Results 1 to 16 of 16

Thread: Interesting article on piracy, DRM etc.

  1. #1
    Senior Member Ciber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Southampton
    Posts
    1,638
    Thanks
    167
    Thanked
    78 times in 62 posts
    • Ciber's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus Prime X470 Pro
      • CPU:
      • Ryzen 5 3600
      • Memory:
      • 16GB Ballistix
      • Storage:
      • ADATA XPG SX8200 Pro 512GB + 1TB
      • Graphics card(s):
      • GTX960
      • PSU:
      • Seasonic Prime Ultra Snow Silent 650W
      • Case:
      • Phanteks Enthoo Pro
      • Operating System:
      • W10 64
      • Monitor(s):
      • Samsung 275T 27" LCD
      • Internet:
      • Vodafone Fibre

    Interesting article on piracy, DRM etc.

    My blog

    I used to play BF3, Battlefield BC2, BF4 and TF2

    Do something amazing.... Give blood

  2. #2
    Registered+
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    28
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked
    0 times in 0 posts

    Re: Interesting article on piracy, DRM etc.

    DRM hurts the honest gamers much more than it hinders piracy, such a bad idea. I find many games with little or no copyright protection get pirated the least.

  3. #3
    Banhammer in peace PeterB kalniel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    30,748
    Thanks
    1,787
    Thanked
    3,287 times in 2,647 posts
    • kalniel's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Ultra
      • CPU:
      • Intel i9 9900k
      • Memory:
      • 32GB DDR4 3200 CL16
      • Storage:
      • 1TB Samsung 970Evo+ NVMe
      • Graphics card(s):
      • nVidia GTX 1060 6GB
      • PSU:
      • Seasonic 600W
      • Case:
      • Cooler Master HAF 912
      • Operating System:
      • Win 10 Pro x64
      • Monitor(s):
      • Dell S2721DGF
      • Internet:
      • rubbish

    Re: Interesting article on piracy, DRM etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dakkon View Post
    I find many games with little or no copyright protection get pirated the least.
    Like?

  4. #4
    HEXUS.social member finlay666's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Newcastle
    Posts
    8,546
    Thanks
    297
    Thanked
    894 times in 535 posts
    • finlay666's system
      • CPU:
      • 3570k
      • Memory:
      • 16gb
      • Graphics card(s):
      • 6950 2gb
      • Case:
      • Fractal R3
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 8
      • Monitor(s):
      • U2713HM and V222H
      • Internet:
      • cable

    Re: Interesting article on piracy, DRM etc.

    World of Goo
    </sarcasm>
    H3XU5 Social FAQ
    Quote Originally Posted by tiggerai View Post
    I do like a bit of hot crumpet

  5. #5
    Senior Member Andy3536's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Kent
    Posts
    2,355
    Thanks
    164
    Thanked
    194 times in 135 posts
    • Andy3536's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Gigabyte GA-880GMA
      • CPU:
      • AMD Phenom II X6 1055T 95w @3.8
      • Memory:
      • 4GB Corsair XMS3 1600MHz
      • Storage:
      • 1T WD
      • Graphics card(s):
      • ATI 4870
      • PSU:
      • Corsair 750
      • Case:
      • Antec P-182

    Re: Interesting article on piracy, DRM etc.

    Genrally a good artical but a few things bugging me.

    He complains alot about misinformation and about unsubstatiated claims about SecuROM and starforce, but then goes on to post somthing thats exactly the same like this.


    There’s no proof that Alcohol and Daemon Tools use rootkits to evade DRM, but the evidence is compelling. If they do their usage is clearly unethical and even potentially runs afoul of the US Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA). In any case, there’s no reason for these products, or any product as I’ve stated previously, to employ rootkit techniques.




    From what the artical says though it appears that starforce has a much better results in keeping games unpirated for longer yet companys are using SecuROM with it's install limit which everybody hates.
    Surly starforce would make more sence?

  6. #6
    HEXUS.social member finlay666's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Newcastle
    Posts
    8,546
    Thanks
    297
    Thanked
    894 times in 535 posts
    • finlay666's system
      • CPU:
      • 3570k
      • Memory:
      • 16gb
      • Graphics card(s):
      • 6950 2gb
      • Case:
      • Fractal R3
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 8
      • Monitor(s):
      • U2713HM and V222H
      • Internet:
      • cable

    Re: Interesting article on piracy, DRM etc.

    Could be the costs needed to implement and use the technology that put them off and going for a cheaper one instead
    H3XU5 Social FAQ
    Quote Originally Posted by tiggerai View Post
    I do like a bit of hot crumpet

  7. #7
    Admin (Ret'd)
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    18,481
    Thanks
    1,016
    Thanked
    3,208 times in 2,281 posts

    Re: Interesting article on piracy, DRM etc.

    That article is an interesting read, if a little long-winded and even misinformed (or misleading) in places. For instance, when it says early games didn't have copy protection. Well, beg to differ. I remember some of the techniques used back as far as the '70s, like custom boot sectors and track arcing on floppies for Apple II machines. I had, and even still have, games that used it .... and a machine they run on.

    There are are some doubts over the legal situation he describes, especially in relation to EULAs in the UK. I had a long discussion about this a while ago with a friend that, by a wonderful coincidence, happens to be a lawyer specialising in copyright issues. His point was that it was, at that time at least, a grey area. EULAs purport to limit user rights. For business buyers, there are some precedents that support that stance. For consumers though, his view was different. Some basic contract principles give rise to problems. First, you have to be aware of, or in a position where you should be aware of, the nature of a contact before you can enter into it. By putting EULAs inside a sealed box, the consumer can't be aware of the nature of it before buying. And at the point you buy, the contract is made. And another basic principle says that one party cannot unilaterally change or impose contract conditions after the contract is made.

    The upshot? My lawyer friend was of the opinion that while it had never been tested in court, EULAs were likely to be either unenforceable, or at the very least, of limited enforceability, if it came to a court case. It may well be that the degree to which a EULA could be enforced on a consumer could well rest on the reasonableness of it's terms, and on what consumers could reasonably expect it to say. He was also of the opinion that this was precisely why it had never (at that time) been tested in court. And remember I'm talking about consumers here. There are test cases involving business software contracts and EULAs and, by and large, they are enforceable. But consumers and businesses are treated differently.


    But leaving all that aside, for me, the argument is simple.

    1) If a game uses overly-intrusive DRM, and certainly if it uses activation servers, then I will not buy it. I understand companies have problems with piracy and I wish them the best in solving it. But not when it causes me, as a legit paying customer, to jump through hoops of their design, it's gone further than I'm prepared to accept. Irritating though they are, I will put up with disc checks to ensure I have a legit copy, but not with install limits or activation servers. I will not put myself in the position of being held hostage to a games companies servers, or goodwill, or access to CS hotlines, just because I've put a game on and off my home machine(s) a few times. It ain't gonna happen.

    2) Next, I don't expect games companies to take much notice of me personally and I doubt there's enough people think like I do that the games companies will take any notice. If everybody took that stance, there'd be no more games with activation servers etc, but they simply don't, and I expect those that do take that line to be a small enough percentage that games companies will just write us off. Well, that's their right, I suppose.

    3) Obnoxious DRM, install limits and activation servers are now sufficiently common that there's a good chance any game I buy on impulse will have it. I'm not prepared to spend loads of time researching games before I buy. I just want to have a rummage, find something that appeals, buy, go home, install and play. And if I can't buy on impulse without a high chance of running into this garbage, I just won't buy any PC games.

    4) I don't see the situation changing (for the better) any time soon. Unless the situation chances radically (and I'm not holding my breath), I'm now an ex-PC Gamer, and it's rampant piracy that has brought me to that point.

    Oh well, it was fun for the 30-odd years that it lasted.


    But it's got a bright side. If I'm not going to play games on my PC, I can save a fortune on not having to buy ludicrously priced graphics boards to cope with it. So not only do I save all that money I'd have spent on games, I save another truck load on hardware upgrades. Maybe the pirates have done me a favour.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Dreaming's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Leicester / York
    Posts
    1,501
    Thanks
    67
    Thanked
    40 times in 30 posts
    • Dreaming's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Abit IP35 Pro
      • CPU:
      • e6300 @ 2.8ghz
      • Memory:
      • 4gb Corsair XMS2 PC6400
      • Storage:
      • 500GB Western Digital for OS + 1500GB Seagate for Storage
      • Graphics card(s):
      • BFG 8800GTS OC2 320MB
      • PSU:
      • Antec Neo HE 550
      • Case:
      • Lian Li PC A05B
      • Operating System:
      • Windows Vista Home Premium x64
      • Monitor(s):
      • Samsung 22" 226BW
      • Internet:
      • NTL 4Mb/s

    Re: Interesting article on piracy, DRM etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    1) If a game uses overly-intrusive DRM, and certainly if it uses activation servers, then I will not buy it. I understand companies have problems with piracy and I wish them the best in solving it. But not when it causes me, as a legit paying customer, to jump through hoops of their design, it's gone further than I'm prepared to accept. Irritating though they are, I will put up with disc checks to ensure I have a legit copy, but not with install limits or activation servers. I will not put myself in the position of being held hostage to a games companies servers, or goodwill, or access to CS hotlines, just because I've put a game on and off my home machine(s) a few times. It ain't gonna happen.
    I'm broadly similar in that if a game uses DRM it will put me off, but sometimes if they game is good I have no choice lol. I happily got fallout 3 despite the games for windows live thing.

    Although having read through the article a few days ago, it achieved it's objective in making me think about the other side, but the article itself is biased in the sense all the research he has done has been to prove his point. (Example: I want to do research on blood being blue, type "blood is blue" into google, use those as your references).

    He admits that securom in some cases (including mine with DoW ) breaks some games as the DVD drive can't use it. But then he downplays the impact this has on the customer summarising the negative points as a mere 'annoyance'.

    IMO it is better to leave an open verdict if you are not sure one way or the other - the article doesn't know for sure one way or the other but paints a picture as if it did. Still, nothing in particular objectionable, it's just not terribly rigorous (more like somebodys very long blog post).

    As for where we stand legally, well I've been in comms with my MEP, who referred the issue of transparency of DRM to the European Commissioner for something, who has now replied saying he agrees that transparency is important, that there is currently a lack of it with regards to DRM and usage restrictions, and that he is going into consultation with his colleagues in order to see if a new set of guidelines for industry are required.

    So, it's not just one of those things (imo) that irate gamers who can't crack the latest games want - it's significantly impacting on the industry. And who makes the money? The licencers of securom, tages, etc.

    For what it's worth, I have no objection when it's inobtrusive, like Steam. You buy your licence, you can download and re-download the game as often as you like, play offline, whatever.
    Dreaming

    C2D E6300 @ 2.8 | | Abit IP35 Pro | | 4GB Corsair XMS2 800 | | BFG 8800GTS OC2 320MB | | 500GB Western Digital for OS + 1500GB Seagate for Storage | | Antec NeoHE 550 | | Lian Li PC A05B | | Samsung 226BW 22"

  9. #9
    Senior Member Workaholic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Manchester
    Posts
    1,500
    Thanks
    187
    Thanked
    14 times in 12 posts

    Re: Interesting article on piracy, DRM etc.

    Interesting read especially the following quote:

    If the Steam servers go offline at any time, or the user's Internet connection has problems, they may not be able to login to the Steam client and hence may be locked out of their own games. Indeed if Valve suddenly goes bankrupt for example, it's theoretically possible that all Steam users would be permanently locked out of their games since Valve has no legal obligation to keep their servers running.
    Has anyone thought of that one?
    Woohoo now Assistant Manager!


  10. #10
    Admin (Ret'd)
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    18,481
    Thanks
    1,016
    Thanked
    3,208 times in 2,281 posts

    Re: Interesting article on piracy, DRM etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Workaholic View Post
    Interesting read especially the following quote:

    Has anyone thought of that one?
    In general, yes, I have and have said as much before. But my comments were objections to relying on servers or online activation in general, not just with Steam. I certainly raised the bankruptcy scenario though. It's why I say I'm not prepared to rely on it.

  11. #11
    Banhammer in peace PeterB kalniel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    30,748
    Thanks
    1,787
    Thanked
    3,287 times in 2,647 posts
    • kalniel's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Ultra
      • CPU:
      • Intel i9 9900k
      • Memory:
      • 32GB DDR4 3200 CL16
      • Storage:
      • 1TB Samsung 970Evo+ NVMe
      • Graphics card(s):
      • nVidia GTX 1060 6GB
      • PSU:
      • Seasonic 600W
      • Case:
      • Cooler Master HAF 912
      • Operating System:
      • Win 10 Pro x64
      • Monitor(s):
      • Dell S2721DGF
      • Internet:
      • rubbish

    Re: Interesting article on piracy, DRM etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Workaholic View Post
    Interesting read especially the following quote:



    Has anyone thought of that one?
    Well Valve have, which is why if it fails to connect you can play your activated games offline.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Andy3536's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Kent
    Posts
    2,355
    Thanks
    164
    Thanked
    194 times in 135 posts
    • Andy3536's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Gigabyte GA-880GMA
      • CPU:
      • AMD Phenom II X6 1055T 95w @3.8
      • Memory:
      • 4GB Corsair XMS3 1600MHz
      • Storage:
      • 1T WD
      • Graphics card(s):
      • ATI 4870
      • PSU:
      • Corsair 750
      • Case:
      • Antec P-182

    Re: Interesting article on piracy, DRM etc.

    Yeah steam are pretty good, have played games a few times when the internet hasn't worked for one reason or another.

  13. #13
    Registered+
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Derby
    Posts
    60
    Thanks
    24
    Thanked
    1 time in 1 post

    Re: Interesting article on piracy, DRM etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post

    1) If a game uses overly-intrusive DRM, and certainly if it uses activation servers, then I will not buy it.
    I will not put myself in the position of being held hostage to a games companies servers, or goodwill, or access to CS hotlines, just because I've put a game on and off my home machine(s) a few times. It ain't gonna happen.
    Absolutely! I will not compromise on this. This means that there are games out there that I will never play and I can live with that.

  14. #14
    ALT0153™ Rob_B's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    6,087
    Thanks
    345
    Thanked
    700 times in 484 posts

    Re: Interesting article on piracy, DRM etc.

    I guess this really does mean that consoles are the way forward for gaming (my opinion, feel free to disagree!) You could say they are havens for DRM but they never pretend to be anything else like the PC seems to.

    I'm an ex-pc gamer now, sad, but I feel my hand was forced with overpriced hardware capable of playing them & the DRM malarky.
    True that games are more expensive on a console but for the 'turn-it-on-and-it-just-works' element they can't be beat, no servers going down, no big deal if companies go under, no 'hassle'

  15. #15
    Registered+
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Derby
    Posts
    60
    Thanks
    24
    Thanked
    1 time in 1 post

    Re: Interesting article on piracy, DRM etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob_B View Post
    I guess this really does mean that consoles are the way forward for gaming (my opinion, feel free to disagree!)
    I take the view that hardcore gamers using the latest hardware are best served by PCs and what they can offer. Each console is merely dead-end technology bound to be obsolete within a few years but I can still play DOOM on my PC (I don't but I could if I wanted to).

    But aren't some console games also "protected"?

  16. #16
    ALT0153™ Rob_B's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    6,087
    Thanks
    345
    Thanked
    700 times in 484 posts

    Re: Interesting article on piracy, DRM etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenbandit View Post
    I take the view that hardcore gamers using the latest hardware are best served by PCs and what they can offer.
    True, for res/textures/fps etc then a (high-end) PC cannot be beaten assuming you have the cash to keep up with the progress.

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenbandit View Post
    Each console is merely dead-end technology bound to be obsolete within a few years but I can still play DOOM on my PC (I don't but I could if I wanted to).
    True, but hardware-wise the same can be said for a PC, any PC part no matter how high-end will be obsolete at some point. In fact I'd argue the timescale for a PC to become useless to a hardcore gamer is significantly less than the life of a console. As for games then if your current gen console won't play it (i'm looking at you PS3) then the old ones would always be available. Not a perfect solution by any standard but I've not played an old game for aaaaaages, infact my last one was Duke Nukem on my 360! Look at compatability issues old PC games have with new OSs

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenbandit View Post
    But aren't some console games also "protected"?
    Yes, all of them probably, but it doesn't matter, they just 'work' with the hardware you have.
    No worrying about something installing itself secrectly on your PC, breaking your DVD drive, crashing due to outdated drivers/hardware configuration. The only people worried about protection on consoles are those who would pirate games so can be ignored.


    I never thought I'd ever argue console>PC (i'm only looking at gaming here) but I just don't see the PC ever regaining it's hold

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. corrupted DRM
    By Deadlight in forum Software
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 09-06-2007, 03:26 AM
  2. Cut software piracy, boost UK economy?
    By Trippledence in forum Question Time
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 20-12-2005, 04:29 PM
  3. Sun spearheads open DRM
    By Steve in forum HEXUS News
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 22-08-2005, 11:22 AM
  4. Replies: 25
    Last Post: 25-08-2004, 06:18 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •