MJ thread. DO NOT READ IF MJ'S DEATH HAS UPSET YOU

[CaseyV9]

Please do not get this wrong. This is not MJ bashing. This thread is not the place for MJ jokes.

I can uderstand some people are upset. And I'm sure I'm the only one who is not really bothered.
But on the other thread as the MODS said, views contradicting good, or postive comments were not welcome. Annoying for me as I wanted to discuss MJ freely.

On the other thread on this forum I made a few suggestions that MJ was messed up. That he did not seem to be a genuine person.

I've been watching the Martin Bashir doc on Youtube. It is done in 9 parts. It seemed okay. but the last 2 parts seemed see MJ's image flake away. As I hear in other places, people say bashir was somehow slimmy and deliberetly set out to attack the vulerable man. But I found that Bashir was honest with MJ and asked MJ what other people were too afraid to ask him. And he asked what I was thinking at the same time.
Here are the last 2 parts of the docs on Youtube:

Part 8. After 6.00 Bashir confronyts Jackson about surgery

The Final Part

And also on an earlier part of the show it showed MJ going into a store just buying whatever the hell he wanted.

I got the impression that MJ simply had so much money he could what he wanted. Become a white man. Anything. What are your thoughts on this?

[neonplanet40]

Well as for spending money when he wanted. This helped avoid getting taxed to hell. I agree he contradicted his own "Black or White" song when he bleached his skin.

However i do think he was a genuinely good person and was "too nice" for the world we now live in. People that are as nice and innocent as his get torn to shreds through life and in the end it destroyed his life and his health.

[staffsMike]

You aren't the only one. I love the Jackson 5 and I do really like some of the music he made (and dancing he did), the man certainly knew how to do a live show.

However, I don't generally get too upset when celebrities die (they aren't the only ones dying afterall) but I hope he finds some peace where he is because obviously he got a hell of a lot and bad press and perhaps not all his dogs were barking. Whether the latter was just in front of cameras or not though I don't know, I assume not.

[PeterStoba]

You aren't the only one. I love the Jackson 5 and I do really like some of the music he made (and dancing he did), the man certainly knew how to do a live show.

However, I don't generally get too upset when celebrities die (they aren't the only ones dying afterall) but I hope he finds some peace where he is because obviously he got a hell of a lot and bad press and perhaps not all his dogs were barking. Whether the latter was just in front of cameras or not though I don't know, I assume not.

I feel exactly the same, I admire the man for his abilities and what he done for the music industry, but I suppose we will never know the real MJ, or the reasons for his actions, which is a shame because he had an interesting life.

I don't think he did anything to those kids, people just took advantage of his kind nature and knew he wouldn't want his reputation ruined, the rest just followed suit. If you think about it - he was still a kid, having sleepovers with other kids, its pretty normal (although he was a man, makes it kinda strange). I don't get why random kids were staying at his house though, anybody know?

So yeah, I do feel sorry for him and what he had to put up with towards the end of his life, but the jokes are funny, as are all jokes.

[CaseyV9]

I feel exactly the same, I admire the man for his abilities and what he done for the music industry, but I suppose we will never know the real MJ, or the reasons for his actions, which is a shame because he had an interesting life.

I don't think he did anything to those kids, people just took advantage of his kind nature and knew he wouldn't want his reputation ruined, the rest just followed suit. If you think about it - he was still a kid, having sleepovers with other kids, its pretty normal (although he was a man, makes it kinda strange). I don't get why random kids were staying at his house though, anybody know?

So yeah, I do feel sorry for him and what he had to put up with towards the end of his life, but the jokes are funny, as are all jokes.

I think the think that makes me feel uneasy is MJ seemed to make it completeley innocent for a 40+ bloke to have sleepovers and sleep with in the same bed as kids.
To me, a man who can sleep in the same bed as children and have sleepovers is a dangerous man.

The other thing was that he seemed to be projecting an image of himself that was not true to himself.

In that doc he lied several times. It wasn't until the end he admitted that all his children were basically serogate mothers. And I just think he's blatantly lieing about the surgery. He's in denial about a lot of things. And the thing that worries me the most is that the children seem to be the only ones naieve enough to believe him.

He worries me a lot. Thing is though, he may not have done anything to those kids. You can see there is something very wrong.

But some of the jokes out there are very funny

[TooNice]

It may be 'strange' because it's something few people would do. But if he's done nothing, then, no, I do not see that there is something 'very wrong'. I go by result, and possibly intent.

[Rebel]

I am just going to COPY a post I made elsewhere, because I too believe too much is being made of this entertainer, after all that is exactly what he was no more and no less, very talented (according to some) but more than that?

Sure he was very successful but a lot of that was because with modern technology the world of music is more accessible to more people than ever before.

I really disliked Elvis Presley's music, but he was a superstar in the same way MJ was, I liked the Beatles, Cliff Richard has stood the test of time, a number 1 hit in every decade from the 50's through to today, MJ didn't survive that test did he? These entertainers were superstars just the same as MJ was, the truth is if they were all born at the same time nobody knows who would have been the most successful.

In truth, MJ would probably never have existed if it were not for Elvis, or Cliff, or many others and Elvis and Cliff would never have existed if it were not for their predecessors, MJ just happened to be a gifted musician who was in the right place at the right time with a world that was ready for him and with technology that made it possible for him to reach more people than ever before and many more than his contemporaries.

Without those that went before him, the world would never have been ready for MJ's style of entertainment.

He, like all of todays entertainers was simply a progression of what went before and in the same way people said there would never be an entertainer as popular as Elvis, people are saying the same of MJ.

I am not saying MJ was not a musical genius, too many people who know far more than me believe he was. What I am saying is he hasn't changed the world, he didn't bring peace to the world or discover the theory of relativity, he didn't even push the boundaries of what humanity can achieve like sportsman of the Roger Bannister ilk from the 50's etc

MJ was an entertainer who TV and Video made very very famous who made and wasted a lot of money and who had some strange ideas of acceptable behaviour.

Would any of us have even HEARD of MJ if Television didn't exist? I think even that is unlikely!

A talented performer? Yes.
A world changing man who made a real difference to humanity? NOT in my book.

Bob Geldof has done far more for humanity than MJ could dream of. (and I don't like him either).

[Barakka]

I think the think that makes me feel uneasy is MJ seemed to make it completeley innocent for a 40+ bloke to have sleepovers and sleep with in the same bed as kids.
To me, a man who can sleep in the same bed as children and have sleepovers is a dangerous man.

The other thing was that he seemed to be projecting an image of himself that was not true to himself.

In that doc he lied several times. It wasn't until the end he admitted that all his children were basically serogate mothers. And I just think he's blatantly lieing about the surgery. He's in denial about a lot of things. And the thing that worries me the most is that the children seem to be the only ones naieve enough to believe him.

MJ was effectively a child still, in his head, he never grew up mentally so the concepts people find hardest to accept regarding this behaviour around children are the ones when they view him as being as mature and socially developed as any other >40 year old.

He was a victim of the celebrity status that was thrust upon him, combined with the family upbringing he had, being one of many siblings, but also the youngest, and also the most talented didn't help. But he grew up both in the spotlight, and also sheltered from the life lessons that everyone needs to learn. It's something that doesn't happen as much today, the schools of psychology were turned on their heads repeatedly in the 70's,80's, and 90's so we now know more about the effects of such exposures and sheltering.

I saw the Martin Bashir interview when it was first broadcast and watched it with little pre-disposition other than my usual open-mindedness and tendancy not to pre-judge. What I saw was a relatively unheard of news reporter trying to make a household name of himself by taking advantage of a vulnerable individual that thought they could trust him.

As for his influence on the world, no I don't think he had a big impact on humanity more than other globally recognised musicians. But his impact on modern music was as big as that of Elvis and The Beatles but in a different way, where MJ made his biggest impact was his innovations. Thriller was one of the most significant pieces of work ever and one of the greatest albums of all time, but the music video just topped it off being massively innovative and changing the course of music videos forever. The thing is, he didn't need to do a video like that, Thriller was already massive and was going to be as big as it was without the video, but he wanted it that way. That is his legacy as I see it, someone always wanting to push things forward regardless of cost or effort, a perfectionist always willing to give his all. RIP

[CaseyV9]

I saw the Martin Bashir interview when it was first broadcast and watched it with little pre-disposition other than my usual open-mindedness and tendancy not to pre-judge. What I saw was a relatively unheard of news reporter trying to make a household name of himself by taking advantage of a vulnerable individual that thought they could trust him.

I cannot see how he took advantage. He was honest with MJ. MJ seemed to have serious problems. I think he seriously needed help. And it seemed that there were not enough people around to be honest with MJ and try to make him understand he needed help.

As a result it left him vulnerable and open to these acusations that were brought upon him.

Just to take a look at this. You go to interview a 40+ bloke. His home is a childrens theme park. Every day craploads of kids come there and meet MJ. As you interview him further you find out he shares his bed with children. As you interview the guy you see him holding hands and being very close to a kid. Now you report that interview to an audience and not make that look bad.

I look at this. I can see the guy is not right. I understand that both times he was in trouble with these allegations that he was found not guilty due to lack of evidence. And the people accussing him were known for trying to extort money out of people. But he was easily in the position to do these things.

[Russ]

A talented performer? Yes.
A world changing man who made a real difference to humanity? NOT in my book.

[Taken from allmichaeljackson.com ]

We have made an alphabetical list of known charities that Michael Jackson has individualy supported publically throughout his career. Michael Jackson also helped set up Heal The World Foundation, the charities this has supported have not been listed. Read our Heal The World/kids page for details of this foundation.

* AIDS Project L.A.
* American Cancer Society
* Angel Food
* Big Brothers of Greater Los Angeles
* BMI Foundation, Inc.
* Brotherhood Crusade
* Brothman Burn Center
* Camp Ronald McDonald
* Childhelp U.S.A.
* Children's Institute International
* Cities and Schools Scholarship Fund
* Community Youth Sports & Arts Foundation
* Congressional Black Caucus (CBC)
* Dakar Foundation
* Dreamstreet Kids
* Dreams Come True Charity
* Elizabeth Taylor Aids Foundation
* Juvenile Diabetes Foundation
* Love Match
* Make-A-Wish Foundation
* Minority Aids Project
* Motown Museum
* NAACP
* National Rainbow Coalition
* Rotary Club of Australia
* Society of Singers
* Starlight Foundation
* The Carter Center's Atlanta Project
* The Sickle Cell Research Foundation
* Transafrica
* United Negro College Fund (UNCF)
* United Negro College Fund Ladder's of Hope
* Volunteers of America
* Watts Summer Festival
* Wish Granting
* YMCA - 28th Street/Crenshaw

i think that qualifies him as doing his "bit" for humanity....

[j.o.s.h.1408]

^ +1

[DeludedGuy]

There's an interesting article in The Times today - is the nanny telling the truth or is she doing it for the money? I have a strong incline telling me its the truth, she’s virtually powerless against the Jackson family and would obviously need some help from the media if she is going to be able to do anything to help the kids

http://entertainment.timesonline.co....cle6591123.ece

[Russ]

what better time to come out with the story though.. money grabbers are like comedians.. all about one word..












timing.

[chrism]

Bob Geldof has done far more for humanity than MJ could dream of. (and I don't like him either).

What? I thought it was fairly well known that MJ was a charititable guy.

I don't get your argument about TV either - it certainly helped make him famous, but TV is just another medium on which to show the world your talents, much like radio before it, and the internet since.
The reason there is such a fuss over his death is because his music resonated with people across the world in a way that very few artists have ever managed to do.

I'd say that the people who make real differences to humanity don't have the same emotional, era-defining effect on people that music can have, and it's unfortunately just the nature of their work that leads them to not gaining the same public recognition (and possibly appreciation).

[DeludedGuy]

what better time to come out with the story though.. money grabbers are like comedians.. all about one word..












timing.

She was due to be interviewed before he died, as he was about to start his massive comeback concert, so its not really "timing" as you are trying to put it, she was going to let some stuff out the closet whether he died or not.

Lets not forget how newspapers work, even if the nanny wanted to run her story 4 months ago, the papers wouldn't have done it, simply becuase they would rather wait for the perfect oputunity to sell more papers.

If I was running a newspaper and I had a big MJ story, I would certainly hold on to it and release it only when there is huge media attention on him.

[Zak33]

except for the midlde section of this thread that 0iD spent ages moderating...it's a good thread.

I too feel no remorse for MJ dying. Dunno why....I liked his music.

But I miss Kurt Cobain about a trillion times more.. and always will.
That was a sad sad day.

Bonn Scott too.

I know neither were as popular but it didn't make them less talented, nor less miserable with their fates.

MJ is dead, we can expect a TV and radio and magazine shedload of "memories" for weeks to come, but he wasn't exactly Princess Diana was he?