'Dirty' Words!

[TheAnimus]

Over the past month a couple of words have cropped up in various threads which still have dirty connotations. I'm Talking of course about

Nationalism
Socialism
Eugenics

Whilst we all know NAZI directly referencing the first two, and implementing the 3rd to the extreme, that was some 60 years ago.

Eugenics for instance can be something as simple as suggesting people shouldn't have children they can't afford to fully support. Relying on the state as anything other than a last ditch is morally wrong. All the way up to proposing offering drug adicts/jeremy kyle viewers £100 for sterilisation.

Nationalism has unpleasant connotations, from BNP marches to the welsh, but ultimately its not all bad. Some of the greatest innovations have happened when people have banded themselves together.

Socialism is a very dirty word in the US right now as often its seen as a way of a politician who is corrupt as hell or worse, idealistic, taking money away from what you think is best for your family. How will I pay for my children to have health and education, when i'm stretched as it is, yet i'm above the average income. That is a classic cry of most US types I met last time I was over there.

But has the time come for people to talk about these things as adults, in much the same way as anyone who opposed immigration was a racist.

[[GSV]Trig]

Eugenics for instance can be something as simple as suggesting people shouldn't have children they can't afford to fully support. Relying on the state as anything other than a last ditch is morally wrong. All the way up to proposing offering drug adicts/jeremy kyle viewers £100 for sterilisation.

Sounds like a good idea if you ask me.
I tihnk if you write a cheque that you know you dont have the money to pay is fraud, not sure what they call it when you do the same with a kid

[Terbinator]

Over the past month a couple of words have cropped up in various threads which still have dirty connotations. I'm Talking of course about

Nationalism
Socialism
Eugenics

Whilst we all know NAZI directly referencing the first two, and implementing the 3rd to the extreme, that was some 60 years ago.

Eugenics for instance can be something as simple as suggesting people shouldn't have children they can't afford to fully support. Relying on the state as anything other than a last ditch is morally wrong. All the way up to proposing offering drug adicts/jeremy kyle viewers £100 for sterilisation.

Nationalism has unpleasant connotations, from BNP marches to the welsh, but ultimately its not all bad. Some of the greatest innovations have happened when people have banded themselves together.

Socialism is a very dirty word in the US right now as often its seen as a way of a politician who is corrupt as hell or worse, idealistic, taking money away from what you think is best for your family. How will I pay for my children to have health and education, when i'm stretched as it is, yet i'm above the average income. That is a classic cry of most US types I met last time I was over there.

But has the time come for people to talk about these things as adults, in much the same way as anyone who opposed immigration was a racist.

Can i have the Welsh line as sig material?

While i was over in Florida during the summer i came across this women and her husband by the pool and began conversation, of course it turned to politics and the health care thing majig. It wasn't long before i released she was about 20 years behind the rest of civilisation and she genuinely thought Obama was Muslim - i didn't know where to put my face, mainly because i was dying to laugh from embarrassment.

I'm confused as to what you mean by adults in relation to socialism/nationalism, especially as i had you down as an Ayn Rand-esque objectivist (no offence intended)

On the eugenics front it is about time we had some sort of control over ourselves as a race/populace. I don't think the state should shy away from suggesting maybe its best if you don't have kids, or if you do only have one.

[chuckskull]

We certainly need to take a more mature approach to some of these subjects. The Nazi's were undoubtedly evil, but that doesn't mean every single action they took was evil. Socialised healthcare and good roads being obvious examples. In the same vein the Allies were undoubtedly good, again that does not mean every action they took was good. Strategic bombing and Stalin being the obvious examples there.

People need to look at the actual morality of these subjects individually not just make broad assumptions and assertions based on people who've supported them in the past.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

TAX is a very dirty word!!

[Domestic_Ginger]

I think these words have beco,e dirty much to do with our polical parties policies and having to be 'PC'.

We do not have enough politically radical parties; compared to france who have communists and socialists trying to compete for your vote.

At work I need to use the technical expression rather technical expression 'flange' and keep a straight face. That imo is a very dirty word.

[Lucio]

I think part of the problem is that whilst we, as a society, want to embrace moral relativism, certain concepts are seen as moral absolutes and therefore outside the accepted social structure. If people stopped and really thought about what was being asked by the words, then perhaps you could find situations where it was acceptable.

For example, pride in the English football team during the World Cup is most part of nationalism and to many flying the flag of England completely acceptable. What's wrong is when the cross of St George is then nicked by a bunch of racist idiots like the EDL or BNP to represent their views.

[Macman]

PM a.k.a. Prime Minister a bad word?

[jim]

I don't see how someone can believe in evolution and not believe in the theory behind eugenics.

The Nazi scheme of enforced sterilisation made it into a taboo subject, which is a pity. I don't personally ascribe to the idea of forcing it on people, and I think the vast majority would agree. Nonetheless, the fact that it is almost impossible to discuss is extremely daft.

I would put it in the same box as "it might offend...".

[santa claus]

.....from BNP marches to the welsh.

Nationalism
Socialism
Eugenics
Racism

i'm above the average income.

Nationalism
Socialism
Eugenics
Racism
Salaryism

[Zadock]

...Eugenics for instance can be something as simple as suggesting people shouldn't have children they can't afford to fully support. Relying on the state as anything other than a last ditch is morally wrong. All the way up to proposing offering drug adicts/jeremy kyle viewers £100 for sterilisation

This was me I think

Satirising/Making a mockery of such ideas is positive reinforcement that they are amoral and wrong? Something about the british sense of humour I think?

(Eugenics is more about breeding out undesirable traits, making people "better".)

[nibbler]

Cystic fibrosis, muscular distrophy, spina bifida...
All of these could be wiped out in maybe 200 years if people agreed not to have children if they were a sufferer. The time delay there is due to the recessive form of the gene being passed on (being carried) by people who are unaware of it: that is how two people who are unnaffected by CF can have a child who suffers from it. It should be a personal choice, but a bit of publicity would go a long way. IMO you should never force someone not to have children, but making them understand the implications is a different matter. That's just education surely.

[TheAnimus]

But is it ok for society to feel pissed off when two people who know they have a chance, albeit a small one, of having a child with a serious illness throw caution to the wind and have said child.

Also what about people who are unable to support themselves having children?

Then how long before the line of unable to support oneself is it to not worthy?

[nibbler]

IMO you are going too far if you intervene and say that two people are forbidden from having a child. You can feel pissed off if you want, that's a basic human right surely

[Terbinator]

I would expect the argument against Eugenics is that why stop at weeding out the black marks so to speak? Lets just let the strongest of us breed for the super race.

Nibbler, i think producing a sprog is convention more than a right

[Saracen]

....

On the eugenics front it is about time we had some sort of control over ourselves as a race/populace. I don't think the state should shy away from suggesting maybe its best if you don't have kids, or if you do only have one.

Absolutely .... but it's one thing for the state to "suggest" things, or even to decline to fork over benefits if you ignore the suggestion, and entirely another for it to grab people off the streets for forced sterilisation of those it regards as sub-humans, or even to actively pursue "pure" breeding experiments. We should be free to breed with whomever we damn well please, subject to the other party being agreeable of course, though I totally agree we should all take more responsibility for doing so. Don't have loads of kids if you can't afford to raise them, and don't expect everyone else to pay for it when you keep popping them out, like a metronome beat, every 9 months.