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Thread: Where do I legally stand?

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    Jay
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    Where do I legally stand?

    I have recently handed my notice in at my place of work due to ongoing issues with top level management blocking all requests for funds for on going IT projects. Recently I have had my ability to do the job questioned and for the past 18 months all proposals have been turned down. Top level management simply says no to any expenditure (even though we are a highly profitable organisation)

    I have now been asked to put all my proposals, plans of action and itinerarys together into a report and pass them on to top level management so they can hand these to a new member of IT staff.

    I feel here that they want me to re-plan the entire network project for them before I leave as it obvious the new IT staff do not have the ability. As my projects have been turned down due to cost and due to the nasty things that have been said after I handed in my notice I don't want to hand over any project plans.

    Do I have to pass all my plans onto them or can i tell them to stick it?

    Ps

    My projects would have gone ahead if I had given into the board’s demands of using illegal, unlicensed software and the fact that I will not go this route means I have been forced out of my job.
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    Filthy old man noTHINGface's Avatar
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    Re: Where do I legally stand?

    Check your contract. Generally all IP belongs to the company.
    What we share with everyone is glum, and dark...

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    Jay
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    Re: Where do I legally stand?

    Quote Originally Posted by noTHINGface View Post
    Check your contract. Generally all IP belongs to the company.
    I did, and I don't have one (they made a mess of that!)
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    Re: Where do I legally stand?

    First point, as usual, talk to a lawyer. The best place for employment law is an employment lawyer. If you've been "forced out", you might have a case for constructive dismissal, especially if you can prove that bit about unlicensed software.

    However, taking such action against one employer might well have unintended consequences with future ones, so I suggest careful thought before opening that can of worms.

    As for plans, well, you're still employed, presumably, and still being paid? If your employer is asking you to do something that is within your skill set and something they could legitimately ask of you if you weren't leaving, then it's hard to see a moral argument for not doing work you're being paid for, even if they are going to take advantage of your efforts after you've gone. You're still being paid to do a job, so morally, I'd have thought they're entitled to expect you to do it. Legally, I'd have thought so too, but that's for that employment lawyer.

    Despite being profitable, there might well be issues top management are aware of and you aren't. There might be valid reasons for holding off on expenditure. It's also, in my view, fair enough to get plans made, because if they replace you at all (and might not in the current climate), it might be with someone without your skillset.

    I'd think hard about taking the moral high ground, doing the job you're currently being paid for, doing it well and walking out at the end of your notice with your head held high. If they gain a bit from it, so be it. At least you've kept your self-respect and done the best job you can. So then forget about them and move on.

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    mmh
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    Re: Where do I legally stand?

    I'd set the plans out in the most convoluted and technical means possible, so if someone comes in if they dont know thier arse from thier elbow, they wouldnt know what to do with them regardless!
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    Jay
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    Re: Where do I legally stand?

    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    First point, as usual, talk to a lawyer. The best place for employment law is an employment lawyer. If you've been "forced out", you might have a case for constructive dismissal, especially if you can prove that bit about unlicensed software.

    However, taking such action against one employer might well have unintended consequences with future ones, so I suggest careful thought before opening that can of worms.

    As for plans, well, you're still employed, presumably, and still being paid? If your employer is asking you to do something that is within your skill set and something they could legitimately ask of you if you weren't leaving, then it's hard to see a moral argument for not doing work you're being paid for, even if they are going to take advantage of your efforts after you've gone. You're still being paid to do a job, so morally, I'd have thought they're entitled to expect you to do it. Legally, I'd have thought so too, but that's for that employment lawyer.

    Despite being profitable, there might well be issues top management are aware of and you aren't. There might be valid reasons for holding off on expenditure. It's also, in my view, fair enough to get plans made, because if they replace you at all (and might not in the current climate), it might be with someone without your skillset.

    I'd think hard about taking the moral high ground, doing the job you're currently being paid for, doing it well and walking out at the end of your notice with your head held high. If they gain a bit from it, so be it. At least you've kept your self-respect and done the best job you can. So then forget about them and move on.
    You have some good points there. I won't be taking them to court. The company secretery, HR etc have appologised to me and have said that the company has let me down. They talked to the guys at the top about the terrible bullying etc and they simply said "I am glad he is going, I was going to f*uck him off next week anyway" Accounts have told me that there is no reason why I should not be given the budget to sort out the current illegal software and that they have also had meetings about the issue telling them to sort out the software issues. We have an external body come in becuase the MD didn't think what I was saying was correct and they sent him a report saynig that they must back me and my plans as they are 100% correct.

    All because I didn't want to use dodgy software, in my 11 years in IT I have never used dodgy software and I won't start now! I have no job to go to but I would rather struggle for cash then be part of an operation like that. Still didn't stop the guys at the top buying Bentleys last month.

    This is why I take this stance

    "If an organisation is using illegal copies of software the organisation may face not only a civil suit, but corporate officers and individual employees may have criminal liability."
    Last edited by Jay; 08-02-2009 at 05:23 PM.
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    DILLIGAF GoNz0's Avatar
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    Re: Where do I legally stand?

    change the plans, if its a new network use some nice cheap routers along the lines of 5 year old netgear crap that wont do the job, take em back to the stone age as a thankyou for pushing you out the door. see if you can find anywhere selling old 10mb coax networks for stupid money and include those in the plans, basically screw them, get paid for doing it. your not doing anything wrong, just accidentially secure delete everything you have in place now.

    woops

    wost they can do if send you on gardening leave if they click onto what your doing, otherwise play em at there own game. sounds like you have nothing to lose.

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    Re: Where do I legally stand?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay View Post
    Recently I have had my ability to do the job questioned
    Well if that were true i guess high level managment won't expect your handover to be that comprehensive either

    You don't want to leave on bad grounds, you never know you may find yourself in a position where you need to approach them for a reference - however if you feel you have been dismissed unfairly, then i personally see no reason why you should go all out in preparing material for your replacement, - do what you need to and get out. Besides you have a new job to find, i'm sure your current employer can't complain if your more concerned with finding a new source of income than how they cope when your gone. Good luck with the job search.
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    Jay
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    Re: Where do I legally stand?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteSmith View Post
    Well if that were true i guess high level managment won't expect your handover to be that comprehensive either

    You don't want to leave on bad grounds, you never know you may find yourself in a position where you need to approach them for a reference - however if you feel you have been dismissed unfairly, then i personally see no reason why you should go all out in preparing material for your replacement, - do what you need to and get out. Besides you have a new job to find, i'm sure your current employer can't complain if your more concerned with finding a new source of income than how they cope when your gone. Good luck with the job search.
    Thanks mate.

    I was thinking of doing a fully professional Bound document again (as I always do for project work on this scale) with one letter per page just saying

    BUY LEGAL SOFTWARE!

    We are talking about 4 sites, 100's of PCs here by the way.
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    G4Z
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    Re: Where do I legally stand?

    I would angle for some gardening leave to be honest in exchange for keeping your mouth shut to the BSA.
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    Jay
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    Re: Where do I legally stand?

    Quote Originally Posted by G4Z View Post
    I would angle for some gardening leave to be honest in exchange for keeping your mouth shut to the BSA.
    I will need to make sure they can't pin any of this on me, I have all the emails, reports and the external report at home but I am wondering is that enough to cover my back here?

    I have also decided that, because I have saved enough cash for a bout 4 months off I am going to offer my services part time for free to a few people I know to keep myself in the loop and also do some charity work. I think it will do me some good.
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    DILLIGAF GoNz0's Avatar
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    Re: Where do I legally stand?

    they cant really stop you looking for work during your notice period, but if there going to keep paying you then toss it off while your there and get every penny you can

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    Re: Where do I legally stand?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay View Post
    Where do I legally stand?
    On the pavement.

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    Re: Where do I legally stand?

    wait a second did i read illegal software.... ermm time to report it maybe? what you got to lose

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    Re: Where do I legally stand?

    By illegal software you mean Operating systems i guess? Can't you just play ball then report them anonymously to Microsoft?

    On the other hand, it seems unfair they expect you to play ball when they cannot follow procedure and let you have a budget to install legal software.

    It sounds like a very "dodgy" situation, i would go seek legal advice.
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    Jay
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    Re: Where do I legally stand?

    Quote Originally Posted by AirCop View Post
    On the pavement.
    Wow thanks
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