Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 16 of 17

Thread: AMD Ryzen APU review thread

  1. #1
    U don't see a Moose here! CAT-THE-FIFTH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Moosetopia
    Posts
    28,410
    Thanks
    3,151
    Thanked
    4,381 times in 3,393 posts
    • CAT-THE-FIFTH's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Less E-PEEN
      • CPU:
      • Massive E-PEEN
      • Memory:
      • RGB E-PEEN
      • Storage:
      • Not in any order
      • Graphics card(s):
      • EVEN BIGGER E-PEEN
      • PSU:
      • OVERSIZED
      • Case:
      • UNDERSIZED
      • Operating System:
      • DOS 6.22
      • Monitor(s):
      • NOT USUALLY ON....WHEN I POST
      • Internet:
      • FUNCTIONAL

    AMD Ryzen APU review thread

    Ryzen 3 2200G and Ryzen 5 2400G

    https://hexus.net/tech/reviews/cpu/1...ryzen-3-2200g/
    https://techreport.com/review/33235/...-apus-reviewed
    http://www.pcgameshardware.de/Ryzen-...2200G-1249754/
    https://www.sweclockers.com/test/251...ed-vega-grafik
    https://bit-tech.net/reviews/tech/cp...00g-reviews/1/
    https://www.hardware.fr/news/15356/a...n-3-2200g.html
    https://hothardware.com/reviews/amd-...am4-apu-review
    http://www.trustedreviews.com/review...-5-2400g-2200g
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/antonyl.../#37279be05f7a
    https://www.pcper.com/reviews/Proces...iew-Return-APU
    https://www.eteknix.com/ryzen-with-vega-60-fps-budget/
    http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum...0g-review.html
    https://nl.hardware.info/reviews/793...mmo-kampioenen
    https://www.hardwareluxx.de/index.ph...-gestopft.html
    https://overclock3d.net/reviews/cpu_...2400g_review/1
    http://lab501.ro/procesoare-chipsetu...0g-part-ii-cpu
    https://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/85...iew/index.html
    https://wasd.ro/hardware-reviews/mob...-partea-1-cpu/
    https://www.techspot.com/review/1574...ryzen-3-2200g/
    https://www.pcworld.com/article/3253...et-gamers.html
    http://www.trustedreviews.com/review...-5-2400g-2200g
    https://www.kitguru.net/components/l...e-raven-ridge/
    https://hothardware.com/reviews/amd-...am4-apu-review

    Ryzen 5 2400G

    http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...l#xtor=RSS-100
    https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/...2400G_Vega_11/
    https://www.anandtech.com/show/12425...5-2400g-review
    https://www.guru3d.com/articles_page..._review,1.html
    https://www.extremetech.com/computin...weve-ever-seen
    https://www.pcgamesn.com/amd-ryzen-5...iew-benchmarks
    https://translate.google.co.uk/trans...%2F&edit-text=
    https://translate.google.co.uk/trans...%2F&edit-text=
    http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/di...5-2400g-review
    https://www.gamersnexus.net/hwreview...rks-vs-gt-1030

    Ryzen 3 2200G

    https://www.guru3d.com/articles-page...-review,1.html
    https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/..._2200G_Vega_8/
    http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...-cpu,5472.html

    BLCK overclocking upto 4.56GHZ

    https://www.pcgamesn.com/amd-raven-ridge-overclocking

    Ryzen 3 2200G and Ryzen 5 2400G video reviews

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FntY5rYR4cE
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOCIgOZ8-dc
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56VHYE3SRiQ
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glF6cVuSynI
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1FUKgOh1pM
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7NmvmO-CNU
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1DgTvGxmAQ
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBEJoAoW944
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNKxrzY9WDY
    Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 16-03-2018 at 03:29 AM.


    Those despicable Elk,stealing the pond weed!

  2. Received thanks from:

    The Hand (14-02-2018)

  3. #2
    HEXUS.staff MLyons's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    393
    Thanks
    239
    Thanked
    109 times in 71 posts
    • MLyons's system
      • Motherboard:
      • ASUS PRIME X470-PRO
      • CPU:
      • 2700x
      • Memory:
      • 16GB DDR4 Corsair RGB
      • Storage:
      • 500GB MX500 500GB HDD 2TB SSD
      • Graphics card(s):
      • EVGA SC2 1080Ti
      • PSU:
      • Corsair tx650
      • Case:
      • Corsair Air 540
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10
      • Monitor(s):
      • 2 Asus 1080p
    Half dev, Half doge. Some say DevDoge

    Feel free to message me if you find any bugs or have any suggestions.
    If you need me urgently, PM me
    If something is/was broke it was probably me. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

  4. #3
    U don't see a Moose here! CAT-THE-FIFTH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Moosetopia
    Posts
    28,410
    Thanks
    3,151
    Thanked
    4,381 times in 3,393 posts
    • CAT-THE-FIFTH's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Less E-PEEN
      • CPU:
      • Massive E-PEEN
      • Memory:
      • RGB E-PEEN
      • Storage:
      • Not in any order
      • Graphics card(s):
      • EVEN BIGGER E-PEEN
      • PSU:
      • OVERSIZED
      • Case:
      • UNDERSIZED
      • Operating System:
      • DOS 6.22
      • Monitor(s):
      • NOT USUALLY ON....WHEN I POST
      • Internet:
      • FUNCTIONAL

    Re: AMD Ryzen APU review thread

    Oops,sorry!!


    Those despicable Elk,stealing the pond weed!

  5. #4
    U don't see a Moose here! CAT-THE-FIFTH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Moosetopia
    Posts
    28,410
    Thanks
    3,151
    Thanked
    4,381 times in 3,393 posts
    • CAT-THE-FIFTH's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Less E-PEEN
      • CPU:
      • Massive E-PEEN
      • Memory:
      • RGB E-PEEN
      • Storage:
      • Not in any order
      • Graphics card(s):
      • EVEN BIGGER E-PEEN
      • PSU:
      • OVERSIZED
      • Case:
      • UNDERSIZED
      • Operating System:
      • DOS 6.22
      • Monitor(s):
      • NOT USUALLY ON....WHEN I POST
      • Internet:
      • FUNCTIONAL

    Re: AMD Ryzen APU review thread

    Analysis from The Stilt:

    https://forums.anandtech.com/threads...#post-39301964

    Some of my personal thoughts and experiences on Raven:

    Based on the results of my test suite, the IPC of Raven varies between -4.8% - +2.8% compared to Zeppelin. The average difference being ~1.5% improvement. The difference is most likely a result of the changes made to the L2 & L3 caches, rather than the changes made to the actual Zen CPU cores themselves.

    The early rumors were correct and Raven does in fact have a significantly lower L2 cache latency than Zeppelin does. The L2 cache in Raven has 12 CLK latency, whereas the L2 latency for Zeppelin is 17 CLKs. The L2 caches in Zeppelin never posed a limitation of any sort to the Fmax, so considering the halved L3 cache in Raven, getting rid of the “slack” in the L2 latency was a smart and most likely a highly beneficial move.

    It is hard to tell exactly how small or large the penalty from the halved L3 cache is, as the L2 has been altered significantly at the same time. Generally, however the performance hit from the halved L3 cache varies between small and non-existent. Workloads which hit the > L1 caches hard, such as Bullet Physics library perform < 5% worse on Raven than on Zeppelin, which is equipped with twice the L3 cache per core. Considering that Bullet was relatively the worst performing workload in the whole test suite for Raven, it is rather safe to say that the hit from the smaller L3 cache is extremely minor in general.

    The difference between the Vega 8 (8CU/2RB) iGPU and Vega 11 (11CU/2RB) iGPU at the same frequency is extremely minor, usually around 8-11% depending on the memory frequency. At stock Vega 8 operates at 1100MHz engine clock and Vega 11 at 1240MHz (1251MHz nominal) engine clock. The typical overclock for both of the variants is >= 1600MHz at 1.200V SoC voltage. Due to the present memory bandwidth limitation, both of them will perform almost the same when they are overclocked close or to the typical maximum frequency.

    One major thing to consider prior overclocking the iGPU on Raven APUs is the power consumption. Most of the mainstream AM4 motherboards have a 2 phase VRM for the VDDCR_SoC voltage rail (in varying quality and with varying cooling as well), which on Raven not only supplies the SoC portion of the chip but the GPU cores as well. At stock the peak power consumption of Vega 11 is around 36W. When overclocked to the typical 1600MHz engine frequency, the power consumption will raise to 55-60W. While 60W doesn't sound too high, it is more than plenty for the average 2 phase VRM (around 25A per phase).

    Just like Zeppelin, Raven also features the so called "OC-Mode". On Raven there are two separate triggers to activate the “OC-Mode”: by increasing the CPU frequency or by increasing the iGPU engine frequency. Triggering either one will get rid all of the limiters (power, current, utilization) and voltage controllers, the same way as it did on Zeppelin. The only difference is that by triggering just iGPU “OC-Mode”, the Turbo / XFR features of the CPU will not be lost like they were on Zeppelin. However at least for the time being, it is not advised to only trigger the iGPU “OC-Mode”: Activating either of the “OC-Modes” will disable all of the voltage controllers, meaning that when the Turbo / XFR will still remain active the CPU voltage will raise to extremely high levels. When the CPU “OC-Mode” is activated Turbo and XFR will be disabled as well, just like on Zeppelin and the CPU voltage will remain at reasonably sane levels due to the slightly lower resulting frequencies.

    Activating either of the “OC-Modes” will also immediately disable the dLDO for the GPU cores. At stock the iGPU dLDO feeds on the VDDCR_SoC voltage rail and the typical voltage drop on the regulator is around 250mV. Once the “OC-Mode” is activated the GPU dLDO is placed in a bypass mode, meaning the GPU cores will then receive the source voltage directly without any further dropouts.

    The memory controller on Raven clearly contains some changes in comparison to Zeppelin, however the said changes unfortunately appear to be rather minor and quite possibly affect more the firmwares of the controller than the actual hardware IP itself. On average the memory latency has decreased by ~3% at the same settings, but the bandwidth seems to have regressed slightly at the same time. Also, the highest achievable memory frequency seems to be exactly the same as on Zeppelin, 3400 - 3533MHz depending on the silicon quality, the motherboard and the DRAM modules used. Fortunately, at least the memory training speed and reliability has been vastly improved.

    Similar to Zeppelin, the frequency headroom for the CPU cores themselves is very slim over the stock frequencies. The typical, highest practical CPU frequency will be around 3.85 - 3.95GHz depending on the silicon quality.





    Higher than the mentioned frequencies might be possible, however achieving them will require the voltage to be raised to a point where the power efficiency is long gone and the life time of the silicon is reduced. At frequencies beyond the inflation point (3.9GHz in the chart) the cost of the last 100MHz in frequency can easily be > 25% increase in the power consumption.

    With the tested samples 4.1GHz could not be achieved even at 1.550V despite 4.0GHz was deemed stable at 1.375V, which is already high but still well in the realms of sustainable.

    With Raven there is also another aspect, which is not present on Zeppelin: Unlike Zeppelin, Raven uses conventional TIM (instead of indium sTIM) between the core and the heatspreader. The conventional TIM used on Raven isn’t the only factor which affects it’s thermals either. Due to the extreme thinness of the Raven die, the heatspreader used for Raven AM4 APUs has been redesigned. Normally the contact surface inside the heatspeader is perfectly flat. The heatspreaders used on Raven have a “hump” inside them, which allows the heatspreader to make contact with the die itself. Without the “hump” the heatspreader would only make contact with the SMD components located around the die, which are standing taller than the die itself. The “hump” adds an extra 0.5mm to the heatspreader thickness and therefore increases the thermal resistance of the heatspreader as well.

    Despite the Raven's slightly larger die size, the temperatures are still significantly higher at the same power dissipation and cooling. Even at a modest 65W power dissipation the CPU cores can reach excess of 70°C temperatures.

    An aftermarket cooler is definitely recommended at least for the 2400G, especially if there is any plans to overclock the chip. 2400G at the stock configuration is already somewhat bound by the default 65W power limit and the chip can easily dissipate up to 120W of heat when it is overclocked to the typical maximum figures.



    Some ballpark 3D performance figures, based on my own testing: RX 550 is around 22% faster and the RX 560 around 68% faster than a stock 2400G APU.
    When the 2400G APU is overclocked to the typical maximum figures (1600MHz engine and 3400MHz DRAM) it’s performance is almost identical to a stock RX 550.

    - 2400G at stock: 1240MHz engine, 2933MHz DRAM (3236 in 3DMark Fire Strike)
    - 2400G at a typical max OC: 1600MHz engine, 3400MHz DRAM (3960 in 3DMark Fire Strike)
    - RX 550 at stock: 1210MHz engine, 7000MHz (QDR) DRAM (3955 in 3DMark Fire Strike)
    - RX 560 at stock: 1210MHz engine, 7000MHz (QDR) DRAM (5430 in 3DMark Fire Strike)

    If you are unfamiliar with some of the terms used, please check the original Ryzen: Strictly Technical write-up.
    Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 12-02-2018 at 04:11 PM.


    Those despicable Elk,stealing the pond weed!

  6. #5
    U don't see a Moose here! CAT-THE-FIFTH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Moosetopia
    Posts
    28,410
    Thanks
    3,151
    Thanked
    4,381 times in 3,393 posts
    • CAT-THE-FIFTH's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Less E-PEEN
      • CPU:
      • Massive E-PEEN
      • Memory:
      • RGB E-PEEN
      • Storage:
      • Not in any order
      • Graphics card(s):
      • EVEN BIGGER E-PEEN
      • PSU:
      • OVERSIZED
      • Case:
      • UNDERSIZED
      • Operating System:
      • DOS 6.22
      • Monitor(s):
      • NOT USUALLY ON....WHEN I POST
      • Internet:
      • FUNCTIONAL

    Re: AMD Ryzen APU review thread

    Hardware Unboxed overclocked the GPU to 1.6GHZ using the stock cooler!!


    Those despicable Elk,stealing the pond weed!

  7. #6
    U don't see a Moose here! CAT-THE-FIFTH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Moosetopia
    Posts
    28,410
    Thanks
    3,151
    Thanked
    4,381 times in 3,393 posts
    • CAT-THE-FIFTH's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Less E-PEEN
      • CPU:
      • Massive E-PEEN
      • Memory:
      • RGB E-PEEN
      • Storage:
      • Not in any order
      • Graphics card(s):
      • EVEN BIGGER E-PEEN
      • PSU:
      • OVERSIZED
      • Case:
      • UNDERSIZED
      • Operating System:
      • DOS 6.22
      • Monitor(s):
      • NOT USUALLY ON....WHEN I POST
      • Internet:
      • FUNCTIONAL

    Re: AMD Ryzen APU review thread

    Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 13-02-2018 at 07:43 PM.


    Those despicable Elk,stealing the pond weed!

  8. #7
    Orbiting The Hand's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Lincoln, UK
    Posts
    1,388
    Thanks
    134
    Thanked
    74 times in 58 posts
    • The Hand's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Gigabyte AB350 Gaming-3
      • CPU:
      • Ryzen 5 2400G
      • Memory:
      • 16GB Patriot Viper DDR4 3200mhz (8GBx2)
      • Storage:
      • 1TB Toshiba SSHD
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Vega 11 (APU)
      • PSU:
      • Corsair Modular 520w
      • Case:
      • Coolermaster Praetorian
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10 Pro
      • Monitor(s):
      • Sony 32 inch HD TV
      • Internet:
      • 20Mbps Fibre

    Re: AMD Ryzen APU review thread

    Just ordered the Ryzen 5 2400G from Scan, thanks for the benchmark links CTF and fellow hexus members! Fingers crossed all will go well with the delivery and install.

  9. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    379
    Thanks
    45
    Thanked
    76 times in 65 posts
    • Firejack's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus PRIME X470-Pro
      • CPU:
      • AMD Ryzen 7 2700X
      • Memory:
      • TeamGroup Vulcan T-Force DDR4 3200Mhz 16GB (2x8GB)
      • Storage:
      • Crucial 250GB SSD, Sandisk 128GB SSD, Samsung 1TB HDD
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Sapphire R9 380 4GB Nitro @ 1080/1575Mhz
      • PSU:
      • SeaSonic Focus Plus 650 Gold
      • Case:
      • Fractal Design Define S
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10 Pro 64bit
      • Monitor(s):
      • AOC Q3279VWF
      • Internet:
      • BT Infinity 2

    Re: AMD Ryzen APU review thread

    Hardware Unboxed has a follow up video investigating how much memory you should reserve for the integrated Vega graphics. 64MB seems to be the sweet spot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2KPzMeQnWE

  10. #9
    U don't see a Moose here! CAT-THE-FIFTH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Moosetopia
    Posts
    28,410
    Thanks
    3,151
    Thanked
    4,381 times in 3,393 posts
    • CAT-THE-FIFTH's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Less E-PEEN
      • CPU:
      • Massive E-PEEN
      • Memory:
      • RGB E-PEEN
      • Storage:
      • Not in any order
      • Graphics card(s):
      • EVEN BIGGER E-PEEN
      • PSU:
      • OVERSIZED
      • Case:
      • UNDERSIZED
      • Operating System:
      • DOS 6.22
      • Monitor(s):
      • NOT USUALLY ON....WHEN I POST
      • Internet:
      • FUNCTIONAL

    Re: AMD Ryzen APU review thread

    The TH Ryzen 3 2200G and DigitalFoundry Ryzen 3 2200G reviews have been added to the OP!!


    Those despicable Elk,stealing the pond weed!

  11. #10
    U don't see a Moose here! CAT-THE-FIFTH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Moosetopia
    Posts
    28,410
    Thanks
    3,151
    Thanked
    4,381 times in 3,393 posts
    • CAT-THE-FIFTH's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Less E-PEEN
      • CPU:
      • Massive E-PEEN
      • Memory:
      • RGB E-PEEN
      • Storage:
      • Not in any order
      • Graphics card(s):
      • EVEN BIGGER E-PEEN
      • PSU:
      • OVERSIZED
      • Case:
      • UNDERSIZED
      • Operating System:
      • DOS 6.22
      • Monitor(s):
      • NOT USUALLY ON....WHEN I POST
      • Internet:
      • FUNCTIONAL

    Re: AMD Ryzen APU review thread

    The OP has been updated with some more reviews!!


    Those despicable Elk,stealing the pond weed!

  12. #11
    U don't see a Moose here! CAT-THE-FIFTH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Moosetopia
    Posts
    28,410
    Thanks
    3,151
    Thanked
    4,381 times in 3,393 posts
    • CAT-THE-FIFTH's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Less E-PEEN
      • CPU:
      • Massive E-PEEN
      • Memory:
      • RGB E-PEEN
      • Storage:
      • Not in any order
      • Graphics card(s):
      • EVEN BIGGER E-PEEN
      • PSU:
      • OVERSIZED
      • Case:
      • UNDERSIZED
      • Operating System:
      • DOS 6.22
      • Monitor(s):
      • NOT USUALLY ON....WHEN I POST
      • Internet:
      • FUNCTIONAL

    Re: AMD Ryzen APU review thread

    I added the Gamers Nexus review.


    Those despicable Elk,stealing the pond weed!

  13. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    1,595
    Thanks
    80
    Thanked
    58 times in 52 posts
    • pp05's system
      • Motherboard:
      • MSI 880GM-E41
      • CPU:
      • AMD Athlon II x2 250
      • Memory:
      • 2GB DDR3 1333mhz Module
      • Storage:
      • Kingston
      • Graphics card(s):
      • AMD 880G chipset
      • PSU:
      • Seasonic S12 330W
      • Case:
      • Lian Li PC-60 MIDI Tower
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 7 Home Premium 32bit

    Re: AMD Ryzen APU review thread

    Can these chips run fine with 330w PSU.

  14. #13
    U don't see a Moose here! CAT-THE-FIFTH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Moosetopia
    Posts
    28,410
    Thanks
    3,151
    Thanked
    4,381 times in 3,393 posts
    • CAT-THE-FIFTH's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Less E-PEEN
      • CPU:
      • Massive E-PEEN
      • Memory:
      • RGB E-PEEN
      • Storage:
      • Not in any order
      • Graphics card(s):
      • EVEN BIGGER E-PEEN
      • PSU:
      • OVERSIZED
      • Case:
      • UNDERSIZED
      • Operating System:
      • DOS 6.22
      • Monitor(s):
      • NOT USUALLY ON....WHEN I POST
      • Internet:
      • FUNCTIONAL

    Re: AMD Ryzen APU review thread

    Quote Originally Posted by pp05 View Post
    Can these chips run fine with 330w PSU.
    What model of PSU is it?? Without a discrete card,power draw should be under 150W at the wall.


    Those despicable Elk,stealing the pond weed!

  15. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    1,595
    Thanks
    80
    Thanked
    58 times in 52 posts
    • pp05's system
      • Motherboard:
      • MSI 880GM-E41
      • CPU:
      • AMD Athlon II x2 250
      • Memory:
      • 2GB DDR3 1333mhz Module
      • Storage:
      • Kingston
      • Graphics card(s):
      • AMD 880G chipset
      • PSU:
      • Seasonic S12 330W
      • Case:
      • Lian Li PC-60 MIDI Tower
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 7 Home Premium 32bit

    Re: AMD Ryzen APU review thread

    Seasonic S12II 330w

  16. #15
    U don't see a Moose here! CAT-THE-FIFTH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Moosetopia
    Posts
    28,410
    Thanks
    3,151
    Thanked
    4,381 times in 3,393 posts
    • CAT-THE-FIFTH's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Less E-PEEN
      • CPU:
      • Massive E-PEEN
      • Memory:
      • RGB E-PEEN
      • Storage:
      • Not in any order
      • Graphics card(s):
      • EVEN BIGGER E-PEEN
      • PSU:
      • OVERSIZED
      • Case:
      • UNDERSIZED
      • Operating System:
      • DOS 6.22
      • Monitor(s):
      • NOT USUALLY ON....WHEN I POST
      • Internet:
      • FUNCTIONAL

    Re: AMD Ryzen APU review thread

    Quote Originally Posted by pp05 View Post
    Seasonic S12II 330w
    It should be enough.


    Those despicable Elk,stealing the pond weed!

  17. #16
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    7
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked
    1 time in 1 post

    Re: AMD Ryzen APU review thread

    Very handly information, thanks for the links, im looking in to getting one of these my self, will take my time and looks over all of this information before making a desision.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •