Lockpicking

Well, this could well be a new hobby of mine :)

Not sure what sparked off my interest, but earlier this week I ordered a 9pc set of Southord slimline lockpicks, and picked up a cheap ERA 5 pin lock and a cheap 5 pin padlock. Everything arrived yesterday and i've spent every spare minute playing with them. I did a fair bit of reading around about the theory of how locks work..and its a very interesting subject - I had no idea that locks were so simple in their operation, and how easy it is (in theory) to open one without a key. After a couple of days I am now able to open the padlock with about an hours work, and the ERA lock in about 10 seconds.

I started by taking apart the ERA lock and repinning it down to just 1 pin - this makes it easy to get a feel for the concepts of picking, and to understand some of the basic principles (such as when a pin is binding/set etc)..and then I slowly built it up by repinning again until I could open it with 5 pins in place. The padlock is more difficult (still takes me an hour) for some reason, possibly as its a smaller lock so more difficult to manipulate..don't think it has security pins as I can't make it false set. Still, gives me a challenge before moving on to another lock (euro-style next I think!)

Are there any lockies (or picking hobbyists) on hexus? It's a cheap hobby to pick up - cost me £30 for the 9 pick set (well, 7 picks and 2 tension wrenches) and a lock - and could well be useful if you/a friend gets locked out of their house hehe. It's like doing a puzzle really..each lock is very different to pick and you have to overcome various challenges along the road to actually opening it.

Well worth a go if you have never tried, top fun :)

PS if anyone is worried about the legality - it's 100% legal in the UK to buy and own lockpicks even without being a licenced locksmith. Technically you are not supposed to carry them on your person if you leave your house (legally that is called "going equipped"), however you would only have a problem if you looked like you were going to break into someones house..moral is that it's fine to own them, just don't carry them with you on a night out :) Oh and the actual picking - thats also perfectly legal if you are using your own locks. It's recommended to buy a lock just for your picking pleasure, rather than using your front door (incase you break it!). That also lets you re-pin your practice lock in all sorts of different configurations for more of a challenge.

bumping locks seems to be the fastest method, i dunno if this thread will stay open, better not post any real details about the how to do it..

The most i can do is pick suitcase padlocks - comes in damn handy when you forget your keys :)

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Originally Posted by GoNz0

bumping locks seems to be the fastest method, i dunno if this thread will stay open, better not post any real details about the how to do it..

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Well i've not posted any details on how to do it :) As I said in my first post, lock picking is not even slightly illegal to practice with your own locks, so I would hope theres no problem with general discussion (avoiding specific details maybe)..but if so then I apologise to the mod team. Have expanded my legality bit on that post anyway to clarify.

Bumping locks requires almost no skill and doesn't count..far too easy to do with the right bump key for a lock and not at all fun ;/ Raking is almost as bad, as that too requires more luck than anything else (when dealing with standard, simple locks). Both those methods are often the fastest way of opening a lock, but from the hobbyist point of view they don't offer a challenge and therefore no fun. I say that as if i've been doing this years hah, but I obviously havn't so thats just my point of view ofc :)

I need to get into my Father-In-Laws safe!!! lol

Play Oblivion, :D

Whilst playing Oblivion and Thief, I have often wondered how difficult it would be to actually do it. Might look into it seeing as it's quite cheap and legal.

Do it with paperclips and learn on the padlocks you get in crackers :P (i'm serious btw)

Even though they're not proper locks..

Suitcases are good for practice on.

- Some people like puzzles from books but i prefer to pick locks with my "Slim Line Euro" Lock Pick Set.
- In Oblivion and Splinter Cell you can pick locked doors, which can be a great tool for beginners who want to practice virtually.

Met a locksmith in Sydney and he taught my friend and I a few of the basics. It's surprising how easy it is to do and how many simple locks can be opened. Like any skill it does require practice. There were a few high rise buildings in the city that were awaiting refurbishment and we used to get into them and have a wander about. Got some great views but it was a bit creepy especially when we thought there was either another group of people in the building or a tramp.

I use one of these

http://www.the-toolbox.net/images/BS-26429.jpg

I did get into a key box with only a paper clip and a letter opener, think that just goes to show how poor the locks on those little key boxes are. Oh and I wasn't stealing anything, some idiot just didn't give us the right keys to get the things we needed... and it was for charity... and and and

Heard it's a great way to pass the time on train journeys, always good to have a cheap compact hobby.

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Originally Posted by Whiternoise

Do it with paperclips and learn on the padlocks you get in crackers :P (i'm serious btw)

Even though they're not proper locks..

Suitcases are good for practice on.

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I used to do that as a kid a few years ago. Dead simple to do.

I've had to break into a little red cashbox thingy before.

It was owned by someone I ran a tuck shop for.. and they managed to lose the key.

Cashbox+Paperclip+Hairclip+ten minutes of stress and we were sorted! We did manage to break the lock though.

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Originally Posted by Jay

I use one of these

http://www.the-toolbox.net/images/BS-26429.jpg

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http://www.militaryfactory.com/smallarms/imgs/rpg7.jpg

Hehe, I'm not going to lock the thread or delete it as long as the conversation stays sensible.

As to 'going equipped' you can be arrested for carrying a newspaper, marmite (or golden syrup) and screwdriver... all you need to break a double glazed window with little noise and no mess. True dat! :)

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Originally Posted by Nick

As to 'going equipped' you can be arrested for carrying a newspaper, marmite (or golden syrup) and screwdriver... all you need to break a double glazed window with little noise and no mess. True dat! :)

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the marmite/syrup+newspaper is genius tbh

could you substitute the newspaper for one of those tiny kleenex tissue packs, the marmite for half chewed sweets and the screwdriver for a particularly hefty bunch of keys?

I once saw a video of some guy from toool.nl giving a talk on lock picking and he used a shim to open a padlock. It looked so easy in the video, but i couldn't get it to work on any of my padlocks..

has anyone tried using proper lockpicking tools? as in weird pieces of bent metal..
just wondering if it makes things easier than bent paper clips..

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Originally Posted by a1210

has anyone tried using proper lockpicking tools? as in weird pieces of bent metal..
just wondering if it makes things easier than bent paper clips..

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Yup..makes things much easier, as you can feel around inside the lock to work out whats going on and what you need to do in order to open it :) Paperclips are a free and fun way to start though, and you can even bend them into similar shapes to make your own macgyver picks =)

This is the set I have (just an image here, not a link to buy)

http://www.southord.com/images/fullsize/C-801.jpg

I've often thought about this, seems like a great pass vtime that could actually come in useful!

Lowe is secretly planning to rob their neighbour and steal the neighbours superior computer.


Joking aside.. that last post could be taken in sooo the wrong way..

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Originally Posted by MadduckUK

the marmite/syrup+newspaper is genius tbh

could you substitute the newspaper for one of those tiny kleenex tissue packs, the marmite for half chewed sweets and the screwdriver for a particularly hefty bunch of keys?

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afaik, it's only used with people who have a history of burglary or are suspected of it... otherwise we'd all be rounded up when we left Tesco's after the weekly shop. (not that I buy screwdrivers on a weekly basis but...)

And I can grab a book on this at local Bookstores?

Whey, and the woman who lived of £1 day for a year, I'll live for £0 a day for as long as possible :)
(That's not serious just in case)

Nick - you mean to say you don't manage to lose at least one a week? I'm amazed! I have this tendency to lose them, find replacements and then the old ones turn up leaving me with enough duplicates to start my own tool shop.

In NY I got locked out of the apartment I was staying in, took 20 minutes of have the idea of using a credit card to force the lock - and 4 seconds to open the door with the credit card (actually it was my cash card). Lesson: Yale locks can be a bad idea, in fact if you have home contents insurance and a just a Yale lock on any entrance to the property than your insurance is probably void check the small print.

I actually work in the industry, and personally, I dispise hobbyists for making our job more difficult. Yes, it's interesting to find out how things work, but really, how are suppliers supposed to tell the difference between a genuine hobbyist and a criminal wanting a quick way into a building??

The company I work for goes for the simple route, if you aren't a trained and certified locksmith (from a course that does a CRB check), you don't get tools. Unfortuantely get rich quick idiots don't share that view, and people like Spud1 get tools along with criminals.

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Originally Posted by Lucio

I actually work in the industry, and personally, I dispise hobbyists for making our job more difficult. Yes, it's interesting to find out how things work, but really, how are suppliers supposed to tell the difference between a genuine hobbyist and a criminal wanting a quick way into a building??

The company I work for goes for the simple route, if you aren't a trained and certified locksmith (from a course that does a CRB check), you don't get tools. Unfortuantely get rich quick idiots don't share that view, and people like Spud1 get tools along with criminals.

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I'm a fairly paranoid bloke. I have my PC padlocked up on the case. 2 padlocks on that and it's chained to the radiator.
As someone who works in this industry, how easy would it be for someone to open the padlocks and lock em up without me knowing?

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Originally Posted by CaseyV9

As someone who works in this industry, how easy would it be for someone to open the padlocks and lock em up without me knowing?

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i guess that comes down to how long you could use the comp for before you realise its not there anymore

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Originally Posted by CaseyV9

I'm a fairly paranoid bloke. I have my PC padlocked up on the case. 2 padlocks on that and it's chained to the radiator.
As someone who works in this industry, how easy would it be for someone to open the padlocks and lock em up without me knowing?

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Depends entirely on the padlocks, however most criminals would simply cut or smash the raidiator pipe and take the PC that way.

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Originally Posted by Lucio

I actually work in the industry, and personally, I dispise hobbyists for making our job more difficult. Yes, it's interesting to find out how things work, but really, how are suppliers supposed to tell the difference between a genuine hobbyist and a criminal wanting a quick way into a building??

The company I work for goes for the simple route, if you aren't a trained and certified locksmith (from a course that does a CRB check), you don't get tools. Unfortuantely get rich quick idiots don't share that view, and people like Spud1 get tools along with criminals.

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Thats a valid point, and to a degree I agree with you there...BUT

9/10 times its much much easier to force a lock or to simply bypass it than to pick it. It's often much quicker and simpler, and your average criminal doesn't care about leaving a trace behind them. Those that are very careful and don't want to leave any evidence are smart enough to get hold of the equipment regardless of any restrictions on how they are sold, so stopping shops selling them to unlicenced people wouldn't really help.

So really, it wouldn't make that much of a difference by restricting sale to only licenced lockies, other than frustrating people who genuinely want to get into picking from the hobby point of view, and possibly reducing the number of people who train up, qualify and become a licenced locksmith.

edit - as an aside, do you know of anywhere that sells just the springs to fit inside standard pin tumber locks? In the process of repinning one of my practice locks I've broken one of the springs (my fault for not putting one of the pings back in :() and I can't find them anywhere in the UK ;/ Admittedly there are other places to look yet but if you know of a store that would be very useful :)

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Originally Posted by Lucio

Depends entirely on the padlocks, however most criminals would simply cut or smash the raidiator pipe and take the PC that way.

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I just mean if someone wanted to be be sly and tamper with it in the aim of the owner not knowing. This talk of lock picking makes me wonder.

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Originally Posted by CaseyV9

And I can grab a book on this at local Bookstores?

Whey, and the woman who lived of £1 day for a year, I'll live for £0 a day for as long as possible :)
(That's not serious just in case)

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Please delete if this is innapropriate, but there's a very popular guide on the internet named after a prestigious US university.

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Originally Posted by Spud1

Thats a valid point, and to a degree I agree with you there...BUT

9/10 times its much much easier to force a lock or to simply bypass it than to pick it. It's often much quicker and simpler, and your average criminal doesn't care about leaving a trace behind them. Those that are very careful and don't want to leave any evidence are smart enough to get hold of the equipment regardless of any restrictions on how they are sold, so stopping shops selling them to unlicenced people wouldn't really help.

So really, it wouldn't make that much of a difference by restricting sale to only licenced lockies, other than frustrating people who genuinely want to get into picking from the hobby point of view, and possibly reducing the number of people who train up, qualify and become a licenced locksmith.

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I'd rather frustrate a hundred hobbyists than sell to a single criminal. Not to mention legislation similar to the US's licensing structure would also clean up the industry of the cowboys. Right now, I wouldn't call a locksmith out to get into my home unless I personally knew him, too many people out there go on a 2 or 5 day course and start their business imediately and most of them don't have the first clue as to how the job works.

The governement needs to bring in proper licensing and regular skills checks, along with restricing the supply of entry items because whilst *some* criminals use quick and dirty entry methods an increasing number are turning to locksmithing techniques to get in quietly and leave people without insurance cover because they're blamed for leaving the house unlocked...

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Originally Posted by CaseyV9

I just mean if someone wanted to be be sly and tamper with it in the aim of the owner not knowing. This talk of lock picking makes me wonder.

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Depends entirely on the padlocks. I'm not gonna list techniques here though, simple fact is if you aren't paying £20+ for a padlock, it's not worth anything other than a deteraint.

Or something to cover you insurance wise...

Are any of you guys available for operational assignments?

Dont worry about the pay, that wont be a problem, My greatgrandad always said if you have a talent use it!

I am totally unsure as to how to take that last comment.

Are you suggesitng that we go ahead and break some laws? Isn't that against forum rules?

I've always fancied this. I don't really have the time to go bin raiding any more but when I did it was an exciting and rewarding hobby. In my experience bins were always locked to stop fly-tippers dumping their rubbish into the bins- so I think I'd have got away with breaking in to take the treasure that was already within.

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Originally Posted by mediaboy

I am totally unsure as to how to take that last comment.

Are you suggesitng that we go ahead and break some laws? Isn't that against forum rules?

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Thought (or sarcasm) /= Crime

I could tell people to go out and shag the cats of unsuspecting pensioners, doesn't mean were going to have an epidemic of cat shaggers.

NB. I take no responsibility for subsequent feline rapes.

^ lol That is quality - I think I would be more persuaded to offend if the pensioners were unsuspecting but witnessed the shagging, then again I'm a deviant. :devilish:

All of the places I've worked in have used liquid nitrogen (LN2) and therefore I've had access to it. A few times I've seen co-workers ask if we could break something open when they haven't had access to hydraulic cutters etc. 5 mins in LN2 and "hammer time" (you can't stop it) and it's game over. If you have enough brute force and ignorance then the majority of locks are breakable, however, that technique attracts orcs and dragons, and doesn't incease your skill level. Finesse is far classier.

Edit: nan-a nan-a nan-a nan-a, cat shaggers!

c'mon guys this is supposed to be a clean well moderated forum. This was one of the things that drew me to this forum. How did we get from lockpicking to cat....?

An opportunity arises!
http://durham21.co.uk/userfiles/whyso.jpg

Padlocks are notoriously easy to break into as far as i'm aware.

There was a thread on Macrumors a while ago demonstrating that you should never buy Kensington locks because you can open them with a toilet roll. Some padlocks even have little holes that as far as i remember are used to opening them if you've lost the keys. Others are designed to be opened by people like the TSA in the States so they don't use wire cutters to open your case.

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Originally Posted by Lucio

I'd rather frustrate a hundred hobbyists than sell to a single criminal.

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Are you a Euro-MP?

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Originally Posted by Spud1

Thats a valid point, and to a degree I agree with you there...BUT

9/10 times its much much easier to force a lock or to simply bypass it than to pick it. It's often much quicker and simpler, and your average criminal doesn't care about leaving a trace behind them. Those that are very careful and don't want to leave any evidence are smart enough to get hold of the equipment regardless of any restrictions on how they are sold, so stopping shops selling them to unlicenced people wouldn't really help.

So really, it wouldn't make that much of a difference by restricting sale to only licenced lockies, other than frustrating people who genuinely want to get into picking from the hobby point of view, and possibly reducing the number of people who train up, qualify and become a licenced locksmith.

edit - as an aside, do you know of anywhere that sells just the springs to fit inside standard pin tumber locks? In the process of repinning one of my practice locks I've broken one of the springs (my fault for not putting one of the pings back in :() and I can't find them anywhere in the UK ;/ Admittedly there are other places to look yet but if you know of a store that would be very useful :)

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Also, mind you, anyone with access to or if they make a home brew CNC, it's pretty simple to route the required tool from common metal sheeting etc.

Spud 1 - interesting thread, thanks :)