken a little while to get together, argh. I hope ddr4 sticks around for a little bit.)

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    Re: Really,Intel??

    Apparently the H110 works fine with CFL:

    https://www.anandtech.com/show/13238...h110-platforms


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    I really don't care Dashers's Avatar
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    Re: Really,Intel??

    I don't know about other people, but I don't really experience that much of an issue with socket changes. I don't think I've ever thought I would upgrade a CPU but felt that the rest of the motherboard was obsolete. Frankly it's usually the other way round.

    My last motherboard was an LGA1366 and my current one is a LGA2066. At no point of my upgrade process I thought that I'd like to keep my triple channel DDR3, USB2, PCIe 2.0, SATA-2 and floppy drive connector.

    Who has the need to swap out their CPU every generation apart from a minority of enthusiasts who want to be on the latest (albeit not greatest as we're not talking HEDT here)?

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    Re: Really,Intel??

    Quote Originally Posted by Dashers View Post
    I don't know about other people, but I don't really experience that much of an issue with socket changes. I don't think I've ever thought I would upgrade a CPU but felt that the rest of the motherboard was obsolete. Frankly it's usually the other way round.

    My last motherboard was an LGA1366 and my current one is a LGA2066. At no point of my upgrade process I thought that I'd like to keep my triple channel DDR3, USB2, PCIe 2.0, SATA-2 and floppy drive connector.

    Who has the need to swap out their CPU every generation apart from a minority of enthusiasts who want to be on the latest (albeit not greatest as we're not talking HEDT here)?
    Well if you had a Z170 with a quad core i5, and intel released a 6 or 8 core part that COULD work in your board... you might feel a little different.

    The point is more about the fact that intel could support it but deliberately dont.

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  17. #32
    Not a good person scaryjim's Avatar
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    Re: Really,Intel??

    Quote Originally Posted by Dashers View Post
    ... Who has the need to swap out their CPU every generation ...
    It's not about every generation. It's about having the option two or three generations down the line. I've known plenty of people building a rig on a tight budget now but knowing they'll have more money in a year/18 months. My step-son's rig update this year was Ryzen specifically because he'll be able to save enough money over the next 18 months to upgrade it himself - even in 3 - 5 years he's not going to be held back by dual channel DDR4, an NVMe SSD, PCIe 3.0 ... those technologies will all still be working fine. tbh very few people need anything beyond DDR2/PCIe2/USB2 in real world terms - the gains are marginal.

    But there's also reuse and repurposing to consider. Not every rebuild is an upgrade. Subsystems get reused all the time in my house - HTPC, audio workstation, TV gaming rig, NAS box ... each time we rebuild one system everything shifts around. And if the generational advances are significant - things like increased number of cores, or significant power reductions - it's often worth dropping a newer chip into an older board, or vice versa. I've kept loads of stuff out of landfill purely because I've been able to mix and match parts from different generations to get the overall result I need without having to replace everything.

    And that's what Intel is, artifically, taking away from people. It's the choice to reuse parts if they're good enough. The choice to get entry level now and pick up something better when you can afford it.

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