Is CS going to stop soon? (And general Steam Q&A)

[p0lish]

Steam could be the last nail to Valve's coffin if keeps fcuking up so often. It is just sad how Valve is treating its biggest fans for all their loyalty and support. They did deserve to be haxored. Just recall how many times CZ release was postponed? I had a chance to play it and let me say - I'd rather play scrabble than that lame overhyped piece of p00.

Nuff said - less BS more games like MaxPayne2 ;O

[directhex]

Originally posted by Dave_07
Any more questions?

--jo

Yes, I don't quite understand. You mean to say when HL2 & CS:CZ are released I will have to use seperate CD keys to play them online, eg either use the CD Key that comes with the copy of HL2 & CS:CZ, can't you just use your first and original CD Key im my case the one I got with my single cd "game of the year edition" of HL1

Dave

currently Steam allows one game and one game only - Half Life. You feed it a CD key and it allows you to play any supported game BASED on Half Life (hence Counterstrike is a separate download, but will use the same key as, say, Ricochet or DMC). When Counterstrike Condition Zero is released, it is a NEW and RETAIL product, not just a mod. it will require a NEW CD key for CSCZ only, which can be either bought in a store with a CD or online as key-only. Half-Life 2 will be the same - you can either buy the product in the stores or online, but you certainly can't play CSCZ or HL2 with a CD key from HL1. make sense?

--jo

[directhex]

Originally posted by Agent
Can you find me out a LEMUR!!! pic please ?

--jo

[directhex]

Originally posted by p0lish
Steam could be the last nail to Valve's coffin if keeps fcuking up so often. It is just sad how Valve is treating its biggest fans for all their loyalty and support. They did deserve to be haxored. Just recall how many times CZ release was postponed? I had a chance to play it and let me say - I'd rather play scrabble than that lame overhyped piece of p00.

Nuff said - less BS more games like MaxPayne2 ;O

people fear change. it's a fact manifested throughout history. new ideas and concepts scare the bejesus out of people, because they are used to everything remaining the same at all times. lets' examine a few cases in point. Steam's launch was messed up. agreed. the 1.0.0.0 client was bugged to buggery. i faced pleanty of errors myself. that was a month ago. there have been 8 updates since then. already it loads faster & uses far less memory, is far far more stable, no longer throws up bloody SteamID Ticket errors.

loyalty and support? don't make me laugh. every single update to Counterstrike has caused a million angry 12-year-olds with broken caps-lock keys to swarm online and moan about how great the last version was & how they demand a return to it. 1.6-1.0, all the betas, nothing but constant whining. support? imagine the financial perspective for Valve. running a Master Server costs a HELL of a lot of money. every whiny 12 year old costs valve. is that being covered by the £10 someone spent on HL a few years ago? if a game gets sold for £35, the developers get £1-£3 fo that money, the publishers £5-£15. the "biggest fans" may be partically loyal ("i hate this game since you made a 0.1 version change so i'm gonna play it to spite you! ha"), but supportive? nowhere close.

late game releases? whoop de doo, that's never happened before in all of gaming history. slips happen. a lot of the problems lie in them initially going with an unskilled outsourced dev team (who got booted & ended up doing the dire PC port of Halo). is that fair reason for them to have several years of hard graft stolen? should, say, a teacher be allowed to steal the posessions of a pupil late to a lesson? that's a rediculous attitude - they don't OWE you a thing, and you certainly can't start calling down holy righteousness on what is, in the end, a business like any other. as for over-hype, that's not entirely their fault. EVERY game which is eagerly anticipated gets over-hyped, by those waiting to see it - slippage often accentuates matters, as people become even more impatient and frenzied, and in the end delivering what people expect becomes impossible.

as for more games like max payne 2 - what, reheating an old game with a few more polygons? sounds a LOT like CSCZ to me...

Originally posted by KDH
I dislike 1.6 and steam intensely, valve's disgusted me with this whole debacle.

in what way? disgusted you by changing things? see paragraph 1 above...

the disinformation brigade has done its job well in spreading dissent, but it's really starting to annoy me just how much wrong or unfounded info is floating around out there...

--jo

[KDH]

People fear change, does this mean people lock themselves inside and nail shut the windows when pepsi release pepsi TWIST! ?

No, you're using an overused saying that's based on vast sweeping changes, and applying it to a rather minor change.

I dislike steam.
I dislike it because it unnecessarily uses up cpu, bandwidth and memory when there are already better more streamlined systems out there(ASE for one).
I dislike it for still being buggy, yeah there's been 8 updates, including the one where steam deleted everything and tried redownload.

I hear as many fresh complaints as old, including many servers only now switching back from steam to WON.

Read: http://www.jarhedz.com/viewtopic.php...d5a23145#24256

I also find your assumption that I dislike steam purely because it's new to be rather utterly condescending and insulting.

[directhex]

Originally posted by KDH
People fear change, does this mean people lock themselves inside and nail shut the windows when pepsi release pepsi TWIST! ?

the coverage regarding that blue pepsi stuff when it was released suggests... yes!

No, you're using an overused saying that's based on vast sweeping changes, and applying it to a rather minor change.

if Steam was a minor change you wouldn't have such strong feelings about it now would you

I dislike steam.
I dislike it because it unnecessarily uses up cpu, bandwidth and memory when there are already better more streamlined systems out there(ASE for one).
I dislike it for still being buggy, yeah there's been 8 updates, including the one where steam deleted everything and tried redownload.

ASE is a server browser. Steam is a content delivery system. Steam usually uses a lot less RAM than the equivalent (MSN Messenger plus some IE downloads plus an IE window on play.com plus a server browser like ASE). if you prefer ASE's server browser, then use it! it works fine with Steam. bandwidth & CPU concerns are fair enough at the start - it takes a while for Steam to get 100% in synch with the servers, at which time it mellows out. i installed Steam on my PC whilst i was on a 28k modem, downloaded ALL the content for ALL the mods on said 28k connection, and was playing online with no undue bandwidth once things were fully synched. don't like the download-rather-than-CD basis? fair enough, that's being adressed. for a lot of people it's GREAT - it means i can go to my girlfriend's and play a game online without needing to say "dear me i need my CD and the case with the CD key on the front to go to my girlfriend's". the integrated update management means there's no longer "half life patch day", where the internet grinds to a halt, as the patches are small enough to only make a blip on the radar. it means 0 worries for cybercafes, who can reduce their maintenance time on HL-based games to zero.

bug removal is a constant process. think about the lead time between HL patches and their corresponding size, and compare to Steam. One 50Mb patch every 3 months or a few 1Mb patches a month - which one results in bugs being removed faster?

I hear as many fresh complaints as old, including many servers only now switching back from steam to WON.

Read: http://www.jarhedz.com/viewtopic.php...d5a23145#24256

i would, but it's a broken link. either way, it's a fairly moot point switching back to WON when WON is on the chopping block.

Steam presents a LOT of options which haven't been examined before. Cheap games, episodic gameplay, a whole host of options which simply aren't practical through traditional (CD) content delivery. I look forward to buying HL2 via Steam.

I also find your assumption that I dislike steam purely because it's new to be rather utterly condescending and insulting.

If you're going to make unsubstantiated points mirroring every single 12-year-old CS player on gaming forums worldwide, you're going to get lumped in with them. now that you've substantiated your points, i take it back.

--jo

[KDH]

Originally posted by directhex
[B]the coverage regarding that blue pepsi stuff when it was released suggests... yes!

It suggests people disliked it, like people disliked NEW coca cola and campaigned(succesfully) to get classic back.

Fear and dislike are not the same.

if Steam was a minor change you wouldn't have such strong feelings about it now would you

I said relatively.
Unless you would rate steam up with the war on iraq, omagh bomb etc.

ASE is a server browser. Steam is a content delivery system. Steam usually uses a lot less RAM than the equivalent (MSN Messenger plus some IE downloads plus an IE window on play.com plus a server browser like ASE). if you prefer ASE's server browser, then use it! it works fine with Steam.

ASE delivers it's patches/filters automatically, and rather hassle free-ly(?), steam is just an extension on this, only valve managed to go terribly teribbly wrong.

bandwidth & CPU concerns are fair enough at the start - it takes a while for Steam to get 100% in synch with the servers, at which time it mellows out. i installed Steam on my PC whilst i was on a 28k modem, downloaded ALL the content for ALL the mods on said 28k connection, and was playing online with no undue bandwidth once things were fully synched.

Many many people(myself included) find steam downloading unwanted/unnecessary updates in the background, even with the option off.

don't like the download-rather-than-CD basis? fair enough, that's being adressed. for a lot of people it's GREAT - it means i can go to my girlfriend's and play a game online without needing to say "dear me i need my CD and the case with the CD key on the front to go to my girlfriend's"

I prefer having 50+ mirrors and being able to choose actually.

the integrated update management means there's no longer "half life patch day", where the internet grinds to a halt, as the patches are small enough to only make a blip on the radar. it means 0 worries for cybercafes, who can reduce their maintenance time on HL-based games to zero.

This is wrong actually.
Why do you think they released steam installer + cs1.6 right after they released 1.6 on steam? It was because steam was buckling.

bug removal is a constant process. think about the lead time between HL patches and their corresponding size, and compare to Steam. One 50Mb patch every 3 months or a few 1Mb patches a month - which one results in bugs being removed faster?

I think you'll find that it also results in more new bugs getting introduced due to less testing time.
Actually, this has already been evidenced.

i would, but it's a broken link. either way, it's a fairly moot point switching back to WON when WON is on the chopping block.

That just goes to show just how pissed off some people have BECOME, that is after they tried steam.

Steam presents a LOT of options which haven't been examined before. Cheap games, episodic gameplay, a whole host of options which simply aren't practical through traditional (CD) content delivery. I look forward to buying HL2 via Steam.

Actually there have been quite a few episodic games about, none have been of note or succesful though.

As for cheap games, there are a few online only games producers about, Malfador Machinations for one.

[p0lish]

1. Maybe if you live in the US of A or another country with quality broadband STEAM works fine for you. I have a 512/128 connection and have never had problems running CS with WON servers. Steam is another pair of shoes. It lags, causes my PC to lock up randomly. I am speaking from experience, and expressing my honest opinion. I have played CS since it was realesed and honestly think that 1.4 was the best version. CS has been a breakthrough game - no doubt about that, 1.6 I could live with, but STEAM on the other hand is just a big pile of poo [I don't negate a possibility of changes for better].

2. 12 yr old kids will whine about anything. I am 23 and do not make comments on thing I have not tried or tested out.

3. As to the late release dates. How about people who have had CZ on preorder for over a year? This is not slippage. Delibrate overhyping a product that is nowhere near completion is not fair. MP2 has changed a lot since its predecessor was realeased. New GFX and FX, new physics engine and an addicitive PLOT make this game a sequel to die for.

To sum it up - most of the above issues are just personal opinions. I have been a hardocre CS player for quite some time and was always able to move on and accept the changes. I refuse this time.