View Poll Results: your view

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16. You may not vote on this poll
  • lets go more to the right, let the unemployed starve

    3 18.75%
  • david is my man for the future

    2 12.50%
  • in Gord we trust

    0 0%
  • i have a better idea (please... do tell)

    2 12.50%
  • i dont really care. your have wasted 5mins of my life

    3 18.75%
  • i want the 5 mins back !!!!!!

    3 18.75%
  • i like the idea of Grolschialism

    3 18.75%
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Thread: my opinion on the future (rant)...whats yours?

  1. #1
    Senior Member j1979's Avatar
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    my opinion on the future (rant)...whats yours?

    ok so even the optimists around here will probably now agree that the world is in deep poop. firms are going belly up faster than clunk can spam. Banks, hedge funds, insurance etc, retail, manufacturing, tourism, leisure the list goes on!

    now my take on the "global downturn" which has been said before is;

    i think that we are heading for times as hard as the great depression, and if our governments don't act correctly we could be heading for the deepest depression ever (riots and French revolution style justice on the bankers). i also think that no matter what we do times will be hard for a long time.

    ironically, i think that countries like Iran/North Korea and other countries that have had international sanctions over the "growth period" will fair very well in this period as they have become very self dependant. i think world domination by the US is over for good, and a global balance will emerge, countries will need to work together more than ever but ..... they will all need their own individual solution to this crisis.

    i think the UK needs to drop capitalism all together as its always the power hungry and greedy that get to the top, and its these same people who i would describe as A BIT DODGY, and have now shown that they can not be trusted. We are in the crap now and its their fault.

    now im sure a lot of people here on Hexus and people read who are not yet members (join its nice here) will think i am "off my head" and to a certain extent they would be right, but.. here's what i think needs to happen.

    we need as a country come together, the divide between rich/poor, left-wing/right-wing Muslim/Christian, young/old is, at the moment increasing (apart from young and old which will remain constant lol). we need to turn this country into a massive self-sufficient island. we need technology to get out of this mess were in, CLEAN and GREEN technology. if anyone has seen the Coconut revolution they will know what im talking about..... im talking about stopping our dependence on oil, gas, we need to reuse and not just recycle. we are inefficient as a nation and this needs to stop. As an example, why do we need to have 1000's of different shaped bottles, carling, grolsch, coca-cola, lemonade, when we could just have a few designs that are reused by all the different brands, if the brands don't like..tough! we need to cut down on our waste, insulate our homes, and open green power stations. Solar, wind, wave, geothermal techs, nano techs to cut down on unnecessary work and energy waste. new transport ideas, we need to grow more of our own foods, and cut down on imports. All this will not only make our nation better off in the long run but will create 100,000's of jobs, skilled, semi-skilled and unskilled. wages also need to be capped, and poverty wiped out, at home and globally. What im talking about sounds a lot like Socialism.. but its more like a new green socialism with the incentives for innovation being something other than greed.

    I don't know if this political system has been named before but id like to call it Grolschialism, god i can't believe im pissed at this time on a Thursday.

    P.S did anyone else notice the global meltdown started at the same time as the LHC... lol haha were all DOOOMed ..

  2. #2
    Flat cap, Whippets, Cave. Clunk's Avatar
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    Re: my opinion on the future (rant)...whats yours?

    Quote Originally Posted by j1979 View Post
    firms are going belly up faster than clunk can spam.
    kthxbye
    Quote Originally Posted by Blitzen View Post
    stupid betond belief.
    You owe it to yourself to click here really.

  3. #3
    radix lecti dave87's Avatar
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    Re: my opinion on the future (rant)...whats yours?

    “The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.” - Winston Churchill.

    Capitalism is here to stay, government regulation only skews the market for political, not economic, necessities, whilst communism doesn't work because of innate human nature - greed.

    Inefficiency or competition? Competition breeds efficiency - as the inefficient companies go bankrupt.

    Protectionism? Merely a solution for short term political gain. Increases in inflation, reduction in availability and quality of goods is the inevitable consequence.

    Wages capped? How will firms motivate the top percentile of workers? More holidays? Productivity drops? More perks? Inequality etc.

  4. #4
    Senior Member j1979's Avatar
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    Re: my opinion on the future (rant)...whats yours?

    Quote Originally Posted by dave87 View Post
    Wages capped? How will firms motivate the top percentile of workers? More holidays? Productivity drops? More perks? Inequality etc.
    mmm how to motivate the greedy .... it's difficult, but i guess if they dont want to work for less then they will be free to starve or move to a capitalist country, ohhh no wait there are no new jobs in these country's. i guess let them starve, if there not prepared to work for the greater good of humanity and the planet, then they are not welcome.

    just my view.... dont just dismiss it with out giving your alternative...so what do you think about the global downturn and the future? what would you do?

  5. #5
    radix lecti dave87's Avatar
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    Re: my opinion on the future (rant)...whats yours?

    My alternative?

    Well, I don't really have one. That is because, as far as I see it, there is little to correct.


    I will argue that the notion of mortgaging the future to pay for the present was a dumb idea, especially as the Keynesian notion of economic recovery uses that very path (a little difficult when you are borrowing to service the debts accumulated during the good times), and for that the Government deserves a shoeing.

    With regards your notion of the migration of the top percentile, does that not simply lend the idea of a 'brain drain' to nations willing to provide the remuneration acceptable to someone with a higher skill set, arguably damaging the economy in the longer term.

    So my initiative would be relax rules on loans, allow the banks to lend to viable businesses (they've been bitten hard by the sub prime crisis in America, not likely to make that mistake again) and foster the revision of the economy to one which is more efficient and more competitive. Add to that a resumption in trade with nations that have materials we want whilst limiting our exposure to the more volatile markets - through self sufficiency or stockpiles, and you have the start of an economic recovery.

    Obviously it is not this simple, and requires input from companies rather than the Government attempting (and failing) to manage or direct the economy, but simple measures will reap the rewards in the longer term.


    My personal opinion, however, is that we should have avoided this mess in the first place, rather than trying to fix a cock up after it has happened.

  6. #6
    Banhammer in peace PeterB kalniel's Avatar
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    Re: my opinion on the future (rant)...whats yours?

    j1979, you haven't said how you'd motivate them. So far all they'd do is turn up to work and do the bare minimum to avoid losing the job. No incentive to work better and thus provide better efficiency to pull the country forward, give everyone else better value for money and everything else that is good about the capitalist system.

    Alternative to socialism that works? Capitalism. The fact that mistakes do result in problems (eg the credit crunch) is actually part of the system and shouldn't be avoided. What is needed is transparancy and accountability so that people can make informed decisions. The lack of that is more or less the only reason your honest citizen has been personally affected.

    Self sufficient island? Really, no chance. Alternative power generation? Paid for by what? People don't even want nice windmills in their area. Or would you turn around and ignore people's views and instead force decisions upon them? Sounds more like dictatorship than socialism if so.

    Capitalism works for our current morality and inteligence. If you could enlighten the masses then perhaps a more Platonic Philosopher-King system would be better, but then Iran shows it has it's consequences while directed in particular ways too.
    Last edited by kalniel; 12-02-2009 at 03:55 PM.

  7. #7
    Gold Member Marcos's Avatar
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    Re: my opinion on the future (rant)...whats yours?

    i wish the government had more balls, anything that is a real problem, deal with it harsh and swift. People flooding in? Close the gates. Do we need to recycle more? Make it mandatory, make it the norm.

    Just make it the norm to do whatever needs to be done, for everyone, that way no one complains, no one feels bad because some people have to do something and others dont.

    Its a bit extreme but considering the situation, its 1 way that would work until we get back on track. You'll notice when absolutely everybody has to do a certain thing, people dont feel so bad about having to do it. It becomes the norm.

  8. #8
    Seething Cauldron of Hatred TheAnimus's Avatar
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    Re: my opinion on the future (rant)...whats yours?

    Quote Originally Posted by j1979 View Post
    mmm how to motivate the greedy .... it's difficult, but i guess if they dont want to work for less then they will be free to starve or move to a capitalist country, ohhh no wait there are no new jobs in these country's. i guess let them starve, if there not prepared to work for the greater good of humanity and the planet, then they are not welcome.

    just my view.... dont just dismiss it with out giving your alternative...so what do you think about the global downturn and the future? what would you do?
    If i didn't get paid 3 times as much as my flatmate, i'd work for her firm.

    If I only got twice as much on offer, i'd still work for her firm.

    They don't pay me money because they like me. They pay because if they didn't i'd be elsewhere. If i was willing to work a little harder, i'd have no difficulty getting another 20k+, i just can't get my mind to focus for long enough!
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  9. #9
    Senior Member j1979's Avatar
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    Re: my opinion on the future (rant)...whats yours?

    Quote Originally Posted by dave87 View Post
    My alternative?

    Well, I don't really have one. That is because, as far as I see it, there is little to correct.


    I will argue that the notion of mortgaging the future to pay for the present was a dumb idea, especially as the Keynesian notion of economic recovery uses that very path (a little difficult when you are borrowing to service the debts accumulated during the good times), and for that the Government deserves a shoeing.

    With regards your notion of the migration of the top percentile, does that not simply lend the idea of a 'brain drain' to nations willing to provide the remuneration acceptable to someone with a higher skill set, arguably damaging the economy in the longer term.

    So my initiative would be relax rules on loans, allow the banks to lend to viable businesses (they've been bitten hard by the sub prime crisis in America, not likely to make that mistake again) and foster the revision of the economy to one which is more efficient and more competitive. Add to that a resumption in trade with nations that have materials we want whilst limiting our exposure to the more volatile markets - through self sufficiency or stockpiles, and you have the start of an economic recovery.

    Obviously it is not this simple, and requires input from companies rather than the Government attempting (and failing) to manage or direct the economy, but simple measures will reap the rewards in the longer term.


    My personal opinion, however, is that we should have avoided this mess in the first place, rather than trying to fix a cock up after it has happened.
    some good points.. but one thing i will pickup on is the assumption that the highest paid are the most intelligent, where statistics show there is a link to higher IQ and higher wages, this is likely due to the fact that higher jobs automatically pay higher and not down to greed. where as greed is liked to low IQ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...cientists.html

  10. #10
    Welcome to stampytown! Salazaar's Avatar
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    Re: my opinion on the future (rant)...whats yours?

    Communism only works well on communes. Go figure.
    ____
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  11. #11
    Senior Member j1979's Avatar
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    Re: my opinion on the future (rant)...whats yours?

    Quote Originally Posted by kalniel View Post
    Self sufficient island? Really, no chance. Alternative power generation? Paid for by what? People don't even want nice windmills in their area. Or would you turn around and ignore people's views and instead force decisions upon them? Sounds more like dictatorship than socialism if so.
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...86025577999101

    i meant more self-sufficient, not self sufficient

    watch this, its uplifting. im saying to cut down on things that we can produce here, like food, drugs, energy and fuel.
    Last edited by j1979; 12-02-2009 at 04:30 PM.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Stringent's Avatar
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    Re: my opinion on the future (rant)...whats yours?

    Savings interest will hit 0%

  13. #13
    mutantbass head Lee H's Avatar
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    Re: my opinion on the future (rant)...whats yours?

    I've come to the conclusion there's no point wasting your time worrying about it any more. Get on with your life and enjoy it to the max as there is a small amount of time between been born and ending up as worm food in a grave.

  14. #14
    Seething Cauldron of Hatred TheAnimus's Avatar
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    Re: my opinion on the future (rant)...whats yours?

    Quote Originally Posted by j1979 View Post
    some good points.. but one thing i will pickup on is the assumption that the highest paid are the most intelligent, where statistics show there is a link to higher IQ and higher wages, this is likely due to the fact that higher jobs automatically pay higher and not down to greed. where as greed is liked to low IQ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...cientists.html
    That link has nothing to do with greed of money.

    Interestingly, those i know who work the longest hours are also those who don't seam to squander money despite earning more of it.

    One former colleague of mine in particular see's her salary as a affirmation of how good she is and her self worth, this is qutie worrying to me because she's married with kids. In the same way some people at school work harder to get A's. She works harder to get £'s.

    You assumption that all people who work hard enough for massive bonuses are greedy is very obviously ignorant and completely un-informed even if you've interned as the desk juinor (aka btch) you will of noticed that.

    Thats not to say there isn't always a few who slip throu and get paid far more than they deserve.
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  15. #15
    Senior Member j1979's Avatar
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    Re: my opinion on the future (rant)...whats yours?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheAnimus View Post
    That link has nothing to do with greed of money.
    greed is greed in all its forms.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheAnimus View Post
    You assumption that all people who work hard enough for massive bonuses are greedy is very obviously ignorant and completely un-informed
    but before you said......
    Quote Originally Posted by TheAnimus View Post
    If i didn't get paid 3 times as much as my flatmate, i'd work for her firm.

    If I only got twice as much on offer, i'd still work for her firm.

    They don't pay me money because they like me. They pay because if they didn't i'd be elsewhere. If i was willing to work a little harder, i'd have no difficulty getting another 20k+, i just can't get my mind to focus for long enough!
    so your working for the greed of money then! and if you were slightly less lazy or slightly more greedy, you could earn even more? sorry i can't really see any other way of interpreting what you have said!.

    i think a doctor should become a doctor because he/she wants to help people, and not for any other reason.

  16. #16
    Seething Cauldron of Hatred TheAnimus's Avatar
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    Re: my opinion on the future (rant)...whats yours?

    Quote Originally Posted by j1979 View Post
    i think a doctor should become a doctor because he/she wants to help people, and not for any other reason.
    So what do you do?

    Why do you think i'm greedy, you've no idea of the life i lead, or the resources i consume, or how i support my parents have you?

    I take hudge pride in what i do, and relish the challenge, but at the end of the day if it didn't comp more than a less stressful job i'd do that.

    If gread is gread in all its forms, we can take the idea that you are gready. Here's how.
    Given the population of the earth, those that are starving right now etc, you've got far more than the mean average in terms of resources (food, clean water, hard currency etc.) This is obvious based on the internet access you have alone.

    Yet you still keep these things. If you where someone who was helping dig water trenches in the 3rd world right now rather than ranting, you might have a sense of right rather than pure hypocrosy descised by moral superiority.

    Instead you fail to see your the embodyment of the human nature which lends itself to capitalisim rather than communisim.

    You also really don't understand greed. From the dictionary:
    "desire for more of something (as money) than is needed"
    What is more than is needed? Anything you judge as more than needed?
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