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About LinkBacksJust watching this now. lollage at nick griffin they have him backed into corner on every question.
Just watching this now. lollage at nick griffin they have him backed into corner on every question.
Beginners guide to raid Beginners guide to raid post edition Hexus.Social - FAQOriginally Posted by Jay
Watching it now, is rather good, but as much as i hate Nick Griffin and everything he stands for - fair play to him for agreeing to do it.
Me and my friends are playing a game called "Don't Mention the War":
Every time the word/phrase "second world war", "nazi", "racism" are mentioned, you have a drink.
Every time "hitler/adolf" "genocide" or "holocaust" is mentioned, you take two drinks.
Let's just say we'd finished the first pint within 5 minutes.
All well and good he's being slated, but the public seem to be fixated with Godwin's Law.
Griffin is getting slaughtered at almost every opportunity. And that guy who said 'dick'
Someone shouted "rubbishrubbishrubbishrubbish".
You owe it to yourself to click here really.
Only time I actually wanted to watch Question Time. Although some of his views are very extreme you got to give it to the guy for going on the show knowing full well vertuallly everyting is going to be thrown at him. He must have to keep low suprised someones not clocked him one yet.
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Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot.
Error exists between Keyboard & Chair replace User and press Any Key!
.... Where's the Any Key???
Pretty lame to be honest. It was nothing more than an attack on him (naturally) and gave us nothing. As mentioned, thumbs up for him for going on, he knew what he was going to get and i have respect for that. He mite be a Nazi/Fascist or whatever but i can't myself deny some of his ideas, toned down or not ( i don't know) are appealing.
Kalniel: "Nice review Tarinder - would it be possible to get a picture of the case when the components are installed (with the side off obviously)?"
CAT-THE-FIFTH: "The Antec 300 is a case which has an understated and clean appearance which many people like. Not everyone is into e-peen looking computers which look like a cross between the imagination of a hyperactive 10 year old and a Frog."
TKPeters: "Off to AVForum better Deal - £20+Vat for Free Shipping @ Scan"
for all intents it seems to be the same card minus some gays name on it and a shielded cover ? with OEM added to it - GoNz0.
Well I know were you coming from discussions like this can go on forever, eg the discussion on imigration Jack Straw made me laugh it is a sore subject and has to be handled with care but if I am honest the only way to handle it now as for many years it has been out of hand is to be extreme and close the doors, let the country settle and for us to get a picture on were we stand with imigration. In the mean time work out a system that works and start a fresh for when the floodgates are opened, well thats my opinion I sure Ill be corrected.
__________________
Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot.
Error exists between Keyboard & Chair replace User and press Any Key!
.... Where's the Any Key???
I absolutely detest the BNP and disagree with them in every possible way, and I did watch the programme, but I'm not sure what to make of it.
He (Griffin) did look very very uncomfortable at times, and did his best to wriggle out of some things that he couldnt really, but it wasnt exactly a balanced debate. The audience and all of the panel including the presenter were very hostile towards him (understandably) but that didnt make for very interesting viewing.
In terms of immigration as an economist I'm really split. I think we need young immigrants because as the baby boomers retire we need a young workforce to fund them, "native" birth rates are very low. However there is an argument that immigration crowds out growth. I'm studying growth theory at the moment, but its fairly common sense that if your population grows by 1% and your economy grows by 1%, no one is better off in per capita terms.
On other issues I could not be further away from the BNP. Although I'm an English (and British) patriot, and cherish our countries oddities and traditions - I'm actually in favour of the EU and of further European Integration (I recognise that I'm probably not in the majority on that one though)
In terms of racial issues I find the BNP just plain abhorent. My paternal grandfather was very old Scots/Celtic stock (native british? if there is such a thing), my maternal grandfather was very old English stock. My two grandmothers were a (British born) Jew, and an Armenian respectively (persecuted much?!) - so you might say I'm multicultural. My (half jewish) dad remarried a Kenyan born Indian Muslim (very moderate) I put White/British on ethnicity forms, but I still identify with the many groups that make up my racial heritage and think I'm much stronger for that.
The BNP have catered to the white working class there is no doubt about that - I would describe myself as liberal middle class so perhaps I will never understand why people vote for them. I grew up in a prosperous part of south england that was overwhelmingly white, but the asian, chinese and black people that were members of the community were welcomed and appreciated. Watching panorama last week (Racism on a Bristol Council Estate) made me feel physically sick, and while I appreciate Islam has its problems with extremism, every muslim I have ever met has been as hostile to terrorism as I am.
Anyway, needed to rant and HeXus seemed as good a place as any to do it
Last edited by Champman99; 23-10-2009 at 02:28 AM.
Anyone who thinks that the audience on Question Time was representative of the current attitude in Britain should watch the aforementioned Panorama program on racial hatred. It's a real eye opener and in many cases fist-clenchingly maddening. What really amazed me was that if they tried to pull off this kind of racism in some parts of Britain, they'd get their heads kicked in by gangs so fast they wouldn't be able to shout the N word.
The audience today were by and large, middle class West Londoners. They are educated, they know the score with Nick Griffin and although i personally think they acted rather childishly tonight with all the heckling (can we be more mature about it?), they're aware of why we don't need people like the BNP in power.
The fact of the matter remains, Mr Griffin was right when he said there are people who are uneasy about gay people kissing. It's a shame, but it's true - though i don't share his opinion on it. There are at least a million people - don't forget they got 6% of the vote - who share his view and there are lots of people, many of whom live on council estates (such as the one shown in the Panorama episode) who still have frankly Neanderthal views on anything that isn't white and straight.
As much as we'd like to think we're all better people for having a moan at Nick, there are lots of people who actively encourage the BNP and will gladly vote next time it comes around. We didn't learn anything in particular - save that the public are even less mature about free speech and fair debate than i expected.
I agree.
To be bluntly honest, I really don't think tonight changed anything. It was essentially a lot of middle-class-Guardian-reading-West-Londoners shouting at the bad racist man for being so racist and bad.
The fact is that the sort of skin-headed racist scum that supports the BNP doesn't watch Question Time, and won't care that Nick Griffin came across as a racist homophobic idiot on TV because they don't believe there's anything wrong with being a racist homophobic idiot. No one is on the fence about the BNP, no one is going to suddenly stop after tonight and say "wait, you mean the BNP are RACIST?!!"
I mean, it was entertaining as hell - but I really believe that Griffin's performance will have very little effect in the popularity of their party.
EDIT:
Also, Whiternoise, that comment was far too cogent for someone who has been playing drinking games!
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When have you ever seen such a ethnically diverse audience on question time? Never - obviously a setup. The fact remains that the BNP is an elected party and as such have a right to express their views as much as any other party do no matter if we like it or not. I strongly disapprove and disagree with what Labour have to say but i still have to listen to their drivel. If anything people should be storming the bbc when ever Labour are on for all the damage they have done to this country - instead we see Jack Straw smugly trying to take the moral high ground on there tonight - what a joke.
It sickens me that every time anything bad happens in this country it is either immigrant this or foreigner that instantly by certain sections of society!! How about the good things that immigrants have brought to this country over the last two centuries?? Plenty of immigrants have contributed via their hard work to the success of this country and why the heck does every one have to be tarred with the same brush just because some break the law or cause problems??
Many immigrants who came here in the 1960s and 1970s from commonwealth countries filled critical skill shortages that the UK had - why doesn't the BNP talk about this then?? Advertisements for jobs in the UK were often made in commonwealth countries(especially for jobs like teachers and doctors) and this was facilitated via organisations like the British Council.
The fact is that something like 90% of this country are white which represents over 50 million people!! Even if immigrants were more likely to cause issues(which is not necessarily the case) by sheer numbers it would be not them breaking the law or causing issues!!
Why don't people get this into their heads instead of blaming entire races for their issues and voting for luny parties!! People only have to look at the rise of the NSDAP in Germany to realise that many of the tricks parties like the BNP use are the same but just redressed with some PR and spin. If it isn't one section of society which is an enemy it will be someone else. This is the way such people work all over the world.
What about the large number of people from the UK who work abroad - what happens if those countries were to implement some of the policies the BNP have??
Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 23-10-2009 at 03:04 AM.
Respecting Nick Griffin for merely showing up?
Ahhh, isn't that his raison d'etre as a "politician" or is it just the first step on the slippery slope towards regarding the BNP as "mainstream"? Are we not setting the bar just a mite too low?
Well the National Socialist German Workers’ Party was democratically elected too, does that mean in a democracy we should or must tolerate the intolerant? Where do we draw the line?The fact remains that the BNP is an elected party and as such have a right to express their views as much as any other party do no matter if we like it or not.
In any given society it is not about one set of absolute values against another set of absolute values, but rather it is about achieving a viable compromise through the balancing of different, even conflicting values and priorities. A society fails when, for whatever reasons, it swings towards one extreme or another.
The question now is whether the BNP's current supposed popularity is merely a temporary adjustment or the beginning of a persistent and continuing swing towards one extreme.
The Nazis also gained "legitimacy", got elected and achieved political dominance during a recession and by taking advantage of the German people's sense of being under siege, just as many White British appear to feel today, irrespective of whether it's justified or not (I feel not).
Btw. I would love too see some investigative reporters go through Nick Griffin's trash, pick up some of his DNA and run a genome test to see what his REAL genetic ancestry is.
As regarding the recent study on UK's population growth, supposedly 3/4 of which would come from net migration, what many seem to have overlooked is that much of it is based on a "projection" of supposedly current trends. A lot can happen between now and that theoretical future scenario which may never arrive.
I was talking to someone about other programmes Grffin could appear on, and we decided an episode of "Who Do You Think You Are?" would be perfect...
I thought it was the modern day equivalent of a medieval show trial. Regardless of how abhorrent some of the policies of the BNP, it just reduced a decent program to a free-for all completely directed at one man.
The Key moment for me was when Straw was directly asked by a gentleman if the rise of the BNP was attributed to the immigration plicies of the Labour government - in his response Straw may as well have given his view on the Brazilian grand Prix - complete deflection of the question and the pivotal moment of the whole show, that Mr Straw is why the BNP have 2 MEPS and Nick Griffin is seated to your left.
Agent (23-10-2009)
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