Stop Teh Irans Getting Zomg Bombs!

[Brucelles]

Thank you George Galloway.

And regardless, you may notice we are not occupying Iran. If Iran is already fighting a proxy war against the Brits and Yanks, then alls fair in love and war.

Fire up the B52s I say.

Either the long range strategic bombers, or the rock band from Georgia.

The B-52's - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ah, yes. Sensible comment, that would be nice.

So, you would advocate mass-killings as a way of preventing mass killings? That's smart. And humanitarian. So you have established your credentials as someone in favour of hundreds of thousands of innocent deaths, so I shall bear that in mind.

Did you know that a huge majority of our diplomatic corp believe that Iran would be susceptible to negotiation? Iran has had sanctions imposed since the hostage crisis. Their main reason for winding up the USA is that the USA applied those sanctions that are crippling the Iranian economy (remind anyone of Iraq?) It has been implied many times that, were America to talk about lifting the sanctions, Iran would be happy to talk agreement. The trouble is that the US has been an implacable enemy of Iran since the overthrow of the Shiht, so Iran doesn't believe that America will ever just let them be. Which is why all this posturing goes on.

Still never ceases to amaze me how people bleat on and on about the 'unjust' wars that the USA/UK wage. Especially by people that have never actually been directly involved.

We really aren't alot different from Israel you know.

They are a Western Culture stuck out in the middel east surrounded by fanatics and fundamentalists.

Blitzen. You do understand that Israel is a Jewish fundamentalist state? That the Knesset is basically a collection of fanatics and fundamentalists? You do understand that Israel is in breach of countless UN resolutions pertaining to human rights abuses including Crimes Against Humanity (which are considered worse than war crimes).

I thank the British nature that we are way better than that. I don't think the British would stand for forcing 4 million people into grinding poverty, inflicting daily collective punishment upon them, letting their children die while waiting for one of the checkpoints to open.

Restriction of movement is only one of the daily crimes Israel perpetrates, but it's pretty effective at hurting innocent people.

The restrictions on movement that Israel has imposed on the Palestinian population in the Occupied Territories over the past five years are unprecedented in the history of the Israeli occupation in their scope, duration, and in the severity of damage that they cause to the three and a half million Palestinians who reside there. In the past, Israel has imposed either a comprehensive closure on the Occupied Territories or a curfew on a specific town or village to restrict Palestinian freedom of movement, but never has Israel imposed restrictions as sweeping and as prolonged as those currently in place.

Israel has divided the West Bank into a number of sections and makes it hard for Palestinians to move from one to another. Israel has set up dozens of checkpoints, prohibits Palestinians from traveling on dozens of roads, and forbids Palestinians without special permits to enter the Jordan Valley and East Jerusalem, both of which are integral parts of the West Bank. Also, Israel almost completely forbids the movement of Palestinians between the West Bank and the Gaza Strip and impedes Palestinians from entering Israel and from going abroad.

These restrictions have significantly affected the daily lives of Palestinians in commerce, in access to medical treatment and educational institutions, and in conducting social activities. Simple actions such as going to work in a nearby town, marketing farm produce, obtaining medical treatment, and visiting relatives entail bureaucratic procedures. Often, the end result is that the army denies the application for a movement permit.

International human rights law requires Israel to respect the right of residents of the Occupied Territories to move about freely in the occupied territory. This right is recognized in Article 13 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, and in Article 12 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights. Furthermore, international humanitarian law requires Israel, in its capacity as the occupier, to ensure the safety and well-being of the local residents, and to maintain, to the extent possible, normal living conditions.

Freedom of movement is important because it is a prerequisite to the exercise of other rights, such as those set forth in the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights. Among these are the right to work (Article 6), the right to an adequate standard of living (Article 11), the right to health (Article 12), the right to education (Article 13), and the right to protection of family life (Article 10).

When was Britain ever like that? OK, when we invented concentration camps in South Africa, but since then? I am quite frankly appalled that anyone might consider Britain to be anything like those fundamentalist genocides, the Israelis.

Try reading something of the reality on the ground in the West Bank and the other OTs, then tell me that we are as bad as Israel. B'Tselem is an Israeli organisation, dedicated to basic civil rights in Israel and the Occupied Territories.

[Stewart]

Actually I just wanted to do the B52 \ B52s joke. I'm sure the whole Iran thing will sort itself out.

Lets all chillax.

[No.72]

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad did say the 'evil zionist state' must be wiped off the map. I don't know what you think but that kind of points to wanting a nuke/s. They seem to be
directly leading to killing of our troops and they need sorting out. You can't really mess with the US and its palls and get away with it.

[Blitzen]

You've never done much European History then ?

Maybe not......but i do read the papers, watch the news and look at what is going on around me....do you?

ALL our closest neighbours would rather relax in their own little world than get involved.

Im not talking about years and years ago...Recent history shows who is prepared to stand up and be counted and who isn't.

The Poles and Dutch are ALWAYS the first there with us. Whatever the story behind it is. That is fact. (TBH, those two countries have some of the greatest armed forces in the world which i have seen).

The amount of 'armchair politicians' around that profess to know exactly all the rights and wrongs in the world but have absolutely zero first hand knowledge of any of it is still astonishing. Maybe, just maybe, if some of you have seen these things up really close around the world then you views would probably be alot different.

[Moby-Dick]

hmmm the Dutch - did you know that Dutch colonies were so bad , they willingly invited the Japanese in during the 2nd world war ? Its hardly ancient history - you only seem to think in very short time scales.

Is it possible that other countries are busy dealing with their own internal problems rather than attempting to police the world ?

Would you care to enlighten us which of these things that you've viewed from the warzone that is Cambridgeshire ?

[TiG]

Agressive Foriegn policies are not what the world needs right now, but dealing with just your own internal problems and being isolationist won't help you much either.

Its clear there are huge splits inside iran on what they want to do, but then most of this is probably ignored by most of the western media.

TiG

[Brucelles]

The amount of 'armchair politicians' around that profess to know exactly all the rights and wrongs in the world but have absolutely zero first hand knowledge of any of it is still astonishing. Maybe, just maybe, if some of you have seen these things up really close around the world then you views would probably be alot different.

This is something I can't disagree with. I have lived in so many countries I can't count them easily, but they include most the Middle East, much of Europe and some of the far east. I used to support the same merchant banking system in Tel Aviv, Jerusalem and Ramallah, and I have been to both Israel and the Occupied West Bank on business.

The appalling treatment I have seen handed out to people just trying to get to work, or school or hospital disgusts me.

I don't believe that I would have half as realistic a view of this stuff if all I learned about it was from the 9 o'clock news. I think everyone should try to get at least one job in a foreign country during their lives. The eye-opening possibilities are endless.

[redlight]

@Moby
How many Dutch starved during the winter of 1944/45 when all their rail workers refused to work.
They stopped the Germans from using their rail system and the Germans cut off all fuel and food supplies
to the whole nation.
When the Germans knew they woukd loose Holland they rounded up every able man they could find(50,000) and shipped them off to Germany as forced labour.
Now thats a bit of European History.

[excalibur2]

hmmm the Dutch - did you know that Dutch colonies were so bad , they willingly invited the Japanese in during the 2nd world war ? Its hardly ancient history - you only seem to think in very short time scales.

Well why we are posting suprises!.........Did you know just after the war the UK adminstered Nam, and a rebelling started and we used the Japanese army to help supress it...IIRC over a 1000 Japanese died and we were so happy to give the place back to the French as it was their colony, and even though many ex WW2 German ss soldiers joined the foreign legion they (the French) were eventually defeated, and then came the Americans.......................................................

[Moby-Dick]

It certainly is and shows 2 sides of the war There was an incredible ammount of bravery from people of all european countries.

Take for example the Czech Resistance who organised and carried out the assasination of Reinhard Heidrich. They were eventually cornered by the SS , and after fighting them off for 6 hours in a small crypt in Prague and chose Suicide rather than capture.

Its one of the most moving sites in Prague and I recommend anyone visiting there to drop by.

Assassination of Heidrich

[UltraMagnus]

personally, i don't blame iran for wanting nukes, they are right next door to Israel a country with what? a third of its population in the military, that has nukes and has far too much of a liking for sending in mossad hit squads in countries where it has no jurisdiction without permission.

[Moby-Dick]

I like Borris Johnsons view on it....

Boris Johnson MP: Iran

[Brucelles]

You have to love Boris. I'm not sure if he's serious, and I'm certainly not sure I want to see an Iran with nukes, however, if they get some and it causes the Americans to think twice before starting the next gorefest, that would be a good thing.

Of course, if they got some and nuked Israel, that would be a bad thing.

[nichomach]

I like Borris Johnsons view on it....

Boris Johnson MP: Iran

That's an excellent read, and as suggestions go, you don't have to squint too much before it starts looking fairly reasonable.

[UltraMagnus]

You have to love Boris. I'm not sure if he's serious, and I'm certainly not sure I want to see an Iran with nukes, however, if they get some and it causes the Americans to think twice before starting the next gorefest, that would be a good thing.

Of course, if they got some and nuked Israel, that would be a bad thing.

yeah, Israel would nuke iran, nobody would be left in either country, and we would have nothing to arg... debate about

[Blitzen]

hmmm the Dutch - did you know that Dutch colonies were so bad , they willingly invited the Japanese in during the 2nd world war ? Its hardly ancient history - you only seem to think in very short time scales.

Is it possible that other countries are busy dealing with their own internal problems rather than attempting to police the world ?

Would you care to enlighten us which of these things that you've viewed from the warzone that is Cambridgeshire ?

Admin or not, sarcasm isn't your strong point.
1. Recent conflicts (last 10-15 years) - The dutch and polish have been fighting along woth the British on almost every occassion.
2. Cambridgeshire is my home now. I left the Royal Marines in 1999 after almost 10 years service. I think this qualifies me to at least have an informed opinion on what i saw for myself rather than an opinion which is made from sat behind a keyboard or reading a newspaper such as yours is. Thats not an insulting comment, its a fact (unless you have served, which from your previous comments i seriously doubt). To assume that becasue of where i live is a pointer to my past career isn't a very informed opinion is it?

Sorry Moby. Even though your forum admin skills are never in doubt, your first hand knowledge of matters such as these definitely are.