Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 16 of 20

Thread: BranchScope: Here we go again with the Spectre like attacks

  1. #1
    root Member DanceswithUnix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    In the middle of a core dump
    Posts
    12,978
    Thanks
    778
    Thanked
    1,586 times in 1,341 posts
    • DanceswithUnix's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus X470-PRO
      • CPU:
      • 5900X
      • Memory:
      • 32GB 3200MHz ECC
      • Storage:
      • 2TB Linux, 2TB Games (Win 10)
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Asus Strix RX Vega 56
      • PSU:
      • 650W Corsair TX
      • Case:
      • Antec 300
      • Operating System:
      • Fedora 39 + Win 10 Pro 64 (yuk)
      • Monitor(s):
      • Benq XL2730Z 1440p + Iiyama 27" 1440p
      • Internet:
      • Zen 900Mb/900Mb (CityFibre FttP)

    BranchScope: Here we go again with the Spectre like attacks

    Once a weakness is found it doesn't take long for similar mechanisms to pop up. I have to wonder if Intel/AMD with their inside knowledge of how the chips are wired will already have worked out some of these and are working on workarounds.

    https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018...ction-attacks/

  2. #2
    Moosing about! CAT-THE-FIFTH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Not here
    Posts
    32,039
    Thanks
    3,910
    Thanked
    5,224 times in 4,015 posts
    • CAT-THE-FIFTH's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Less E-PEEN
      • CPU:
      • Massive E-PEEN
      • Memory:
      • RGB E-PEEN
      • Storage:
      • Not in any order
      • Graphics card(s):
      • EVEN BIGGER E-PEEN
      • PSU:
      • OVERSIZED
      • Case:
      • UNDERSIZED
      • Operating System:
      • DOS 6.22
      • Monitor(s):
      • NOT USUALLY ON....WHEN I POST
      • Internet:
      • FUNCTIONAL

    Re: BranchScope: Here we go again with the Spectre like attacks

    Thats it!! I am done with all these CPUs - time to go back to the abacus!!

  3. #3
    root Member DanceswithUnix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    In the middle of a core dump
    Posts
    12,978
    Thanks
    778
    Thanked
    1,586 times in 1,341 posts
    • DanceswithUnix's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus X470-PRO
      • CPU:
      • 5900X
      • Memory:
      • 32GB 3200MHz ECC
      • Storage:
      • 2TB Linux, 2TB Games (Win 10)
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Asus Strix RX Vega 56
      • PSU:
      • 650W Corsair TX
      • Case:
      • Antec 300
      • Operating System:
      • Fedora 39 + Win 10 Pro 64 (yuk)
      • Monitor(s):
      • Benq XL2730Z 1440p + Iiyama 27" 1440p
      • Internet:
      • Zen 900Mb/900Mb (CityFibre FttP)

    Re: BranchScope: Here we go again with the Spectre like attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    Thats it!! I am done with all these CPUs - time to go back to the abacus!!
    Raspberry Pi 3 is immune, you just need to learn to complete your computing tasks in Scratch

  4. #4
    Not a good person scaryjim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Gateshead
    Posts
    15,196
    Thanks
    1,231
    Thanked
    2,291 times in 1,874 posts
    • scaryjim's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Dell Inspiron
      • CPU:
      • Core i5 8250U
      • Memory:
      • 2x 4GB DDR4 2666
      • Storage:
      • 128GB M.2 SSD + 1TB HDD
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Radeon R5 230
      • PSU:
      • Battery/Dell brick
      • Case:
      • Dell Inspiron 5570
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10
      • Monitor(s):
      • 15" 1080p laptop panel

    Re: BranchScope: Here we go again with the Spectre like attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix View Post
    Raspberry Pi 3 is immune, you just need to learn to complete your computing tasks in Scratch
    And how to port all of the games you want to play, of course...

    Or, see if you can find an mITX board with a pre-Bay Trail Atom, since they're also immune to this kind of attack...

  5. #5
    root Member DanceswithUnix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    In the middle of a core dump
    Posts
    12,978
    Thanks
    778
    Thanked
    1,586 times in 1,341 posts
    • DanceswithUnix's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus X470-PRO
      • CPU:
      • 5900X
      • Memory:
      • 32GB 3200MHz ECC
      • Storage:
      • 2TB Linux, 2TB Games (Win 10)
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Asus Strix RX Vega 56
      • PSU:
      • 650W Corsair TX
      • Case:
      • Antec 300
      • Operating System:
      • Fedora 39 + Win 10 Pro 64 (yuk)
      • Monitor(s):
      • Benq XL2730Z 1440p + Iiyama 27" 1440p
      • Internet:
      • Zen 900Mb/900Mb (CityFibre FttP)

    Re: BranchScope: Here we go again with the Spectre like attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by scaryjim View Post
    And how to port all of the games you want to play, of course...

    Or, see if you can find an mITX board with a pre-Bay Trail Atom, since they're also immune to this kind of attack...
    Oh I can find one, I have a D520 on an mini-ITX board on a shelf in the garage because it is so gutless as to be unusable. It was given to me for free by someone who found it so gutless as to be unusable. I could pass it on, but I don't hate anyone enough

  6. #6
    Not a good person scaryjim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Gateshead
    Posts
    15,196
    Thanks
    1,231
    Thanked
    2,291 times in 1,874 posts
    • scaryjim's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Dell Inspiron
      • CPU:
      • Core i5 8250U
      • Memory:
      • 2x 4GB DDR4 2666
      • Storage:
      • 128GB M.2 SSD + 1TB HDD
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Radeon R5 230
      • PSU:
      • Battery/Dell brick
      • Case:
      • Dell Inspiron 5570
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10
      • Monitor(s):
      • 15" 1080p laptop panel

    Re: BranchScope: Here we go again with the Spectre like attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix View Post
    ... I could pass it on, but I don't hate anyone enough
    Wonder how well it'd run an x86 Android image...

  7. #7
    root Member DanceswithUnix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    In the middle of a core dump
    Posts
    12,978
    Thanks
    778
    Thanked
    1,586 times in 1,341 posts
    • DanceswithUnix's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus X470-PRO
      • CPU:
      • 5900X
      • Memory:
      • 32GB 3200MHz ECC
      • Storage:
      • 2TB Linux, 2TB Games (Win 10)
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Asus Strix RX Vega 56
      • PSU:
      • 650W Corsair TX
      • Case:
      • Antec 300
      • Operating System:
      • Fedora 39 + Win 10 Pro 64 (yuk)
      • Monitor(s):
      • Benq XL2730Z 1440p + Iiyama 27" 1440p
      • Internet:
      • Zen 900Mb/900Mb (CityFibre FttP)

    Re: BranchScope: Here we go again with the Spectre like attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by scaryjim View Post
    Wonder how well it'd run an x86 Android image...
    The answer is in the phrase "so gutless as to be unusable"

    Honestly, those things benchmark quite well partly because the dual core with threading support was pretty good for the day. The single thread speed is beyond dire, and the "feel" of it is worse than a Raspberry Pi 2 (not even a 3). Then there is the artificially limited amount of RAM you can plug in, 2GB isn't much for even a phone these days.

    If you want an Android image, get a streaming box from GearBest or similar.

  8. #8
    Not a good person scaryjim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Gateshead
    Posts
    15,196
    Thanks
    1,231
    Thanked
    2,291 times in 1,874 posts
    • scaryjim's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Dell Inspiron
      • CPU:
      • Core i5 8250U
      • Memory:
      • 2x 4GB DDR4 2666
      • Storage:
      • 128GB M.2 SSD + 1TB HDD
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Radeon R5 230
      • PSU:
      • Battery/Dell brick
      • Case:
      • Dell Inspiron 5570
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10
      • Monitor(s):
      • 15" 1080p laptop panel

    Re: BranchScope: Here we go again with the Spectre like attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix View Post
    ... The single thread speed is beyond dire, and the "feel" of it is worse than a Raspberry Pi 2 (not even a 3). Then there is the artificially limited amount of RAM you can plug in, 2GB isn't much for even a phone these days. ...
    Presumably that's because of resource bloat in newer versions of Android? My old HTC Magic was 528MHz Arm v11 with 192MB of RAM and ran 2.3 fairly smoothly...

    Or perhaps I just have much lower expectations of what a computer should be able to manage - let's not forget that in 2010 I was building 'refreshed' machines with Celeron D processors...

  9. #9
    root Member DanceswithUnix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    In the middle of a core dump
    Posts
    12,978
    Thanks
    778
    Thanked
    1,586 times in 1,341 posts
    • DanceswithUnix's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus X470-PRO
      • CPU:
      • 5900X
      • Memory:
      • 32GB 3200MHz ECC
      • Storage:
      • 2TB Linux, 2TB Games (Win 10)
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Asus Strix RX Vega 56
      • PSU:
      • 650W Corsair TX
      • Case:
      • Antec 300
      • Operating System:
      • Fedora 39 + Win 10 Pro 64 (yuk)
      • Monitor(s):
      • Benq XL2730Z 1440p + Iiyama 27" 1440p
      • Internet:
      • Zen 900Mb/900Mb (CityFibre FttP)

    Re: BranchScope: Here we go again with the Spectre like attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by scaryjim View Post
    Presumably that's because of resource bloat in newer versions of Android? My old HTC Magic was 528MHz Arm v11 with 192MB of RAM and ran 2.3 fairly smoothly...

    Or perhaps I just have much lower expectations of what a computer should be able to manage - let's not forget that in 2010 I was building 'refreshed' machines with Celeron D processors...
    My HTC Hero was a bit of a dog with Gingerbread. Was alright until then. Same specs, probably the same machine under the hood.

    But hey, if your expectations are "worse than a Raspberry Pi now 2 generations out of date but in a larger form factor, requiring way more power and depending on awful Intel graphics drivers" then perhaps it is the platform for you

    Note my main laptop only has an AMD E350 in it so it's not like I am a performance snob

  10. #10
    Moosing about! CAT-THE-FIFTH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Not here
    Posts
    32,039
    Thanks
    3,910
    Thanked
    5,224 times in 4,015 posts
    • CAT-THE-FIFTH's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Less E-PEEN
      • CPU:
      • Massive E-PEEN
      • Memory:
      • RGB E-PEEN
      • Storage:
      • Not in any order
      • Graphics card(s):
      • EVEN BIGGER E-PEEN
      • PSU:
      • OVERSIZED
      • Case:
      • UNDERSIZED
      • Operating System:
      • DOS 6.22
      • Monitor(s):
      • NOT USUALLY ON....WHEN I POST
      • Internet:
      • FUNCTIONAL

    Re: BranchScope: Here we go again with the Spectre like attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix View Post
    Raspberry Pi 3 is immune, you just need to learn to complete your computing tasks in Scratch
    British designed and British made - go us!!

  11. #11
    The late but legendary peterb - Onward and Upward peterb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Looking down & checking on swearing
    Posts
    19,378
    Thanks
    2,892
    Thanked
    3,403 times in 2,693 posts

    Re: BranchScope: Here we go again with the Spectre like attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    Thats it!! I am done with all these CPUs - time to go back to the abacus!!
    I've got a spare Zilog Z80B going for a good price...
    (\__/)
    (='.'=)
    (")_(")

    Been helped or just 'Like' a post? Use the Thanks button!
    My broadband speed - 750 Meganibbles/minute

  12. #12
    Not a good person scaryjim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Gateshead
    Posts
    15,196
    Thanks
    1,231
    Thanked
    2,291 times in 1,874 posts
    • scaryjim's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Dell Inspiron
      • CPU:
      • Core i5 8250U
      • Memory:
      • 2x 4GB DDR4 2666
      • Storage:
      • 128GB M.2 SSD + 1TB HDD
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Radeon R5 230
      • PSU:
      • Battery/Dell brick
      • Case:
      • Dell Inspiron 5570
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10
      • Monitor(s):
      • 15" 1080p laptop panel

    Re: BranchScope: Here we go again with the Spectre like attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix View Post
    ... But hey, if your expectations are "worse than a Raspberry Pi now 2 generations out of date but in a larger form factor, requiring way more power and depending on awful Intel graphics drivers" then perhaps it is the platform for you ...
    Not exactly how I'd characterise them, but probably not too far off tbf modern web browsing pretty much kills anything with 2GB of RAM - I have to be a little wary about what tabs I have open when I'm using my tablet (frustrating, since Gems of War runs flawlessly on it).

    Quote Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix View Post
    ... Note my main laptop only has an AMD E350 in it so it's not like I am a performance snob
    It did briefly occur to me that an AM1 platform would be a much better option ... then I checked and they support speculative execution, so are probably vulnerable to all these exploits

  13. #13
    don't stock motherhoods
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    1,298
    Thanks
    809
    Thanked
    125 times in 108 posts
    • Millennium's system
      • Motherboard:
      • MSI X470 Gaming Plus
      • CPU:
      • AMD 3600x @ 3.85 with Turbo
      • Memory:
      • 4*G-Skill Samsung B 3200 14T 1T
      • Storage:
      • WD850 and OEM961 1TB, 1.5TB SSD SATA, 4TB Storage, Ext.
      • Graphics card(s):
      • 3070 FE HHR NVidia (Mining Over)
      • PSU:
      • ToughPouwer 1kw (thinking of an upgrade to 600w)
      • Case:
      • Fractal Design Define S
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 101 Home 64bit
      • Monitor(s):
      • HiSense 55" TV 4k 8bit BT709 18:10
      • Internet:
      • Vodafone 12 / month, high contentions weekends 2, phone backup.

    Re: BranchScope: Here we go again with the Spectre like attacks

    This will all get patched before Joe Average has to worry (as long as they actually get patched).
    hexus trust : n(baby):n(lover):n(sky)|>P(Name)>>nopes

    Be Careful on the Internet! I ran and tackled a drive by mining attack today. It's not designed to do anything than provide fake texts (say!)

  14. #14
    root Member DanceswithUnix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    In the middle of a core dump
    Posts
    12,978
    Thanks
    778
    Thanked
    1,586 times in 1,341 posts
    • DanceswithUnix's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus X470-PRO
      • CPU:
      • 5900X
      • Memory:
      • 32GB 3200MHz ECC
      • Storage:
      • 2TB Linux, 2TB Games (Win 10)
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Asus Strix RX Vega 56
      • PSU:
      • 650W Corsair TX
      • Case:
      • Antec 300
      • Operating System:
      • Fedora 39 + Win 10 Pro 64 (yuk)
      • Monitor(s):
      • Benq XL2730Z 1440p + Iiyama 27" 1440p
      • Internet:
      • Zen 900Mb/900Mb (CityFibre FttP)

    Re: BranchScope: Here we go again with the Spectre like attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by scaryjim View Post
    It did briefly occur to me that an AM1 platform would be a much better option ... then I checked and they support speculative execution, so are probably vulnerable to all these exploits
    Even the AMD K5 was OoO and so probably vulnerable.

    I suspect the ARM A53 is the best CPU you will find that is static issue, the A55 is better but I don't know when it will turn up in consumer devices.

    The outlier is Nvidia's Denver core. That is rumoured to be some sort of VLIW setup so software assisted wide static issue so *might* be immune and if not Nvidia might be able to code around the problem. Dev boards were about £300 if any are still around for sale.

  15. #15
    Not a good person scaryjim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Gateshead
    Posts
    15,196
    Thanks
    1,231
    Thanked
    2,291 times in 1,874 posts
    • scaryjim's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Dell Inspiron
      • CPU:
      • Core i5 8250U
      • Memory:
      • 2x 4GB DDR4 2666
      • Storage:
      • 128GB M.2 SSD + 1TB HDD
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Radeon R5 230
      • PSU:
      • Battery/Dell brick
      • Case:
      • Dell Inspiron 5570
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10
      • Monitor(s):
      • 15" 1080p laptop panel

    Re: BranchScope: Here we go again with the Spectre like attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix View Post
    Even the AMD K5 was OoO and so probably vulnerable. ...
    Wikipedia confirms it had speculative execution, and aiui at least one Spectre variant can theoretically be crafted to attack any processor with speculation?

    Back to playing Cosmo's Cosmic Adventure on the old 286 for me, then...

  16. #16
    root Member DanceswithUnix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    In the middle of a core dump
    Posts
    12,978
    Thanks
    778
    Thanked
    1,586 times in 1,341 posts
    • DanceswithUnix's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus X470-PRO
      • CPU:
      • 5900X
      • Memory:
      • 32GB 3200MHz ECC
      • Storage:
      • 2TB Linux, 2TB Games (Win 10)
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Asus Strix RX Vega 56
      • PSU:
      • 650W Corsair TX
      • Case:
      • Antec 300
      • Operating System:
      • Fedora 39 + Win 10 Pro 64 (yuk)
      • Monitor(s):
      • Benq XL2730Z 1440p + Iiyama 27" 1440p
      • Internet:
      • Zen 900Mb/900Mb (CityFibre FttP)

    Re: BranchScope: Here we go again with the Spectre like attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by scaryjim View Post
    Wikipedia confirms it had speculative execution, and aiui at least one Spectre variant can theoretically be crafted to attack any processor with speculation?

    Back to playing Cosmo's Cosmic Adventure on the old 286 for me, then...
    Perhaps we finally found a use case for the Itanium. Or perhaps we aren't *that* desperate

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •