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Thread: GAMING, the future.

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    Re: GAMING, the future.

    Quote Originally Posted by hannahaha View Post
    Wow this was a great achievement of our technology and another progress on gaming field. I would like to try it but I know it will be super mega duper expensive.
    More importantly - It still looks like a computer game so isn't as immersive as you'd expect.... it's already being done by companies looking to replace things like LazerQuest... and by using VR you've just automatically excluded all the people outside the typical human range of visual acuity on which it's based, as surely as releasing a film in 3D.
    Add to that several other physical limitations and your forward progress has a fair few steps backward to contend with.

    That's without looking at the price, which I imagine is based around making a suitable profit anyway.

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    Re: GAMING, the future.

    This thread has led me into some interesting areas of development and reading about some interesting projects like the Metamakers Institute at Falmouth uni.

    With VR the talk is of the next generation of headsets. So something like the HTC pro(wireless), but in future at a greatly reduced cost. Also as uses are found for VR like the MelodyVR music concert app, this will make them interesting to a wider audience. I think there will come a point where the cost of a VR set up will be off set by not requiring a screen any more.

    I do buy some games just to see what developers can do. I'll buy that HellBlade Suena's sacrifice, just to see what's possible when actors replace animated characters(the game itself isn't supposed to be that good!).

    I've been trying to construct a sort of timeline showing how AI has been used in games going back to Space Invaders. It seems to mostly have been used; to enhance gameplay, to control the movement of NPCs and give the appearance that NPCs are hunting players based on disturbances in the environment. Also data feedback, so that Prof. Arend Hintze developed an AI system that matched players ability and increased interactivity(I think that's the level of AI most of us recognise).

    Some games use AI ; to create whole universes using programmatic generation(No Man's Sky), to create new worlds and stories for players to explore on each play(Terraria and Salt), as AI storyteller creating events and mini narratives(Rimworld). I think we need tech visionaries, who may have no idea about how they are going to achieve their aims, but usually either pay someone to create the tech necessary, or get creative themselves with existing tech.
    Last edited by johnroe; 03-05-2018 at 05:45 PM. Reason: can't freakin spell!

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    Re: GAMING, the future.

    Well, it's your future, so have fun....

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    Re: GAMING, the future.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ttaskmaster View Post
    Well, it's your future, so have fun....
    I'm not sure what you mean? I just passed a significant older birthday(my son got me into gaming and now it's something we share and debate about), but one thing that keeps life exciting is the continuing development of cultural forms. I never brood about death, but I would like to be around to see all the new and exciting tech developments.

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    Re: GAMING, the future.

    Quote Originally Posted by johnroe View Post
    I'm not sure what you mean? I just passed a significant older birthday(my son got me into gaming and now it's something we share and debate about), but one thing that keeps life exciting is the continuing development of cultural forms. I never brood about death, but I would like to be around to see all the new and exciting tech developments.
    It means what it means. Exactly as written. I'm sure an auteur would have done a far better job of writing it and my post would have been far more engaging if some tech wizards had put it into VR, but the words themselves do still work perfectly fine...

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    Re: GAMING, the future.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ttaskmaster View Post
    It means what it means. Exactly as written. I'm sure an auteur would have done a far better job of writing it and my post would have been far more engaging if some tech wizards had put it into VR, but the words themselves do still work perfectly fine...
    If words aren't working, perhaps we need it expressed in interpretive dance.

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    Re: GAMING, the future.

    Quote Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix View Post
    If words aren't working, perhaps we need it expressed in interpretive dance.
    And what's wrong with just putting a load of RGBs on it...?

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    Re: GAMING, the future.

    I think I know why some people here are not taking you very seriously, your whole argument is old.
    I remember this basic "why can't games be better at telling stories" from at least 10years ago.
    Hollywood names got involved with a few games and the results where generally bad and some games try to emulate movies, the first call of duty single player campaign was basically just scenes ripped out for 4 or 5 war movies.

    And story is alive and well in games, just not in the "triple-A" space, you need to look at smaller games.
    But at the same time you can say something very similar about movies, the bigger the film the more bland, spectacular and less meaningful story.

    Still to this day one of the biggest arguments against making games more movie like is that games are active and movies passive.

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    Re: GAMING, the future.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pob255 View Post
    I think I know why some people here are not taking you very seriously, your whole argument is old.
    So is he, apparently...significantly!!
    I honestly thought he was about 25 or something...

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    Re: GAMING, the future.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ttaskmaster View Post
    So is he, apparently...significantly!!
    I honestly thought he was about 25 or something...
    That's called stereotyping. Maybe you think everyone who is conversant say with postmodernist ideas is younger. Actually pm ideas(ie: philosophical/ psychological/political/social/cultural critiques) just reflect changes in modern culture brought about by tech and competing ideologies. Actually that period of ideas is said to have started after 1945. I'm amazed that some people still haven't encountered them.

    As I said somewhere on this forum, I'm sure people wouldn't be so negative and boring, if there wasn't a media for them to express that.

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    Re: GAMING, the future.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pob255 View Post
    I think I know why some people here are not taking you very seriously, your whole argument is old.
    I remember this basic "why can't games be better at telling stories" from at least 10years ago.
    Hollywood names got involved with a few games and the results where generally bad and some games try to emulate movies, the first call of duty single player campaign was basically just scenes ripped out for 4 or 5 war movies.

    And story is alive and well in games, just not in the "triple-A" space, you need to look at smaller games.
    But at the same time you can say something very similar about movies, the bigger the film the more bland, spectacular and less meaningful story.

    Still to this day one of the biggest arguments against making games more movie like is that games are active and movies passive.
    I hear what you're saying. The thing is this 'the argument is old' doesn't really work for new forum members. I wasn't gaming ten years ago, so the different ideas wouldn't have even been on my radar(besides paraphrasing what someone else said, ten years is a long time in both the tech and gaming worlds).

    Also I use forums as a way of exploring ideas; I listen to what other people say based on their experience of gaming and that leads me to research myself(and quite frankly if this is old, why hasn't anyone got any real ideas). I've sort of moved away from the original idea that games could be more like films, although I've been reading that many people work in both media simultaneously. I now see AI(another of my topics of interest) as the real way to make games feel more real, more challenging. It seems that the main problem with AI, is protecting the ego of the player. The AI system that beat the top Dota2 players was stored on a USB.

    I think the simplest way to understand post modernism is that after WW2, Europe was physically, morally and culturally destroyed. So a form of fragmented culture emerged, but wary of falling into all the traps of modernism(as a continuation of the Enlightenment) that had led to the destruction. So it refutes grand narratives, religious and political ideologies. It believed in a democratisation through culture, no more high and low culture. You see it in many films and games where there is referencing of other cultural forms. It uses irony and promotes multiple possibilities and multiple viewpoints with a sense of 'playing' in culture.

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    Re: GAMING, the future.

    This is what I object to: you've managed to take a relatively simple idea, that WW2 was a great leveller, that affected rich and poor alike, that class distinctions necessarily became far more blurred, and done what Zizek loves to do, i.e. tart it up around some big words to make it seem more inaccessible than it actually is without saying anything of value beyond the simple version. 'It refutes grand narratives, religious and political ideologies'. Lol no it doesn't. Rothko and Pollock were funded by the CIA, and the progression of art always necessitates leaving behind previous cultural norms for new ones. Europe was not morally or culturally destroyed in any sense of the words. WW2 did not fragment culture. How do you suppose that would have happened? How exactly were the traps of modernism responsible for the destruction? I take it back, it does add something to use all this sort of high language, it adds a boat load of confusion. When it comes to science, it's difficult to avoid using big words when you need to be accurate, but in the world of culture and language, the aim of the game is to make things more understandable, not less, so stop going out of your way to show people that you're more knowledgeable than they are, it's a highly disagreeable personality trait and it only makes you think you've won arguments.

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    Re: GAMING, the future.

    I’m not quite sure what relevance WW2 (over 70 years ago) has on the future of gaming using technology I dreamed of at the time (maybe in some Science Fiction writing) even though simulation technology has found its way into gaming and vice versa.

    So unless someone can explain the relevance(I’m all ears ) perhaps we can keep the thread back on track?
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    Re: GAMING, the future.

    The point is that anyone who has been to uni in the last thirty years is conversant with these ideas. I was at uni fifteen years ago and there; post modern writers, post structuralists, hard Left writers who inspired the '68 uprisings and feminist writers were the majority of the reading list. So most of the games designers and film makers and artists working today are using these ideas in there work. There's a long list of films that are classed as PM; Memento, Synecdoche New York, Pulp Fiction, etc. I would class GTA V as a game inspired by PM ideas; the ability to shift between characters, the irony and satire, the references. After a quick look around these games are also considered to incorporate PM themes>Metal Gear Solid 2, Bioshock Infinity, Spec Ops, Hotline Miami, The Secret of Monkey Island(+Super Meat Boy and Angry Video Game Nerd Adventure).

    One of the main ideas of PM was the blurring of boundaries between different cultural forms, and that includes forms from different times. Modern media (YT for example) make this easy due to accessibility, and modern software enables artists to mix styles and ideas, whether musically or visually. So the whole of culture is the source; ideas, imagery are in free flux and there is no distinction between forms like films and games.
    Last edited by johnroe; 06-05-2018 at 07:31 PM. Reason: adding PM games to list

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    Re: GAMING, the future.

    Quote Originally Posted by johnroe View Post
    The point is that anyone who has been to uni in the last thirty years is conversant with these ideas.
    Just no. All reality is subjective, yours is a bit more subjective than most, it seems.

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    Re: GAMING, the future.

    Quote Originally Posted by wazzickle View Post
    This is what I object to: you've managed to take a relatively simple idea, that WW2 was a great leveller, that affected rich and poor alike, that class distinctions necessarily became far more blurred, and done what Zizek loves to do, i.e. tart it up around some big words to make it seem more inaccessible than it actually is without saying anything of value beyond the simple version. 'It refutes grand narratives, religious and political ideologies'. Lol no it doesn't. Rothko and Pollock were funded by the CIA, and the progression of art always necessitates leaving behind previous cultural norms for new ones. Europe was not morally or culturally destroyed in any sense of the words. WW2 did not fragment culture. How do you suppose that would have happened? How exactly were the traps of modernism responsible for the destruction? I take it back, it does add something to use all this sort of high language, it adds a boat load of confusion. When it comes to science, it's difficult to avoid using big words when you need to be accurate, but in the world of culture and language, the aim of the game is to make things more understandable, not less, so stop going out of your way to show people that you're more knowledgeable than they are, it's a highly disagreeable personality trait and it only makes you think you've won arguments.
    wazzickle>where to start! Frankly I was hoping that no one who actually understands PM ideas read my 'post modernism simplified version above', I vastly over simplified it. There are many reasons why Europe was morally and culturally destroyed; book burning and art destruction by the nazis, libraries and galleries destroyed. Many of the artists, film makers, writers and thinkers had fled to America. A simple visual analogy, before WW2 Europe was a 'diamond' culturally, mostly centred in Germany, France, Italy. The disgust at what the Enlightenment/Modernism had led to, led to a revolution through culture. If the European 'diamond' of culture was shattered, people thought do we rebuild it in it's previous form, or do we restructure it creating a new culture with new forms.

    I'm not sure where Rothko and Pollack fit into this, I know they were funded by the New Deal(and I have seen reference to the CIA), but I'm not sure what the relevance is.

    I think you are getting it the wrong way round. I'm just referencing a few of the hundreds of writers I've read, the ones who are engaging with contemporary culture. I can't help being influenced by their ideas. What I find interesting is that those who aren't conversant with these ideas directly, but still are encountering the effects in contemporary culture, play the ignorant card(I call it my 'hippos in a water hole theory' of forums).
    Post modern ideas did exist prior to 1945(Borges talks about a map maker who made a map of his country so detailed that it was the size of the country and was lain across the real landscape) and many Modernist ideas still persist. The main thing about doing a degree, is it opens your mind. Forums are supposed to be an open space where people can discuss ideas. It's not about winning arguments. I could use all the big terms like 'intertextuality' for what I described in the post above, so to some degree I agree those terms can often lead to confusion.
    I'll willingly discuss anything, but I'm not going to limit my references to suit those who may have a more specific knowledge base. I enjoy testing ideas out, playing with cultural forms. If someone makes a valid point I'll be the first to accept it. Obviously you're aware of my references, I know Zizek is just as flawed as the rest of us, but I respect his knowledge base. I'd certainly rather discuss culture and how modern tech makes post modernist ideas possible, than discussing the Scan catalogue. I'll stick a clip in the film section where Zizek gives a Lacanian/Freudian analysis of how Hitchcock took a Daphne Du Maurier story and turned it into The Birds. Feel free to critique!

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