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Thread: Nintendo Boss a tad bit annoyed...

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    Nintendo Boss a tad bit annoyed...

    Nintendo Europe managing director David Gosen has strongly criticised Microsoft for attempting to drive the industry to a hardware transition too early, and also attacked the games media for its focus on the next generation.

    Speaking at the ELSPA Games Summit in London, Gosen described the industry's current generational cycle as a "self-fulfilling prophecy," saying that the industry was stuck in a mindset where "five to six years is right, and come what may, we're going to stick to it."

    While he admitted that it was too late to change this cycle this time around, he argued that it was vital that the industry break out of it in the future - and he had some particularly barbed comments for Microsoft, for whom he claimed that games profitability "is not their key motivation" in aiming to launch the Xbox' successor during 2005, after only a four year lifespan for the original console.

    "In every cycle, some manufacturer not profiting from the current cycle is eager to kick-start the next one," he commented, but went on to suggest that first-mover advantage was not necessarily as important as it may seem, quoting the example of failed consoles such as the 3DO which launched well ahead of rival systems.

    He also criticised the games media for focusing too much on next generation software and hardware, to the exclusion of the current generation. "For every game magazine editor bored with current products, there are hundreds of thousands of gamers around the world just discovering them," he said.

    "Hard as it may be for those editors to believe, not everyone outside their circle is prepared to pay a high price for a new console," he continued, going on to argue that "today's gamers are still hungry for today's games," quoting a statistic which showed that 33 per cent of GameCube purchasers last Christmas already owned a PS2 or Xbox.

    Gosen was also critical of a number of other trends in the industry, picking out the current vogue for mature games in particular as a problem. "Grand Theft Auto, ultimately, is a dead end street," he told the summit, saying that "as a businessperson, I don't relish the role of defending our business from charges of gratuitous violence."

    He accused the industry of paying too much attention to a narrow demographic of consumers who have grown up with videogames and are now in their thirties, and failing to appeal beyond those boundaries - either to older or female audiences, citing the example of the hugely popular Pogo.com game website, or to the ten year-old gamers whom he described as vital to repopulating the industry.

    European retailers also came under fire, with Gosen attacking the current trend for bundling huge numbers of games with consoles. "If we give consumers ten games in a bundle, of which eight are sure to disappoint, what have we actually achieved?" he asked. "A disaffected consumer."

    "Every free game is taking away hours that could be spent playing games they had actually paid for - imagine that!"

    However, he said that despite all the challenges, he remained optimistic for the coming transition to next generation consoles. "We are smarter for having lived through these transitions before," he said, " and, I believe, learning from them." He went on to argue that it was in the power of the industry "to avoid artificially triggering a new generation before we are ready to deliver it."
    He's got some good points, I think I agree about the console cycle - the PS 1 took a while before the real gems of games came out and it took a while before they really got the maximum out of it. Microsoft have pushed things a bit too fast and people will moan when a new console comes out after only a few years but they will begin to expect it.

    I agree with the first part of the bundles bit - it always seems to be one goodish game and one or two naff games.

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    Sounds like someone who is bitter at being left far behind the game?

    Butuz

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    I can agree with some of the points definately. As an avid PC gamer (I do have a Gamecube and PS2 also) it is getting ridiculous how you have to upgrade virtually each time a new top title gets released as the developers are using hardware that isn't yet available to us, you dont have a complete top end of a system then you have difficulty running a game.

    Good example of this is Farcry. Me having the Barton 2500+, 512 ram and Rad 9600 Pro meant that I had to run it in 800x600 with medium detail settings. My brother has a Rad 9200, XP 2200+ and 1 Gb of ram and he cant even run it in 640x480 with low detail as the frame rate is that poor. I did manage to up everything on mine after putting in an extra 512 ram. You want to run this with the highest detail, AA and resolution then you need 3 Ghz+ and Rad 9800 Pro minumum.

    As consumers not everyone can afford systems like that and the average PC user that wants to run a few games has less of a system that I have.

    Moving onto the consoles, things are moving to fast, once again its the money. The best looking games for the PS1 came out really late in its life as developers pushed the console to the limit and used its abilities to do what they wanted to do. Now they just churn things out on average platorms (PS2 and X Box with this one mainly, the platforms can do alot more but they arnt getting used fully to the ability) Nintendo do tend to release decent titles with loads of work put into them. The Metal Gear remake on the Gamecube is amazing and has done justice to the PS1 origional.

    Overall I personally think developers they should slow things down a bit and think about what people at home will actually have in their PC's and push to release top titles that will run well on average spec anything else is a bonus for the people that have higher specs.

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    Nintendo are far from "behind the game" as you put it. They still dominate the handheld market, and their GameCube is a decent console loads of good games for it. Its about time people stopped slagging the likes of sony and nintendo for their consoles, at the time the ps2 was a great console just there is a lack of decent games at the moment, apart from the new MGS and GT4 thats comming that should breath new life into it, and nintendo said on record, we don't want a home entertainment system its a games console and people said it was pants cos it didn't play DVD's it was never meant to so stop complaining. Nintendo have a load of good games comming, not to mention the new zelda and the res evil both are pushing the little box for everything it has and they are looking impressive

    The only reason for x-box two comming out so soon is that MS are losing money on the x-box which they have admitted so bring out a new console to get interest and be labeled the best on the market to get the sales, but personally the x-box doesnt have that many exclusive games that aren't on other consoles and the decent x-box games are out on pc anyway and do it much better.

    There are also rumours that sega are comming back with a bang so no doubt I could see MS losing out to sega as we all know how good the dreamcast was but not many games for it. At the end of the day a console is a console you dont need all this crap to play movies and run linux on it, if it plays games the jobs a goodun' simple as.

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    Ummm, MS haven't even announced Xbox 2 yet. Nintendo have announced their new "Revolution" and Sony have talked at length about their Cell processors for the PS3, so infact, MS are the only one of the big three who are yet to make public comitments to it. This is a direct quote from a very recent interview with the head of MS Game Studios, Shane Kim:

    Well, like I said, we're focused on this generation, we're focused on Xbox. We've got a lot of great things that we're talking about for this generation. We're no talking about any next-generation hardware.
    And, to be honest, I don't think Nintendo or Sony have any right to criticize MS at the moment, based on what each of their consoles have offered this year. There is a succession of high quality titles for the Xbox right now and for the remainder of the year, titles which, on the face of it, Nintendo can't match, and Sony can only match with the old faithful - MGS and GT.

    This guy does make one of two fair points, but it's hardly as serious as he is making out. Ninty have been doing this a lot recently, lashing out at the industry. To me it just stinks of their new attitude which has been present for a while now. It's a shame, because a Ninty at their best is a wonderous thing, but, IMO, they haven't been at their best for a long time. I'd love them to back all this hot air up with games, my GC is in need of it, but I just can't see it from a company who seem to hate games.

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    well, the xbox has lasted four years. let's look at previous nintendo consoles...
    nes - July 15, 1983
    snes - November 21, 1990
    n64 - June 23, 1996
    gc - September 14, 2001

    i don't know what david gosen is going on about. the first three nintendo consoles lasted 7, 6 and 5 years. so the gamecube should last 4...



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    Quote Originally Posted by Butuz
    Sounds like someone who is bitter at being left far behind the game?

    Butuz
    That's my impression. Comparing the PC industry (6 month graphics card turnover) to a 5-6 YEAR console cycle is impracticle. As long as the consoles are backward compatible a newer one shouldnt be too much of a problem. I can see what MS are doing and its either clever or stupid, and Nintendo dont like other people shifting what they see is their industry imo.
    I dont like sig pics so i turn off sigs Which doesnt help when i dont know what ive written here! DOH!

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    Thing about Nintendo is that their games, although not necessarily more advanced, tend to be more fun, which is why I like nintendo above Sony or MS for consoles. It seems to me like the Nintendo way of doing things ios to concentrate on playability, where the others concentrate on making games look good etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by R.B.
    Ummm, MS haven't even announced Xbox 2 yet. Nintendo have announced their new "Revolution" and Sony have talked at length about their Cell processors for the PS3, so infact, MS are the only one of the big three who are yet to make public comitments to it. This is a direct quote from a very recent interview with the head of MS Game Studios, Shane Kim:



    And, to be honest, I don't think Nintendo or Sony have any right to criticize MS at the moment, based on what each of their consoles have offered this year. There is a succession of high quality titles for the Xbox right now and for the remainder of the year, titles which, on the face of it, Nintendo can't match, and Sony can only match with the old faithful - MGS and GT.

    This guy does make one of two fair points, but it's hardly as serious as he is making out. Ninty have been doing this a lot recently, lashing out at the industry. To me it just stinks of their new attitude which has been present for a while now. It's a shame, because a Ninty at their best is a wonderous thing, but, IMO, they haven't been at their best for a long time. I'd love them to back all this hot air up with games, my GC is in need of it, but I just can't see it from a company who seem to hate games.

    *cough*LINK *cough*

    think Xbox have already got some of the consle running??

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    I didn't say they hadn't already got it running, I'd be suprised if they hadn't. I said that they're the only one of the three that haven't announced anything - therefore I can't see how anyone can say that MS are pushing the next gen.

    ... Besides, I dunno about everyone else, but I'm not entirely convinced that the screen shot in that link is real. It could well be, but I'd take anything with a pinch of salt unless it comes from MS themselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grey M@a
    not to mention the new zelda and the res evil both are pushing the little box for everything it has
    any diea how hard cel shading pushes a graphics card? wind waker was much harder on the cube than the upcoming one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by R.B.
    MS are the only one of the big three who are yet to make public comitments to it.
    they've just widely announced that they have partnered with several large companies for their next generation console, and that they plan to have such'n'such a number of chips etc.

    no next gen console, just a bunch of next gen parts in a bucket?

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    Quote Originally Posted by directhex
    no next gen console, just a bunch of next gen parts in a bucket?
    Not sure what you mean by that...

    As for the rest of it, could you be a bit more specific? I could be wrong, but I follow things fairly closely and I haven't seen much in the way of announcements. As far as I've seen, the specifics of the next Xbox are being outright avoided in discussion. The only recent thing I've seen is the highly speculative Xbox convergeance with the PC.

    http://money.cnn.com/2004/05/26/comm...ming/index.htm

    If there's something of the specific components/plans of the Xbox 2 I've missed, I'd love a link

    On other points, the MS big wigs seem to be universally stating that software is THE factor.

    I'd just like to state at this point that I'm not an Xbox fanboy, I have a GC, a PS2, an Xbox and a PC. But in many respects I think they deserve praise, regardless of the state of their new hardware, and certainly if this negative blah blah blah is all that Nintendo can come up with in responce. I want them to do their talking in games, I hope they will.
    Last edited by R.B.; 10-06-2004 at 04:37 PM.

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    I can see why he's making his point about the narrow market of games types for X-box and PS2, but I think that he is missing the point. The 30year olds that have grown up with games are those that have the most disposable income and thus will buy a high proportion of games sold. Thus games designers aim at them for the biggest sales.

    The gamecube has a fun / kids image and thus developers make that type of game for it. Especially with the handheld link.

    In the future I think that we will reach a plateau with respect to visuals, and developers will return to working on content
    If it ain't broke, fetch a bigger hammer

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    Microsoft's not made any official announcements and won't because of one thing - Sony.
    The simple truth is that M$ are a bit worried about the fact that if they release their console specs too early that Sony and even Nintendo will delay there release or have time to make there consoles more powerful, in fact the last thing i read about this was that Sony where going to release the final specs of there machine the same week that the X-Box 2 is released. I mean honestly not unless your a diehard fan of the X-Box your going to wait and see what is on offer from Nintendo and Sony before you spend £300 on a console.

    This could go in Sony's favour, the cell processor from what I understand isn't like what is already on the market because of it chip network abilities, with out going into design issues basically you just get more power just by adding more chips, its all worked out at hardware level unlike a PC based system which is half hardware and half OS level. This would allow for Sony to beef up there system to beat Microsoft, but at the same time this might play into Microsoft’s hands, the PS3 would cost more too produce than the X-Box 2 and so if a price war kicked off, Sony would start to make a loss first.

    Already there have been several rumours that the X-Box 2 is going to have 4 processors and we already know that ATI is using a specially designed graphics card for it (probably the next one along on the XT800 range), also Microsoft has also made a deal with a flash card producer so memory cards are in and the hard drive will be out or an option buy like the PS 2. Now while this is all rumour with no official announcement from MS it comes in the most part from the third parties involved ATI etc etc. And although Microsoft hasn’t released an official statement they have said a fair bit in interviews.

    As for the comments on games, he's from Nintendo! They have a Fat Italian Plumber as there Mascot (although it looks like Link might stab him in the back.... ), he's just bitter that Gran Theft Auto cleaned house on PS2, PC and X-Box.
    All consoles have a good line up this year (just have a look at the E3) but the focus is on big in-house names as usual: Gran Tourismo and Meltal Gear Solid for the Playstation 2, Halo 2 for the X-Box and Zelda for the Gamecube. But saying that those are the only games coming out this year is a bit unfair because I have only a PS2 and I know of at least 10 games that are kicking about this year that are making me moist ( Happy image for you! ) to name a few GT4, MGS 3, Final Fantasy 12, Driver 3, Grand Theft Auto 4, Street Fighter 3, Madden 2005, Head Hunter Redemption, Killzone and Tekken 5, all of which are beginning to push the PS2 to the limits. I should imagine that someone can do this for the X-Box 2 and Nintendo as well.

    The interesting thing is the X-Box has come under fire for lack of quality over the last year, first from it's own developers who have cut the amount of in-house releases this year to concentrate on quality, and now in the Asian market about True Fantasy Online (dropped due to quality). The PS2 has also come under fire for its online games, main that there are not enough. Nintendo just seems to come under fire regardless (even thought they did bloody well over Christmas).

    The other thing that I think people have missed is the magic selling point for consoles, Nintendo have already done it but I reckon your going to see the PS2 drop to the under £100 mark this Christmas and that well boost sales and I reckon the X-Box will follow suit.

    Gosens comments come at the same time as Nintendo president Satoru Iwata has made some comments about the future of Nintendo...
    Nintendo it seems don't want in this power console fight and are going to take the innovation route by trying to make something new, hence the name Revolution for the next console and the Dual Screen.
    What’s really interesting about this attack is it's not really aim at us (poor old Joe public) it's aimed at the developers, their is a real fear that things are moving too fast and that the tools for creating games are lagging behind the hardware. For Example A Gran Tourismo 2 car took one 3D Artist 1 week to make, A Gran Tourismo 4 car takes the same artist over a month.
    I don't know about Nintendo and Microsoft but I know that Sony are planning for this they have already announced a cell based workstation designed purely for the use of creating games, not just for the Playstaion either.
    So it's more a careful aimed kick to make the developers whinge about Microsoft pushing things too fast and playing on their fears.

    I have to admit I am a die-hard Sony fan and so I can be a little biased but my reasons for not liking Microsoft and the X-Box was because I didn't like the way it was a PC more than a console - I am interested this time to see what they can really come up with now they are doing a console. I bet someone says ' it's all the same technology....' lol I warn you if someone says that I write an equally long and boring post trying to dig myself out of that hole.

    Oh and I get most of my news tid bits here:
    http://www.gamesindustry.biz/
    And a few more game related here :
    http://spong.com/detail/news.asp?type=n

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gosen
    Nintendo Europe managing director David Gosen has strongly criticised Microsoft for attempting to drive the industry to a hardware transition too early, and also attacked the games media for its focus on the next generation.
    The media focuses on what the people who pay their wages want to hear.
    If xbox2 launches early, well that didnt help the DC or the saturn...

    Speaking at the ELSPA Games Summit in London, Gosen described the industry's current generational cycle as a "self-fulfilling prophecy," saying that the industry was stuck in a mindset where "five to six years is right, and come what may, we're going to stick to it."
    I dont really see how 5-6 years can be made to seem so short and/or bad.
    If consoles actually launch at a decent price(remember my £450 PS1 and £400 PS2, and that was 5-6months after launch) this would make a big difference, to actual lifespan..

    While he admitted that it was too late to change this cycle this time around, he argued that it was vital that the industry break out of it in the future - and he had some particularly barbed comments for Microsoft, for whom he claimed that games profitability "is not their key motivation" in aiming to launch the Xbox' successor during 2005, after only a four year lifespan for the original console.
    Why does he care if xbox has a short lifespan? Ninty can CHOOSE not to do this.

    "In every cycle, some manufacturer not profiting from the current cycle is eager to kick-start the next one," he commented, but went on to suggest that first-mover advantage was not necessarily as important as it may seem, quoting the example of failed consoles such as the 3DO which launched well ahead of rival systems.
    So he complains about systems being launched early, then says it isnt a guarantee of success, so why is he whining?

    He also criticised the games media for focusing too much on next generation software and hardware, to the exclusion of the current generation. "For every game magazine editor bored with current products, there are hundreds of thousands of gamers around the world just discovering them," he said.
    Review and Preview, every magazine and site does both.

    Gosen was also critical of a number of other trends in the industry, picking out the current vogue for mature games in particular as a problem. "Grand Theft Auto, ultimately, is a dead end street," he told the summit, saying that "as a businessperson, I don't relish the role of defending our business from charges of gratuitous violence."
    GTA is a dead end street? GTA is slowly becoming the most open ended actionrpg ever...
    the combat in it isnt even the biggest part of it for me.

    Carmageddon is what, 9 years old?

    He accused the industry of paying too much attention to a narrow demographic of consumers who have grown up with videogames and are now in their thirties, and failing to appeal beyond those boundaries - either to older or female audiences, citing the example of the hugely popular Pogo.com game website, or to the ten year-old gamers whom he described as vital to repopulating the industry.
    How many ****ty childish games get made a year? I'm fairly sure more then ****ty mature games.

    European retailers also came under fire, with Gosen attacking the current trend for bundling huge numbers of games with consoles. "If we give consumers ten games in a bundle, of which eight are sure to disappoint, what have we actually achieved?" he asked. "A disaffected consumer."
    Maybe if Ninty Europe actually managed to localise and launch some decent nintendo games they wouldnt do this.

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