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Thread: THQ producer vents frustrations with PC development

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    Banhammer in peace PeterB kalniel's Avatar
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    THQ producer vents frustrations with PC development

    Very blunt article here from one of THQ's producers about the problems in developing for the PC. Nothing said is a surprise, but nice to hear it put so plainly and it definitely matches the experience I've seen in games that have copy protections that get cracked and hardware problems. Still, there is obviously something that developers could do to distinguish between problems caused by a crack and legitimate stability problems.

    Venting my frustrations with PC game-dev - Quarter To Three Forums (minor language warning)

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    Seething Cauldron of Hatred TheAnimus's Avatar
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    Re: THQ producer vents frustrations with PC development

    intresting, the first response he got was moronic too.

    Suggestion: Never make your program exit directly to desktop with no warning or message due to a failed security check. Instead, display a helpful and politely-worded message box that explains that the security check failed, informs the user that the program cannot continue, and provides a suggestion for how the user can correct the problem.
    He doesn't get it does he?

    if you do that, then its piss easy to see all the vectors for detection, and work backwards.

    If they think piracy is so high, why not look at online delivery methods? These could easily allow a lower price point. Also would decrease the chance of the pre-release leak.
    throw new ArgumentException (String, String, Exception)

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    Re: THQ producer vents frustrations with PC development

    Quote Originally Posted by TheAnimus View Post
    If they think piracy is so high, why not look at online delivery methods? These could easily allow a lower price point. Also would decrease the chance of the pre-release leak.
    Why is online delivery any less prone to piracy?

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    Re: THQ producer vents frustrations with PC development

    "About a week later, he realized that he'd forgotten to re-install his BIOS update after he wiped the machine. He fixed that, all his crashes went away. At least he was man enough to admit it."

    ummm this doesnt make sense!

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    Re: THQ producer vents frustrations with PC development

    Quote Originally Posted by kalniel View Post
    Why is online delivery any less prone to piracy?
    Because Steam is like crack?
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    Re: THQ producer vents frustrations with PC development

    just finished reading through the marathon slog of that post and there are some good points. But if the piracy rates are as high as the ones being suggested there, a dramatic rethink is needed in pc game delivery.

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    Banhammer in peace PeterB kalniel's Avatar
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    Re: THQ producer vents frustrations with PC development

    Quote Originally Posted by dangel View Post
    Because Steam is like crack?
    That's not online delivery then, that's online authentication surely?

    Quote Originally Posted by SmileyUK View Post
    "About a week later, he realized that he'd forgotten to re-install his BIOS update after he wiped the machine. He fixed that, all his crashes went away. At least he was man enough to admit it."

    ummm this doesnt make sense!
    It does to me - if you have an out of date bios that, for instance, doesn't stably run 4 sticks of ram, then you will see crashes running an application that can be cured with a BIOS update.

    a dramatic rethink is needed in pc game delivery.
    I think the whole concept of running a game on your local computer is pretty much stuffed. Server only content seems to be the only way around piracy, and that doesn't account for the other problems raised like integrated graphics.

    MS could solve both I think - they have decent DRM in consoles, mandate it for the next OS, and mandate decent hardware as well.
    Last edited by kalniel; 29-02-2008 at 11:10 AM.

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    Re: THQ producer vents frustrations with PC development

    Quote Originally Posted by kalniel View Post
    That's not online delivery then, that's online authentication surely?
    Both - it can be used to auth. boxed copies and delivers non-boxed doesn't it?
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    Re: THQ producer vents frustrations with PC development

    Quote Originally Posted by dangel View Post
    Both - it can be used to auth. boxed copies and delivers non-boxed doesn't it?
    Yes, but only the authentication step is useful against piracy, given the ease of data distribution these days. Unless you never store some critical data elements on the local PC (ala sever gaming).

    I think you're right in that online distribution would help against early release problems, hence why bioshock had an online component.

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    Re: THQ producer vents frustrations with PC development

    Quote Originally Posted by kalniel View Post
    Yes, but only the authentication step is useful against piracy, given the ease of data distribution these days. Unless you never store some critical data elements on the local PC (ala sever gaming).

    I think you're right in that online distribution would help against early release problems, hence why bioshock had an online component.
    I'd counter both have an effect - the point with online distribution is that you can offer it cheaper, (possibly) quicker and it keys into the fact people are inherently lazy. A couple of clicks and the game is on the way, pre-loaded before release day. That, I think, is the key thing with online distribution - the copy protection is no more effective that securerom etc.
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    Re: THQ producer vents frustrations with PC development

    Quote Originally Posted by kalniel View Post

    It does to me - if you have an out of date bios that, for instance, doesn't stably run 4 sticks of ram, then you will see crashes running an application that can be cured with a BIOS update.
    he said he wiped his machine without re-installing the bios update. When you wipe a machine the bios update does not get wiped unless he replaced the bios chip. Which is unlikely. Maybe if he replaced his motherboard then he would need to, but not a windows reinstall.

    but anyway its a bit offtopic for the post, just struck me as odd
    Last edited by SmileyUK; 29-02-2008 at 11:55 AM.

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    Re: THQ producer vents frustrations with PC development

    Online distribution could also go some way to helping the min. spec. problem as well... Steam already has a system analyser built into it, all they would have to do is adapt it to make recommendations based on the game specs.

    Of course they'd have to be careful, they wouldn't want to give any iron clad guarantees that a certain game would run or not, nor would their marketing people be at all happy if they thought that they were recommending people not buy a game based on its specs.
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    Re: THQ producer vents frustrations with PC development

    Quote Originally Posted by dangel View Post
    I'd counter both have an effect - the point with online distribution is that you can offer it cheaper,
    Well steam kinds of counts against that reasoning though - games through steam are usually more expensive than retail. Bioshock is $55 ex VAT, COD4 is $70 ex VAT

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    Re: THQ producer vents frustrations with PC development

    Quote Originally Posted by kalniel View Post
    Well steam kinds of counts against that reasoning though - games through steam are usually more expensive than retail. Bioshock is $55 ex VAT, COD4 is $70 ex VAT
    I said 'can' - i'm quite aware that Steam isn't always cheapest. Valve's own stuff tends to be priced well though IMHO. Still, price is only one part of the point I was making and Steam is very popular (and as you say it's not just price) nonetheless. How about convenience? Pre-loading? Auto-updating? That it keys into our lazyness?
    How does iTunes sell an inferior product for a higher price than it's physical counterpart? You focused on the wrong part of my post I think.
    Last edited by dangel; 29-02-2008 at 12:33 PM.
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    Re: THQ producer vents frustrations with PC development

    Quote Originally Posted by TheAnimus View Post
    intresting, the first response he got was moronic too.

    He doesn't get it does he?

    if you do that, then its piss easy to see all the vectors for detection, and work backwards.

    If they think piracy is so high, why not look at online delivery methods? These could easily allow a lower price point. Also would decrease the chance of the pre-release leak.
    I think he may be referring to frontlines which just came out on wednesday. Loads of American players who have it already have had it just dump them back to the desktop as soon as it starts, even though it's bought through steam. It's thought to be an error with the copy protection software. 'argh no cd! - die!' lol

    I'm getting it today or Monday so I'll have to cross my fingers. I'm actually a fan of THQ and their games - I mean the netcode for CoH is shockingly poor so that I've only ever played 1v1 online (anymore and it just crashes the extras out), but it's such a good game .
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    Re: THQ producer vents frustrations with PC development

    Quote Originally Posted by dangel View Post
    How about convenience? Pre-loading? Auto-updating? That it keys into our lazyness?
    .
    .
    You focused on the wrong part of my post I think.
    I focused on one part of your post.. but didn't think you were attaching lesser significance to it than the rest. Convenience.. to me it's not more convenient - the last game I bought through Steam (Darkstar one, two weeks ago) took a week to download (and the contention was at their end for a change). Lazyiness.. it's just as many clicks to order something online and have it turn up at the doorstep, I guess it takes some minor effort to put the disc in the drive and let it install. Pre-loading - no different to pre-ordering in my opinion. Auto-updating - most games I have do that anyway, without having anything to do with steam. Don't get me wrong, it's nice that online distribution does all that, but I don't think that has anything to do with piracy.

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