LinkBack URL
About LinkBacksWell, i may be a 'Christian' but i do have a wide range of beliefs!!
Well, i may be a 'Christian' but i do have a wide range of beliefs!!
That video does make a few interesting points about God.
As an atheist, i agree with a lot of what the bloke said. What's wrong with not believing until you have evidence? Surely once you actually see God in the afterlife you could worship him for eternity - which is infinitely longer than 100 years. It does also seem a bit odd that people who don't believe in God are treated, this will sound very whiny, so unfairly. Surely if you live a good happy life, you don't do anything against the laws of any religion, you're generous, etc but if you were born into a situation where there was no compelling evidence for an outside God, and you were never told about religion, why should you not get into Heaven?
Oh, and don't you think you'd get bored in Heaven?
Hate to get back to this eternity thing, but in the words of Mr Rowan Atkinson "You're here for.. Eternity.. which i hardly need to remind you is a HECK of a long time".
what's the point of this life? To choose God or reject Him.Originally Posted by Whiternoise
Does one need more than 100 years to make that choice? I hope not. After all, many people on this thread have made up their minds that they don't want to be with Him, and I assume none are over 50 (right?).
so, you know God's purpose for their lives? Kinda presumptious, I'd say.
why is this world in such a state? Because of human sin. NOT because God wanted anyone to suffer. Simple. You don't recognise sin, since you don't recognise God, so you have a problem. Kinda strange to get all angry about a deity, blaming Him for all the injustices, yet you don't believe in Him.So why if this is god given are these children going to be denied the chance to show and develop their qualities? These children may have gone on to do great things much later in life; kind Christian things, but nope they're going to suffer great indignity with no chance of survival. Medicine will look for a cure for this genetic, god given condition, perhaps if they went to a Christian faith healer he could cure them just like the beggars club foot.
If god does predefine people and produces people with such terrible diseases then what are their specific purposes and how do they fulfil them? How can these poor people exersize their god given free will when they have such severe dementia? Can they ignore or choose to fulfil this purpose when they are in such a state of dementia?
That is actually one of the greatest problems of the age we live in - the lack of conviction of sin. People used to believe they were sinners, and therefore had a solution to their sin; nowadays, the average person is more than likely to believe they are 'good people', who do nothing wrong, and do not need to take responsibility for any sin of previous generations. The irony is that these same people chant for the Pope (eg) to apologise for paedophilia that has gone on beforehand. Sounds like double standards to me.
Do you consider feelings like envy/jealousy/lust/greed/pride to be wrong? If not, then you're in a bind, since pretty much all communities around the world (I'd venture) consider them negative, and discourage such feelings in their children.
If you DO consider them negative, how can you consider yourself a 'good person' (assuming you do, which is natural since you consider people unjustly placed in this world of suffering.)
Answered yet you don't like or accept my answer.I'm sorry but I do get a little hett-up when people espouse the greatness of god, say how great things are for them and admit they do not know god's motives and yet ignore all the sh*tty things that happen to people through absolutely no fault of their own.
answered before, too. What I recognise as evidence, you reject (my personal relationship to Him being foremost) so no further discussion on that topic possible.If we did put a big brother camera on you and found that god was influencing events or whatever then how can you claim free will? If you are just feeling great and you subscribe that to god without evidence then you are exhibiting nothing more than the well established scientifically proven Placebo effect.
really? prove it.
define your use of 'good'Again, it must be so depressing for christians treating life as just a test for an 'afterlife' and 'none of us deserve anything good'. Far better to live a good life and enjoy it!
I agree totally. I would reject an adult's claim to be a Christian simply because someone told them to believe. It's based on the relationship with Christ, nothing less.
see earlier posts in this thread which answer exactly that question.Surely once you actually see God in the afterlife you could worship him for eternity - which is infinitely longer than 100 years. It does also seem a bit odd that people who don't believe in God are treated, this will sound very whiny, so unfairly. Surely if you live a good happy life, you don't do anything against the laws of any religion, you're generous, etc but if you were born into a situation where there was no compelling evidence for an outside God, and you were never told about religion, why should you not get into Heaven?
imagine the perfect summer morning (or autumn/winter/spring if you want to be difficult). You awaken. No pain, no discomfort, no stress, no anxiety, no depression, no hunger, no illness, no pressures. You are free to enjoy the fantastic body you possess, to climb/run/surf/hike/fly/swim etc with your best friends and family. The best food to hand, the best house you could ever imagine.Oh, and don't you think you'd get bored in Heaven?
sound crappy? I think not.
Heaven is far better than that (scripture says we cannot fathom the true fantasticness of what God has in store for us)
Boring? I think not. You wish you had that experience NOW, I'd venture.
indeedy. So you'd better make hay while the sun shines. If you stood before Christ right now, you could hardly complain that He hadn't tried to communicate to you, through the words on this forum.Hate to get back to this eternity thing, but in the words of Mr Rowan Atkinson "You're here for.. Eternity.. which i hardly need to remind you is a HECK of a long time".
It's also quite logical to assume that not all hexus forum readers will be alive by the end of the year. The time to think on these things is now, not when you're older/greyer/wiser. Sorry, but tis true.
lookee here: http://www.godandscience.org/apologe..._amputees.html
from which I extract:
Nobody is going to avoid all the discomforts or escape life intact. In fact, your destiny is death. If God healed everyone's illnesses, there would be no death. God wants to do more than just heal your physical bodies, which are temporary. God wants to heal your soul, which is eternal. God wants to make you perfect! However, God does not want to force anyone to act against his own will, so He give us choices. Agree to give up your "right" to sin and go along with God's plan, and He will reward you with a perfect soul in heaven.
I have heard of amputees getting new limbs, but unless I show it to you, in front of your own eyes, you could just claim hoax / lies / no scientific verification / flawed scientific verification / fake video / CGI etc
the thing is, really, no proof would be good enough. After all, our own eyes aren't trustworthy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychology
Positive.
It's not that no proof is good enough at all. Firstly the videos, etc, are evidence, not proof. A single proof would be good enough, but as with a lot of things, all there is is evidence.
Evidence has to be viewed objectivly, something christians simply don't do. If the evidence is ambiguous (like a video of shoes moving together) then every posible explanation has to be considered, and as I explained earlier, there are many very plausible explanations for the observed phenomena which aren't supernatural. Therefore there's no reason to believe it's anything but a natural occurance, be it the product of trickery or simply good fortune.
The result is the 'evidence' isn't really evidence of very much.
Firstly you didn't answer ANY of my questions with regard to the two children who are going to suffer dementia.
Secondly if god is using these children as part of his grand plan then he is the most sadistic, sickest f*ck I could imagine and I would want no dealings with him even if it were proven that he existed. We had a thread a few weeks back about someone that tortured dogs, I see no difference in god's actions and they should be condemned as such.
Thirdly there is no such thing as a soul. It's complete and utter nonsense. Again, show me evidence of this soul. Is it material, immaterial, is it part of personality? I'm in absolute hysterics looking at the site you have linked to. Science and souls! The authors of such a site wouldn't know science or the scientific method if it bit them on the behind.
Fourthly, your knowledge of psychology and neurology is non-existent. Of course peoples personalities are dependent upon environment and genes, their skills are learnt or I suppose you jumped onto a two wheeled bike first time and never fell off eh?
You see it's this basic denial of evidence that I find so frustrating and at times laughable when it comes to religion. If the evidence does not support the delusion then it's automatically cast aside. Similarly unreliable evidence is taken as proof, there is zero objectivity. I could show you proof of a lady being sawn in half and then miraculously being joined up again with no harm done. We all know this is a magictrick because we can test it. After all people who have been cut in half do not fair too well. The same could be done to prove that god heals amputees. In fact it would be in Christians' interests to do the experiment(s) because it would give proof. They don't and jump through hoops and perform mental masturbation to get around the issue. It's basically dishonest.
"Reality is what it is, not what you want it to be." Frank Zappa. ----------- "The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike." Huang Po.----------- "A drowsy line of wasted time bathes my open mind", - Ride.
schmunk (28-07-2008)
Equally as presumptious as your statements on the subject.
No, your wrong, there are plenty of fantastic ideas and crazy theories that I believe because they are supported by evidence. The very idea that time and space are the same thing and that the closer you get to the speed of light the slower time goes relative to an observer is a crazy wacky idea that can be difficult to conceptualise but it is verifiably true and scientifically proven. There is a load of evidence to support that theory therefore I accept it. Show me some real evidence of these apparently human amphibian hybrids growing limbs back and I will take it seriously. As I am not aware any cases like this standing up to the slightest scrutiny I have to assume they do not exist and that in fact God does not heal amputees, if you can give me some actual evidence for it I will take it seriously, and by evidence what I mean is some sort of article in a peer reviewed journal, not a happy clappy website. I am sure you won't be able top provide this evidence, not because there isn't a standard that would satisfy me, but because such evidence does not exist, not for amputees, not for anybody (at least nothing which could not be explained by the placebo effect).
HEXUS FOLDING TEAM It's EASY
hmmm. that link is kinda strange.
I asked the question since you work within a relative notion of good, whereas I work within an absolute - I need to know what you consider good. After all, you (apparently) consider yourself a good person, and I'd like to know how far that extends. Purely actions, or thoughts included etc.
so, if someone (eg) prayed for their leg to grow longer, and it grew longer, what would you conclude? That the power of the person's mind suddenly made a huge difference to their height? If so, you're certainly on to something that could make you millions, since the spam I receive daily would like me to buy medical supplements instead, and they're starting to cost me a fortune.
So, you have an objective viewpoint, do you? What makes you so objective? Somehow you're able to stand outside your language, your culture, your biases, but Christians can't. Wow.......Evidence has to be viewed objectivly, something christians simply don't do.
"good fortune" - there is soooooo much info loaded into that statement of yours. The person's leg suddenly grew 'from good fortune".....If the evidence is ambiguous (like a video of shoes moving together) then every posible explanation has to be considered, and as I explained earlier, there are many very plausible explanations for the observed phenomena which aren't supernatural. Therefore there's no reason to believe it's anything but a natural occurance, be it the product of trickery or simply good fortune.
the reason I posted that link was that it was in reply to a request for any reference in the mainstream media about such healings. It wasn't proof. Of course one should be skeptical about miracles in the media, but if I was unconvinced as you are, I'd investigate it for myself. Find the person, interview them, seek medical opinion from her doctors etc.The result is the 'evidence' isn't really evidence of very much.
It would certainly back your claim to objectivity.
because you ignored my previous posts on the very subject earlier in the thread which answered it. Sigh. "Suffering" ring a bell?
Sigh again. why are those children in a mess? Because of human choice. Not their choice, of course, but our collective responsibility. You refuse to accept it, that's your business.secondly if god is using these children as part of his grand plan then he is the most sadistic, sickest f*ck I could imagine and I would want no dealings with him even if it were proven that he existed. We had a thread a few weeks back about someone that tortured dogs, I see no difference in god's actions and they should be condemned as such.
really? prove it. you're very certain of your knowledge. You sound, in fact, exactly like the inquisition demanding proof of the roundness of the earth. Until it was shown to them, they were just as dismissive as you are now, I'd venture. The OBJECTIVE response would be along the lines of "there may be a soul, but we have no scientific proof of it". But you KNOW better, it seems.............Thirdly there is no such thing as a soul. It's complete and utter nonsense. Again, show me evidence of this soul. Is it material, immaterial, is it part of personality? I'm in absolute hysterics looking at the site you have linked to. Science and souls! The authors of such a site wouldn't know science or the scientific method if it bit them on the behind.
did i say skill or talent? lol. You need to read more closely before you jump on your horse. Oh, and for the psychology, I have a degree in it, if that makes any difference.Fourthly, your knowledge of psychology and neurology is non-existent. Of course peoples personalities are dependent upon environment and genes, their skills are learnt or I suppose you jumped onto a two wheeled bike first time and never fell off eh?
the problem with your assumption is that you assume we can ORDER God to heal people, on cue, repeatedly, for your assurance. Well, sadly for you, He doesn't work that way. He doesn't need to prove anything to you. He might well do so, but for His own reasons, not yours.After all people who have been cut in half do not fair too well. The same could be done to prove that god heals amputees. In fact it would be in Christians' interests to do the experiment(s) because it would give proof. They don't and jump through hoops and perform mental masturbation to get around the issue. It's basically dishonest.
See, just because He doesn't play by your rules doesn't mean He hasn't healed people around the globe. There are millions of people who will claim He has healed them divinely, whether it be someone as innocuous as a headache, or growing limbs back in front of many witnesses. You *assume* they're either deluded or lying. That says more about you than it does about them.
There's my challenge again: go look for yourself. Go to churches that are claiming healing, to healing services, and attempt to video these healings, speak to the recipients of healing, try to uncover the truth, instead of getting livid over God's 'injustice' in the world.
I dare you.
I watched that Johnny Vegas docu a while back, where he went to various churches in the US, to see the truth for himself. Was awesome to see his humility. He didn't get all high and mighty. Surely, with your claims to scientific method, your first port of call should be investigation, not conjecture?
Not at all. He states His general purpose in black and white, in a book you reject. That's your business.Equally as presumptious as your statements on the subject.
Their specific purpose? I wasn't conjecturing about that at all.
There are currently 2 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 2 guests)
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
