Tired of Simon Cowells pet karaoke project stealing the christmas number one?

[Knoxville]

Again, all I'm reading is money. The great blues singers played their music because their soul demanded it and, oh, they produced beautiful music. Did they care how much they would make from their talent? Or did they just care that their music reached inside others often at difficult times?

Money makes the industry go round, you can't fight it unfortunately, and you can't talk about music without mentioning it, it's the nature of the beast. I play music because it makes me happy, not because it's a get rich quick scheme and that's true of most musicians in the rock/metal/punk/alternative genre, they'd still be playing in a bar somewhere if they weren't making money. Those blues singers you refer to from back in the day, people like Blind Old Tom Anderson and B.B King their music still made it on to records and into the hearts and minds of those around them despite the underground beginnings of the genre. These days, it wouldn't and doesn't happen, we hear only what certain people want to sell us, music that might have real merit, real soul, the chance to bring out real emotion in the listener is often passed by and ignored. Bob Dylan for example wouldn't have a career if he'd started playing his music in the mid eighties. He's a man who's talent is beyond question, who gave us beautiful music and a man who if thrown into the corporate music melting pot today would probably never be heard from. That's the important thing, that we let the great artists of our generation be heard and with the industry structured as it is that doesn't happen often if at all.

You can't buy that kind of talent because it isn't for sale.

I agree completely, but the music industry stopped being about talent a long long time ago and if the very entity that is tasked with distributing music to the masses no longer cares about talent but about money and sales then there's something very very wrong going on.

Hunter S Thompson just about summed up the industry to perfection some time ago -

"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free and good men dies like dogs. There's also a negative side."

[666moe666]

So happy for RATM.

Even happier about Joe not winning tbh.

[Susurs]

Isn't a tad corrupt to have a system where a member of the panel benefits so enormously from the votes he himself casts?

[kalniel]

Isn't a tad corrupt to have a system where a member of the panel benefits so enormously from the votes he himself casts?

All the more reason that the people who stand to gain the most are involved in the decisions. It's not devoid of investment on their behalf.

Bit like saying the 'dragons' on Dragons Dens shouldn't be in charge of where they invest their own money.

[directhex]

The statement against the business manipulation of music should have been made differently.

Sorry, wrong campaign. Perhaps that's why you've been confused. This was not a record label protest. It was a protest against the great British tradition of the Xmas #1 being murderized by a karaoke contest - by someone who has said in interviews how proud he is of doing so, and how he thinks he's done us all a favour.

Frankly, anything to reduce the background levels of toxic smug coming from Cowell's self-importance is a victory. And more than that, this whole thing has SERIOUSLY dented Cowell's position. He is no longer the music exec with guaranteed success, he's the guy who got beaten by Facebook. Even the sportscasters on the radio are getting the boot in, with comments on which football team is #1 "other than RATM".

Will Cowell make money? Yes. He's a record label exec, record labels are loan sharks, and the £1m owed to him by Joe will feel nice when he stuffs his pillows with it. But Cowell is no longer the golden boy, and for one thing, his fee for X-Factor rights will suddenly look a LOT less appealing to ITV, who have some bargaining power to pay him less money. So he WILL lose out in the long run.

Xmas #1 is a big symbolic thing in the UK. We've had some ****e, some niceness, and recently, karaoke. If nothing else, this should help show musicians with real actual talent that they CAN aim for the best-selling 1-week single of the year, and that X-Factor isn't some unstoppable behemoth.

The UK is laughing at Cowell right now. Which harms X-Factor, which helps music. What SME do in the background is, frankly, tangential.

[Nick Smith]

Sorry, wrong campaign. Perhaps that's why you've been confused. This was not a record label protest. It was a protest against the great British tradition of the Xmas #1 being murderized by a karaoke contest - by someone who has said in interviews how proud he is of doing so, and how he thinks he's done us all a favour.

Frankly, anything to reduce the background levels of toxic smug coming from Cowell's self-importance is a victory. And more than that, this whole thing has SERIOUSLY dented Cowell's position. He is no longer the music exec with guaranteed success, he's the guy who got beaten by Facebook. Even the sportscasters on the radio are getting the boot in, with comments on which football team is #1 "other than RATM".

Will Cowell make money? Yes. He's a record label exec, record labels are loan sharks, and the £1m owed to him by Joe will feel nice when he stuffs his pillows with it. But Cowell is no longer the golden boy, and for one thing, his fee for X-Factor rights will suddenly look a LOT less appealing to ITV, who have some bargaining power to pay him less money. So he WILL lose out in the long run.

Xmas #1 is a big symbolic thing in the UK. We've had some ****e, some niceness, and recently, karaoke. If nothing else, this should help show musicians with real actual talent that they CAN aim for the best-selling 1-week single of the year, and that X-Factor isn't some unstoppable behemoth.

The UK is laughing at Cowell right now. Which harms X-Factor, which helps music. What SME do in the background is, frankly, tangential.

Well said.

[santa claus]

To be honest, your the one that keeps mentioning the money.

Not at all, and this is understood by Knox in his follow up post. I'm simply saying that Rock God as a career choice is fraught with uncertainty and that because someone else beat you to the major spondoolicks, there's no need to give up the art form that means so much to you. Or is it less attractive if you take money out of the equation? Sorry, I mentioned money again .

Sorry, wrong campaign. Perhaps that's why you've been confused. This was not a record label protest. It was a protest against the great British tradition of the Xmas #1 being murderized by a karaoke contest - by someone who has said in interviews how proud he is of doing so, and how he thinks he's done us all a favour.

Frankly, anything to reduce the background levels of toxic smug coming from Cowell's self-importance is a victory. And more than that, this whole thing has SERIOUSLY dented Cowell's position. He is no longer the music exec with guaranteed success, he's the guy who got beaten by Facebook. Even the sportscasters on the radio are getting the boot in, with comments on which football team is #1 "other than RATM".

Will Cowell make money? Yes. He's a record label exec, record labels are loan sharks, and the £1m owed to him by Joe will feel nice when he stuffs his pillows with it. But Cowell is no longer the golden boy, and for one thing, his fee for X-Factor rights will suddenly look a LOT less appealing to ITV, who have some bargaining power to pay him less money. So he WILL lose out in the long run.

Xmas #1 is a big symbolic thing in the UK. We've had some ****e, some niceness, and recently, karaoke. If nothing else, this should help show musicians with real actual talent that they CAN aim for the best-selling 1-week single of the year, and that X-Factor isn't some unstoppable behemoth.

The UK is laughing at Cowell right now. Which harms X-Factor, which helps music. What SME do in the background is, frankly, tangential.

I'm not confused. I would say you've been mugged. I hope noone is jealous of SC .

[TooNice]

If nothing else, this should help show musicians with real actual talent that they CAN aim for the best-selling 1-week single of the year, and that X-Factor isn't some unstoppable behemoth.

Does it really though? It's probably not a poor assumption to say that there are more people buying RATM multiple times than the the X-Factor's entry. It's akin to voting multiple times in a poll. Sure everyone can do that, including those who bought Joe's entries. But AFAIK, there is no major RATM 'counter movement', so those who bought Joe's entry did it because they liked it, not to get it to no1 (i.e. no point in purchasing multiple copies). At very best, this stunt will show 'musicians with real talent' that to get a Christmas no1, they will need to have a Simon hating Internet movement behind them, possibly with some members of such group willing to buy their work multiple times. And it would be done not necessarily because those people love them/their work that much, but mainly because they hate Simon that much more and they were lucky to be picked.

[directhex]

those who bought Joe's entry did it because they liked it

50,000 pre-orders before the song, or singer, were announced.

"liked it" eh?

[TooNice]

...or not *shrug*. Still, the odds of multiple orders by the same individuals in those 50,000 are..? TBH, the symbolism of a Christmas no1 is a little lost to me, and I find the whole thing irrational. Granted, doing something for the LOLZ (what I viewed this movement as) need no rationality, but to say it's a win for 'musician with talent'? I just don't buy it.

[Susurs]

Thanks, kalniel. Point well made. The show was never intended to be an inscrutably fair contest.

[Biscuit]

some fantastic points made on this page. Well deserving of the thanks!

I just hope this whole facebook campaign has a lasting effect rather than just ben an erroneous year which everyoen laughs about.

[TAKTAK]

AFAIK, there is no major RATM 'counter movement', so those who bought Joe's entry did it because they liked it, not to get it to no1

When RATM actually moved ahead and looked a threat, ITV decided to run with http://xfactor.itv.com/2009/news/viewer/item_100319.htm (Although it did get a major thumbs down from the RATM guys )

One thing i find humourous is:

“Killing In The Name” narrowly beat Joe McElderry’s “The Climb” by a mere 50,000 sales.

A mere 50,000? Joe only got 450,000... So he got beaten by a ninth of his sales...

I still reckon if Xfactor had stuck to their guns and run with Journey - Don't stop believing, then the XFacter would have won by miles, possibly on par for the 700,000 of last years...

[Rave]

I bought a copy, even though I own the CD album already (I fished it out of a bin- true story). So yeah- sweet. I was nearly as pleased when I heard Joe at No2, as my wife was when Chris won Strictly (she shouted so loud that the cat nearly knocked my wine over).

TBH, my only objection is that Killing In The Name is only the fourth best track from the Rage Against The Machine album, after (in decreasing order of brilliance) Know Your Enemy, Bullet In The Head, and Township Rebellion. In fact I reckon it was only chosen for this campaign because of the multiple "**** you I won't do what you tell me"s at the end.

I personally would have preferred to hear:

Believing all the lies that they're telling you
Buying all the products that they're selling you
They say jump and you say how high
You're Brain Dead, you got a ****in' Bullet in your head!

But hey- I'll be at the free Rage concert next year if I possibly can. Well worth a 50p download.

[santa claus]

Believing all the lies that they're telling you
Buying all the products that they're selling you
They say jump and you say how high
You're Brain Dead, you got a ****in' Bullet in your head!

Gawd that sounds so passe. Was it written in the 1960's?

[Sumanji]

Resist boys, don't feed IT!!

Su