water pump (and not the PC type)

i know this isnt a typical Hexus question, but thought i would ask, as some1 might have the knowledge

i need to pump water up 3 storey's (say 30ft) the dia pipe/tube is very thin (1/4" stuff)

it will be pumped from a water barrel up 30 ft

right thats about it, oh also, it needs to be battery fed (a car battery will do, as these are farily powerfull and cheap) and i can recharge it fairly easy

any idea's, links online to a store, doesnt have to be new

mainly any idea's at all

i also need to regulate the flow and stop it as and when needed

thanks
matt

Sounds like you need a decent pond pumpas these or ours at least run on 12v supplies, gonna be difficult to find one that'll shift it 30 feet vertically though. Your prolly best off visiting a good aquatics store or garden centre and looking at some

I cant offer anyhelp, but im very curious as to why you need this now :D

lol

will fill you in when i have more of a idea ;)

the beer pumps used in bars would do this job admirably - (bar i worked in the beer cellar was 3 floors below the bar)

in most cases these work using compressed gas (usually CO2) to do the pumping so don't require any electrical input at all



and i too am very intrigued as to why you need to do this??

what sort of flow rates are you looing for? also the more important thing, how much can you afford? This pump can do almost 15ft at almost no flowrate, use 2 or 3 in series and youve got enough flow...
http://store.over-clock.com/Pumps___Accessories.html
There are other types of pump but I know almost nothing about them.

If you have a high torque 12v motor already you could make a shaft-drive pump. High torque is whats needed for pressure, while flowrate is achived with high RPM.
Most pumps are optimised for flow, and wont do much pressure. This would give you a bit of flexability as a high torque pump could be hard to find.
What about car pressure washers? dunno what voltage they run on, probably 230v, but they would do the kind of pressure you need I think...
Does the amount of niose it makes or power it uses matter? (which would then disapate into the water your pumping, so it wouldnt be as cold...)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by petrefax

the beer pumps used in bars would do this job admirably - (bar i worked in the beer cellar was 3 floors below the bar)

in most cases these work using compressed gas (usually CO2) to do the pumping so don't require any electrical input at all



and i too am very intrigued as to why you need to do this??

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How can compressed gas be used?.. I thought beer in kegs was under high pressure anyway?

try some hydroponics supplies shops mate, i think they shud do some strong pumps and pipe etc..

I'd get down to an aquatics center ... if you can afford it you can get some powerful petrol powered pumps.

Any pump that can keep presure up for 30ft up is gonna be expensive tho.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by |SilentDeath|

How can compressed gas be used?.. I thought beer in kegs was under high pressure anyway?

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The hose attachment for the keg has the gas going into it, i.e. when you push the handle down gas comes out, surely this is going into the keg, and thus, what is providing the pressure. So as beer comes out not only is it made "bubblely" but also pushes the beer down the tubes. I believe this is the way that it works, because when the gas runs out, no only does the beer go flat, but also comes out of the tap slower and slower until nothing is coming out at all.

And also, when the beer runs out, you get pint pots filled with bubbles - i.e. the ratio of gas:beer has gone crazily wrong.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by |SilentDeath|

How can compressed gas be used?.. I thought beer in kegs was under high pressure anyway?

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Idea is that if you pump air into a sealed container, you can force the water out (two holes in the container, air going in one - the other covered by water). However, the container must be sealed.

Using this principle, you could always have the pump at the top (where I presume there is 240V power) as pumping water into the barrel would force water out. This would mean that the barrel would have to be water tight and not air tight (probably not much difference though)

I'm as intrigued as everybody else :confused:

would summat like this help? http://www.hydroponic-shop.com/produ...roducts_id=126

ooh yeh, why do you need this anyway?!

Would the water need to come back down again? Ive been thinking that If it was made into a clsoesd system (ie, everything that goes up comes down, and straight back into pump) then it would not have nearly the same pressure requirements as just pumping upwards.
Also when you say 1/4 do you mean the tubings inside diameter, ouside diameter (i hope not) or BSPT thread size (~1/2 tubing OD). using 1/4 OD tube will kill your flow for that height, the water will have a lot of wieght and stop the pump turning. This would be very bad for the pump - it uses more current with more load, so the pump will be disapating more energy than it should be using and ALL as heat, which would burn out the motor coils.. make sure you get some flow when you test it.
Ive been thinking about how you could get v high pressure water, what about pressure washers for cars, dunno how much they cost though, might even run of mains water...
Also using a DC pump, you can adjust the voltage for the best performance. With AC pumps it would seem less voltage improves the torque (need a triac/ligh dimmer for that). It would seem DC pumps are designed mainly to use less current and so reducing voltage wont help much, in this case running a pump at 15-24v would increaase the pressure but the rpm will still be a lot less than with no pressure (full flow). In your case your looking at 1/10th of the max flow or less, imo.
You can run pumps in series to provide pressure, or parrelell to provide flow rates. You can run batterys in series to give more voltage, or alternativly using them in parrelell for higher currents/lasting longer. In parrelell both batterys need to drain at the same rate or they will start to charge each other up - not good. Using a diode on each would fix that.

How much water do you need to move?
There are simple pumps that can move low volumes to almost any height you want, but at low flow.
Look at medical pumps for an idea (rollers squeezing flexible tube to shift fluids - modern equivalent of a sealed Archimedes screw)
Normal magnetic/impeller pumps aren't made for moving liquids very high.