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Thread: Bin the Eurofighter Tranche 3

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    Welcome to stampytown! Salazaar's Avatar
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    Bin the Eurofighter Tranche 3

    Tranche 3 of the Eurofighter programme is a massive white elephant eating huge chunks out of our military budget which could otherwise be spent on equipping the armed services with gear for our troops, helicopters and proper aircraft carriers. The treasury has indicated that even with the penalties involved it would cost less to pull out of the deal than to carry on with this massively overpriced project however Gordon Brown has intervened and insisted that we continue with Tranche 3. If you disagree with this massive mis-spend please sign this e-petition!


    http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/stop-eurofighter/

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/06...er_e_petition/
    Last edited by Salazaar; 09-06-2009 at 01:06 PM.
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    WEEEEEEEEEEEEE! MadduckUK's Avatar
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    Re: Bin the Eurofighter Tranche 3

    e-petition
    Quote Originally Posted by Ephesians
    Do not be drunk with wine, which will ruin you, but be filled with the Spirit
    Vodka

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    Senior Member Tonka777's Avatar
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    Re: Bin the Eurofighter Tranche 3

    And what do you suggest we use for a strike capability if Tranche 3 is binned?

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    Welcome to stampytown! Salazaar's Avatar
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    Re: Bin the Eurofighter Tranche 3

    Quote Originally Posted by Tonka777 View Post
    And what do you suggest we use for a strike capability if Tranche 3 is binned?
    UAVs (Reapers and the like which cost a fraction and can be manned by NCOs), Joint Strike Fighters, hell we could even afford F-22s for the prices they're talking about.

    The problem is that at best the Eurofighter would be a compromise as a strike fighter anyway. The decision to keep going with the programme is political rather than from a real need for what Tranche 3 provides. Where as we need helicopters and better gear for our ground troops.
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    Banhammer in peace PeterB kalniel's Avatar
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    Re: Bin the Eurofighter Tranche 3

    I think it's great that some in the british public feel they are expert enough in these matters to go against the professional's opinions

    Anyway, who cares what we think - it's going to be Cameron's decision

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    Welcome to stampytown! Salazaar's Avatar
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    Re: Bin the Eurofighter Tranche 3

    Quote Originally Posted by kalniel View Post
    I think it's great that some in the british public feel they are expert enough in these matters to go against the professional's opinions

    Anyway, who cares what we think - it's going to be Cameron's decision
    To be fair it's only the RAF and BAe System's opinion that Tranche 3 should go ahead since they both have a vested interest. As said the Treasury, the Army and the Navy are siding against it.

    And since it's our (public) money being spent everyone has the right to have an opinion!
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    Re: Bin the Eurofighter Tranche 3

    Whilst i agree that the ground forces do need equipment upgrades, and there is a need for more helicopters, funding them by not having a strike capability in 10 years is not a good way of doing it.

    Are you seriously saying that you think we should pay the fines that would be incurred by not purchasing tranche 3 and get nothing to show for it, instead of pay for the aircraft and receive them?
    I know what would be a bigger waste of money!

    UAVs cost a fraction of a jet strike aircraft because they can only perform in a fraction of the roles jet aircraft can, and if we decide to pay the fines for not purchasing tranche 3 and put the development cost up on the other Typhoon airframes, where is the money going to come from to buy the F-22s that you suggested?

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    Banhammer in peace PeterB kalniel's Avatar
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    Re: Bin the Eurofighter Tranche 3

    Quote Originally Posted by Salazaar View Post
    And since it's our (public) money being spent everyone has the right to have an opinion!
    What, and ignore the democratic process?

    People have the right to have their vote count for something rather than attempting to bypass it. We elect people to understand these issues on our behalf.

    If you're going to look at vested interests then to be fair the treasury, army and navy have a vested interest against it

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    Re: Bin the Eurofighter Tranche 3

    The Eurofighter is a great plane and all, but I don't really understand why it exists. The cold war was well and truly over only a few years into the inception of this plane, so why on earth were the military so obsessed with the idea of a highly mission-inflexible air-to-air superiority fighter? It makes even less sense when you think of the typical missions flown during the first gulf war.

    Gordon Brown would probably be a much better Prime-Minister if he just did the exact opposite of what he initially thought was the best course of action.

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    Re: Bin the Eurofighter Tranche 3

    Quote Originally Posted by Tonka777 View Post
    Whilst i agree that the ground forces do need equipment upgrades, and there is a need for more helicopters, funding them by not having a strike capability in 10 years is not a good way of doing it.
    Or we could pay waaay over the odds for strike capability that doesn't really meet the requirement anyway and half of which will be mothballed from the outset. It seems like a bad deal either way, at least by canning it now and paying the fines we'll still have some money to buy something off the shelf.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tonka777 View Post
    Are you seriously saying that you think we should pay the fines that would be incurred by not purchasing tranche 3 and get nothing to show for it, instead of pay for the aircraft and receive them?
    I know what would be a bigger waste of money!
    Yes, the Treasury think it's a good idea and they know the sums far better than any of us. We'll still have Tranche 1 and 2, for what they're worth and as I said we may still have enough left over to invest in a programme that actually does the job.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tonka777 View Post
    UAVs cost a fraction of a jet strike aircraft because they can only perform in a fraction of the roles jet aircraft can, and if we decide to pay the fines for not purchasing tranche 3 and put the development cost up on the other Typhoon airframes, where is the money going to come from to buy the F-22s that you suggested?
    I'm not suggesting we actually go and buy the F22, the American wouldn't sell it to us for a start. But it is striking that after Tranche 3 the unit cost for a Eurofighter would be higher than the F22, a far more advanced aircraft.

    Depending on exchange rates, this would make UK Eurofighters even more expensive than the American F-22 Raptor stealth ultrafighter - and considerably less capable.
    The point is that there are off the shelf alternatives still open to us at much lower cost to the tax payer and which would still leave funds available for other (arguably much more essential) programmes but the political powers that be need to be seen to be buying British, whatever the cost.
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    Re: Bin the Eurofighter Tranche 3

    Quote Originally Posted by Fraz View Post
    The Eurofighter is a great plane and all, but I don't really understand why it exists. The cold war was well and truly over only a few years into the inception of this plane, so why on earth were the military so obsessed with the idea of a highly mission-inflexible air-to-air superiority fighter? It makes even less sense when you think of the typical missions flown during the first gulf war.

    Gordon Brown would probably be a much better Prime-Minister if he just did the exact opposite of what he initially thought was the best course of action.
    The cold-war might be over but who knows what is around the corner? The idea of superior fighting power from the RAF is so that they can respond to any threat at any time with the best amount of force possible. Having a highly adaptable plane is for mission versitility. I fully support Tranche 3. Military spending for development in general always costs a lot but it is a necessity.
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    Re: Bin the Eurofighter Tranche 3

    I say bin the Typhoon, cost us too much, was too late and again the other countries we have involved in it always argue and change the goal posts part way thru the project so they can do some willy waving and say ooo look we built this or that part of it...

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    Re: Bin the Eurofighter Tranche 3

    Don't really think it's the public's business to start getting involved in stuff like this. People read an article, believe every word it says, and then sticks their name down - irrespective of whether said article is complete rubbish or not.

    The forces will always be fighting with each other over who gets the latest investment - and I've got faith in those who preside over it to make sure that each one gets a fair share and maintains their strength.

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    Welcome to stampytown! Salazaar's Avatar
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    Re: Bin the Eurofighter Tranche 3

    How is it not our business? It's our money funding it all, being funneled into one project or another by our elected representatives in parliament... ah wait, there's the problem
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    Re: Bin the Eurofighter Tranche 3

    Quote Originally Posted by Salazaar View Post
    How is it not our business? It's our money funding it all, being funneled into one project or another by our elected representatives in parliament... ah wait, there's the problem
    Nope, sorry. Not seeing the problem there.

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    Re: Bin the Eurofighter Tranche 3

    Quote Originally Posted by Salazaar View Post
    Joint Strike Fighters, hell we could even afford F-22s for the prices they're talking about.
    I think that you will find that JSF is going to be at least as costly as Typhoon & even the USA can't afford F-22s anymore, they are way dearer than Typhoon.

    Do we really need 2 massive carriers though - how about not going ahead with those to save money

    The Army, Navy & RAF are always going to squabble about funding & fight there own corners.
    The real problem though is at a government level not service level & that's committing our services to doing too much with too little manpower & resources.

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