Got a letter from Customs..

Hi all,
I ordered 200 cigarettes from a site a while back,and yesterday while I was out the postman put in a letter saying that the cigarettes had been seized.

I was always under the impression that you are entitled to 200 cigarettes for personal use from other countries from the EU, so I wasn't expecting this to happen. HAs anyone had anything simular happen to them?

I just wanted to see whether anyone thinks there is a case for this, as it said I could appeal for them to be returned in a magistrates court.

Cheers,

It all depends on what grounds they have seized the cigerettes for? I would call them and check, what cigerettes were they?

Customs do what the hell they want. The officer probably had a bad day.
Unless they were 'special' cigarettes? :)

Seized? I'd try and contact them and work out why they've seized 'em. If that doesn't work, well, they told you what to do, get to a magistrate's court. Or quit smoking :p

I think, even though its for your personal consumption, you bought them from this country and thus doesn't count.

I think you have to buy them when you're actually in a EU country and bring them back yourself - and if you're in the EU I think the limit is just under 3200 cigarettes. 200 cigarettes sounds like an atlantic job.

Perhaps they just want you to pay excise duty + VAT?

http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsP...HMCE_CL_001454

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mart_haj86

It all depends on what grounds they have seized the cigerettes for? I would call them and check, what cigerettes were they?

---

They said they were seized under section 139 of the Customs and Excise Act 1979 (CEMA), saying that they were liable to forfeitutre under section 49 of the CEMA. Is it me or have they contradicted themselves under why they were seized?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Whalefish

Customs do what the hell they want. The officer probably had a bad day.
Unless they were 'special' cigarettes? :)

---

Nope, not as far as I'm aware of- just normal Lambert and Butler :mrgreen:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Girdag

Or quit smoking :p

---

Tried twice but never got off them :undecided: Nature of job requires me to smoke during times of stress :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ACiD303

I think, even though its for your personal consumption, you bought them from this country and thus doesn't count.

I think you have to buy them when you're actually in a EU country and bring them back yourself - and if you're in the EU I think the limit is just under 3200 cigarettes. 200 cigarettes sounds like an atlantic job.

Perhaps they just want you to pay excise duty + VAT?

http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsP...HMCE_CL_001454

---

Nope, they said the "The belated payment of UK excise dury or VAT is not an option that Customs will consider" :(

The guy really was having a bad day then. Have you phoned them?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dave87

The guy really was having a bad day then. Have you phoned them?

---

Not yet, only got it yesterday so I doubt anyone is gonna answer the phone. I'll try tomorow during some spare time at work.

Looks a standard letter, but still it's completely stupid considering it looks like I've thrown £35 in the bin.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mosherben

but still it's completely stupid considering it looks like I've thrown £35 in the bin.

---

Not half as stupid as killing yourself by smoking them AND throwing £35 in the bin. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mosherben

They said they were seized under section 139 of the Customs and Excise Act 1979 (CEMA), saying that they were liable to forfeitutre under section 49 of the CEMA. Is it me or have they contradicted themselves under why they were seized?

---

I don't think they're contradictory, no.

Put up the exact wording and it might become clearer, but I suspect you're confusing two distinct points, given legal power in those two sections.

Section 49 defines the circumstances under which things may be subject to forfeiture, and section 139 defines the power to seize those things.

In other words, s.49 defines why their forfeit, and s.139 gives them the right to seize because they're forfeit under s.49.


I'd guess it's going to be something like ....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HMRC Notice of Seizure

Pursuant to Section 139(6) of the Customs and Excise Management Act 1979, and paragraph 1 of the 3rd Schedule thereto, the Commissioners of Customs and Excise hereby give you notice that by virtue of the powers contained in the Customs and Excise Management Act 1979 and enactments amending that Act, the aforesaid goods have been seized as liable to forfeiture upon the grounds that:

The aforesaid goods were found ..... and found to be non-UK excise duty paid cigarettes.

Whereby and by force of Section 49 of the Customs and Excise Management Act 1979, the aforesaid goods are liable to forfeiture.

---

The emphasis in bold is mine.

Basically, the situation is this. If you bring back goods with you from an EU, one set of rules apply. If you have them delivered commercially, another set does. In the latter case, excise duty must either be paid in advance or guaranteed, or goods are illegal and therefore liable to seizure.

While I sympathise with those getting caught unawares by this, like mosherben, think about the logic. Excise goods (mainly alcohol, tobacco products and perfunes) are a MAJOR source of revenue for the government. If anyone could avoid that excise duty just by mail-ordering abroad, how much of these goods would get bought in UK shops (duty paid)? Not much, is my bet.

So, essentially, ANY goods coming into the UK are subject to import restrictions, duty and tax unless some exemption exists. One such exemption is goods brought back in person by travellers, where no limits exist, provided the goods are for personal use.

ACiD303 mentioned a "limit" on such goods. There's no limit as such, but what there is is line above which you're going to have to do some fast talking to convince HMRC that the goods are for personal use. It's a rather fuzzy line, but 3000 cigarettes represents the upper end of it. Above that .... :(

And if you don't convince them .... you'll likely lose them. And possibly have any vehicle they're in seized too. So if you go abroad with a van (or estate car) to bring back a whole load of booze and fags, be prepared for a possible confrontation. And if you do it regularly, be prepared for a very probable one, sooner or later. This is precisely why a numberof people making such runs do so in hired cars. ;)

There are a number of factors that would be taken into account in such questionable personal imports. One would be the frequency of such trips. Once a year is one thing, once a week is another. Another factor would be the makeup of such imports. 20,000 cigareets of one brand is one thing, but 2,000 each of 10 different brands is another .... unless you smoke 10 different types of cigarette?

But mosherben, I think they've got you dead to rights on this one. Unless tax was paid in advance, or guaranteed in advance, those fags are illicit the moment they attempt to pass the customs barrier. And as such, you'll be lucky to ever see them, IMHO.


To rub salt into the wound, I wonder what happens to seized fags? Do get get destroyed, I wonder .... or are such seized and forfeited goods subsequently duty-stamped and sold by the state? ;)

It states that they will be destroyed if I dont appeal within a month of recieving the letter..

I guess I'm stumped..

They will be burnt, one by one...

I saw a TV program about Customs and they said that all the tons of tobacco and cigs all go to a special power station to get burned and turned into energy.

If they cost you £35 , you have only saved about a £5, was it worth it ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by schmunk

They will be burnt, one by one...

---

smoked by a C&E employee?

Most probably.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kickstart 1

If they cost you £35 , you have only saved about a £5, was it worth it ?

---

Well £10.. I tend to just buy 20 decks not cartons. Wouldn't have minded saving an extra £10 since I had to dash off by train to see the girlfriend yesterday :mad:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Clunk

I saw a TV program about Customs and they said that all the tons of tobacco and cigs all go to a special power station to get burned and turned into energy.

---

:shocked2:

Curiously, all the workers there seem to die of lung cancer. No-one's sure why.

¬_¬

Just spoken to some HMRC staff who I work with, and basicly there's nothing I can do about it. Not pleased at all :angst:

HMRC staff who you work with?.. so you work for HMRC?

Cigs are bad for you anyway!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mart_haj86

HMRC staff who you work with?.. so you work for HMRC?

---

I work with some HMRC staff.. but they do not work specifically with Customs.. we'll leave it at that.

Well will considering packing cigs in :-S

Its confusing but I believe that if you were not buying from a merchant in this country then you would have needed to pay an import duty because of the nature of the goods in this case cigarettes.

Seems silly but at its root its tax evasion, however the online merchant has led you to believe its ok.

I would consider a lesson learned and get on with something else.