Fuddam, A Few Moments Of Your Time Please.

[schmunk]

New Orleans, pretty Christian city (like most of America), still got blown to bits, God didn't really step in and make a miracle there did he?

It's the Blacks. Too many of them there, apparently. God told me so, in a vision. He said that he doesn't like it in the dark when you can just see their eyes and teeth, it freaks him out. So he sent the hurricane, 'a great flood of biblical proportions', to cleanse the world of their menace. I pointed out to God that there are far more Blacks in Africa. He said 'whoops' and that he'd try harder next time. *


I challenge anyone to prove to me that I did not have this vision and that God did not say these things to me. Also please prove that he didn't, at my unspoken request, add an inch to the length of my penis during the course of the same incident.

God did these miraculous things and I am truly faith-struck, but I will not sully the word of the Lord by speaking to the world's press. Instead I will eulogise about it to the already-faithful and then make ridiculous-sounding statements to small numbers of people on internet discussion forums. Yes, that is the best way to spread the news of God's love.



*p.s. I am not really suggesting that God is racist. I am merely using an apagogical argument to make a point about some of the things posted previously in this thread.

[schmunk]

Well, I don't think god has to act like we think he should act. Why should he? I don't think god is there to stop all evil etc.

Yes, why should he stop it, after all it was God who started all evil, according to the Christian faith.

The church may have lots of sick, twisted pervs serving the congregations but that, in my view, has nothing to do with god.

God created these 'sick, twisted pervs', so it has everything to do with him. Or are you saying that God didn't create such people? If not, who? I was led to believe that Christians believed that God, and only God, was the creator of the universe and all its contents. Are you saying that he's subcontracted to B. & L. Zebub Ltd. for some of the humans?

[iranu]

The biggest problem that I have with these so called medical miracles is that they are never performed in controlled conditions. It's always a friend, or a story or a church or this and that happened. These stories are really for the gullible and the non-rational, all they do is confirm that persons own view, it's a confirmation bias. People are very easily fooled too, ask any magician. You have to detach yourself from the event to make sense of it and this is almost impossible for someone to do if they have a vested interest. You'll see that religious people tend to be emotional rather than rational people, they certainly aren't skeptics when it comes to miracles or things they cannot rationally explain. The person wants to believe the event as a miracle and and therefore does, it is as simple as that. Human beings have a huge desire to confirm their own beliefs to the point where they'll swear black is white and vice a versa. It is one of the many reasons why science asks for repeatable testable evidence when someone makes any claim.

If there are thousands of these miracles happening every day then they must be repeatable and therefore we can test the claims. However, this never happens. It's like Uri Gellar and his spoon bending - doesn't happen in the presence of skeptics. If people could be healed this way then we'd have hundreds if not thousands of these healers working in hospitals. You'd go to the doctor with your club foot and he'd get you a slot at the local hospital and the healer would do his thing and you'd go home cured and happy. We don't see this. These sorts of "miracles" aren't exactly lying for Jesus, but they are telling mistruths for Jesus.

The burden of proof is on the positive claimant. Unless you can show proof of these instances happening then it is perfectly acceptable to dismiss all of them.

As far as the "supernatural" is concerned it's an incoherent term. From it's very definition it cannot exist. I'd love to know how a supernatural being interacts with the natural to perform these miracles. If there is any interaction or part of the natural that is also part of god then we can test it or find proof. No such proof exists.

[Stewart]

Unless you can show proof of these instances happening then it is perfectly acceptable to dismiss all of them.

Dude...

Thing is, Miracles do happen.

What more proof do you need?

[Brucelles]

I did actually watch a demonstration of miracle-curing in Egypt once. It was pretty impressive, the 'surgeon' laid his hands on the patient's belly and did lot's of shouting and massaging and after a while the patient's belly started to bleed and then a lump of meat, surprisingly like a chicken gizzard, popped out and the man was cured of the cancer that, sadly struck him down two days later so that he needed it removed again. I think the show was mainly for people passing through Suez who weren't expected to be there for more than one showing. Either that or the patient was really, really unlucky.

I did have an aunt who died of breast cancer because she was too embarrassed to see a doctor, so she went to her local faith-healer instead. He cured her about a month before she died in great pain.

Fuddam, you didn't answer me about Adam and Eve. Were they real or not? I simply want to get a hold on where you stand on the continuum of literalism so that I can make substantive comment. I am not in the business of knocking people unless they act like arseholes.

[Koolpc]

Yes mate, brilliant. Now I say again - examples please. And of course, the proof that they happened.

You are the one who is searching for 'Proof' i am not. Put your specs back on, take your finger out of your rear passage, put that spliff down and get looking (No offence) lol (A bit of 'Stewart' Humour there).

[Zak33]

You are the one who is searching for 'Proof' i am not. Put your specs back on, take your finger out of your rear passage, put that spliff down and get looking (No offence) lol (A bit of 'Stewart' Humour there).

/ducks RIGHT down and goes all invisible

[fuddam]

I did actually watch a demonstration of miracle-curing in Egypt once. It was pretty impressive, the 'surgeon' laid his hands on the patient's belly and did lot's of shouting and massaging and after a while the patient's belly started to bleed and then a lump of meat, surprisingly like a chicken gizzard, popped out and the man was cured of the cancer that, sadly struck him down two days later so that he needed it removed again. I think the show was mainly for people passing through Suez who weren't expected to be there for more than one showing. Either that or the patient was really, really unlucky.

I did have an aunt who died of breast cancer because she was too embarrassed to see a doctor, so she went to her local faith-healer instead. He cured her about a month before she died in great pain.

was this a Christian healing? sadly, no.

Fuddam, you didn't answer me about Adam and Eve. Were they real or not?

maybe they were. maybe they weren't.

[fuddam]

this thread is deteriorating, sadly. was kinda relaxed to begin with, but now descending into sarcasm.

am prepared to post, of course, but don't have the time or energy right now for some peeps who's cup is already overflowing - there is no point. Got too much other stuff on the go. I think most would agree it's kinda a waste of time to get into the "prove God's existence" issue, since it's futile.

you want miracles? they be there.
and they don't have to involve physical healing at all. Biggest miracle of all, for me, is the healing of one's soul, that person who one day is a hate-filled, substance-abusing malcontented leech, and the next day (i.e. 24hrs) is a humble, loving, giving, brother or sister. Seen it so many times. And they never take any of the credit for the turn-around.

You ever seen a psychotherapist/psychologist/counsellor pull that off? And nope, don't quote GOOD WILL HUNTING

[Zak33]

I think Fuddam has tried his damndest here, but the thread is going down the loo now.

Shall I close it Stewart? It was, after all, your most excellent creation (done in under 7 days too )

[Clunk]

Before you close it, I would like to add this please.

[Monkeyboy71]

I once got the consultant psychiatrist I work with to buy me a drink, does that count?

[Stewart]

You are the one who is searching for 'Proof' i am not. Put your specs back on, take your finger out of your rear passage, put that spliff down and get looking (No offence) lol (A bit of 'Stewart' Humour there).

I can't react badly to that because I don't understand where you are coming from.

I don't believe in these miracles... you do... you want me to provide proof?

I'm not the only one who has been smoking a funny fag it seems...

Zak - your call sunny jim. Seems to have run its course. So unless someone has something they REALLY need to say...

[TeePee]

I like turtles.

[schmunk]

I love horses, best of all the animals.

[schmunk]

I note, Fuddam, that you haven't answered any of my questions. KoolPC neither.