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Thread: Light sensors cause religious row

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    Senior Member AledJ's Avatar
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    Light sensors cause religious row

    Before i write any more i just want to point out that this is not an attack on any religion.


    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/dorset/8103581.stm

    Now I have no idea why the light sensors seems to be a problem which they claim prevent them from leaving on the Sabbath. Apparently their belief means they can not have can not have electrical equipment on during Jewish holidays.


    They have claimed on the grounds of religious discrimination and a breach of their rights under the Equality Act 2006 and Human Rights Act 1998. Now in order to prove religious discrimination they need to show that the management company or developers intended to discriminate against them by putting these light sensors in.

    Now according to this couple installing these light sensors breached their religious rules. Now without wanting to offend anyone i do think there mad!! Ok they did ask for some over die switch to be put in but that would mean more cost/more work and an inconvenience to others in the building from the work being carried out.

    "They also said that their solicitors told them they had a strong claim." They obviously do not know solicitors very well lol The solitors will get paid at the end of the day no matter what. Yes solictors dont want to loose cases, but in these times any money is good money.

    Way I see it they won't win!!

    Anyone want to agree disagree?
    Last edited by AledJ; 16-06-2009 at 08:50 PM.

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    jim
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    Re: Light sensors cause religious row

    My interpretation of Sabbath has always been that you're not meant to do any work. Whilst I appreciate that the word "work" can be extended a very long way - i.e. does pulling a chair out from under the table count as work? - I fail to understand how this falls under that guideline.

    Clearly turning on electrical equipment could be termed as work, if it is say a washing machine, which is probably where this idea of "not using electrical equipment" developed. Ultimately though in this situation the light turns itself on, so it requires no interaction from them, and hence I don't understand.

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    IBM
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    Re: Light sensors cause religious row

    just as mad as anything else. They probably asked the landlords/whoever to change them across and got so fed up with what they saw as a valid request being ignore that they ended up in court.
    sig removed by Zak33

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    Senior Member AledJ's Avatar
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    Re: Light sensors cause religious row

    Quote Originally Posted by IBM View Post
    just as mad as anything else. They probably asked the landlords/whoever to change them across and got so fed up with what they saw as a valid request being ignore that they ended up in court.
    From what the management company said I don't think they are the problem. Yes, some management companies can be annoying, and drag things out (my sister has had problems with them) But the rest of the people in this building like the light sensors!! Plus as i said before installing a some other switch so the sensors would not operate at certain time, would require more work to be done.

    Their wasting their time and money!! Unless they have some hard proof that that the management company intended to discriminate, they paddling up a creek with no paddle (so to speak)

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    Formerly known as Andehh Andeh13's Avatar
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    Re: Light sensors cause religious row

    Stay indoors for one day? Its not hard to have a couple of nice meals, some films, bit of cleaning etc to take up that one day.

    What about following someone else as they walk out? Knock on a neighbours door, explain the problem to them(accept ridicule) then follow them out. Im a genius!

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    Senior Member AledJ's Avatar
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    Re: Light sensors cause religious row

    This is still confusing me lol


    "The couple's religious code bans lights and other electrical equipment being switched on during Jewish holidays. "

    But they are not turning the lights on its the sensor doing that. So i'm lost as to where their argument is lol

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    Re: Light sensors cause religious row

    Quote Originally Posted by Andehh View Post
    Stay indoors for one day? Its not hard to have a couple of nice meals, some films, bit of cleaning etc to take up that one day.
    Ahh, but you have a problem here:

    Watching films requires a TV, DVD/BLu-Ray player, so that is electricity, and cooking requries cookers, fridge..., and cooking which is work and electricity. Looks like they have to sleep all day

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    Senior Member AledJ's Avatar
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    Re: Light sensors cause religious row

    Quote Originally Posted by Will404 View Post
    Ahh, but you have a problem here:

    Watching films requires a TV, DVD/BLu-Ray player, so that is electricity, and cooking requries cookers, fridge..., and cooking which is work and electricity. Looks like they have to sleep all day
    I bet they would claim sleeping was work too.

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    Re: Light sensors cause religious row

    I'm all for religious tolerance, but it works the other way around too.

    Light sensors are a very sensible thing - means you save quite a lot of electricity when the hallway isn't being used. Good financially and for the environment, and I'm sure lots of people in the complex appreciate it. If it offends their religious sensibilities, especially in such a trivial way, then don't live there.

    Sucks that the other residents will have to pay the legal cost, too.

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    Re: Light sensors cause religious row

    Quote Originally Posted by AledJ View Post
    But they are not turning the lights on its the sensor doing that. So i'm lost as to where their argument is lol
    Not that I buy the argument, but I can see it: they are affecting the sensors by their mere presence, so the sensor are basically analogous to the switch and their presence an act of switching.

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    DDY
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    Re: Light sensors cause religious row

    Does electrical include brain activity? It sounds like they've switched that off too.

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    Formerly known as Andehh Andeh13's Avatar
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    Re: Light sensors cause religious row

    Quote Originally Posted by Will404 View Post
    Ahh, but you have a problem here:

    Watching films requires a TV, DVD/BLu-Ray player, so that is electricity, and cooking requries cookers, fridge..., and cooking which is work and electricity. Looks like they have to sleep all day
    touche! Let them play card games & starve then!

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    Moderator chuckskull's Avatar
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    Re: Light sensors cause religious row

    Two words; Circuit Breaker.

    I should get paid for this.

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    Re: Light sensors cause religious row

    Quote Originally Posted by chuckskull View Post
    Two words; Circuit Breaker.

    I should get paid for this.
    The couple did offer to pay for some sort of override switch! However, it seems they were still talking through options when the couple brought legal action.

    These light sensors seem to be in the public/hall ways of the building. If there in the public area and not their private space, they have no leg to stand on!

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    Re: Light sensors cause religious row

    Well if it's a public area, do they expect the street lights off during the sabbath as well?

    Then there's the problem that as I understand Jewish tradition; anything that can save a life or prevent harm(a light in a public area) overrides any other restriction of Jewish law.

    EDIT: After prodding a Jewish friend out of curiosity, it's the fact the light is triggered by their presence. If the light was already on that would normally be considered ok. Igniting a fire on shabbat is not allowed, but if the fire's already lit that's ok. This is the modern interpretation.
    Last edited by chuckskull; 17-06-2009 at 12:11 AM.

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    Re: Light sensors cause religious row

    I'm not adverse to the idea of going without electrical equipment on the odd day or so (I think it might be good to put into perspective our reliance on these things every now and then), but I think they're being petty in this case given that this is a public area and the management have already offered a solution for them.

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