Possible New Rule for the FS area

Quote:

Originally Posted by Creature

can there be a rule that states you only sell working goods,
and if unsure the seller resums all Responsibility to either test it,
or offer a full refund if it dosnt work

I see no reason at all to prevent sales of "untested" items. Part of the reason is simple acknowledgement of the law when you are buying from a non-business. As Deckard said, the principe is "caveat emptor" - which basically means "let the buyer beware".

My old law lecturer (and she was a barrister) summed it up by saying "when buying a horse, walk round it and count the legs. Make sure there is one on each corner, because you'll have no comeback afterwards if there isn't." That advice might have been given 25 years ago, but it is as true now as it was then.

Your rights when buying privately are minimal. This applies to buying over the internet, from the classifieds in the local paper, a card in a newspagent or a bloke in the pub. The goods MUST match any decription of or claim for them that the seller made, but that is about it. If you buy an XP2000, and it turns out to be an XP1800 you would have a case for getting your money back (Misrepresentation) - though enforcing it to get your money back is another story.

BUT if I were to advertise an XP2000 and when it gets to you, it is an XP2000 but doesn't work, well, I never said it did. Legally, you have little you can do about it.

So, when you buy ANYTHING privately, you are taking a chance. It's down to the buyer to ask questions, and part of that is assessing the person you are buying from. Bear in mind it is YOU that takes the risk if your judgement isn't up to scratch.

This is partly why 2nd hand goods are cheaper than new ones. For many computer parts, a 2nd hand unit will perform just as well as, and last just as long as, a brand new one. Therefore, the reason it is often so much cheaper is that you DO take a risk, and you DON'T have much of a comeback if something goes wrong.

If something says "untested" then you are very definitely taking a chance, and I would assume that the price reflected that. It is down to the buyer to determine if he/she is prepared to take a chance for that amount of money. I, for instance, would not under any circumstances buy expensive items (like a laptop) from a private buyer, sight-unseen. I just won't do it - period. Why, because if it isn't as advertised or promised, I've got a fight on my hands getting my money back and, personally I won't take the risk. The result - I don't get many bargains but I don't get ripped off either. Other people will risk it - either for the chance of a real bargain (and there are some to be had) or because it's as much as they can afford and is the only chance they have of getting a specific item. Fair do's, BUT only if you are prepared to take the risk.

"For Sale/Trade" is designed to simply put members in touch with each other, and in a very pracitcal sense, there is little we can do to protect members from risk, which is why some of the rules say what they do. We only provide limits where :-

1) It is to avoid legal complications
2) It is keeping the trading within reasonable bounds of areas relevant to this forum (after all, bandwidth costs money, so there has to be a limit)
3) Experience has taught us that a rule is beneficial to protecting members

But with private sellers, in practice, you have very little protection anyway.

There are people that sell bits genuinely untested. I've done it myself. If I've been breaking a system I haven't used for a while, I'll sell the components as untested. Why? Because while it worked last time I used it I don't know if it works now - and it isn't worth my time and effort finding out.

So, I flog untested parts and the buyer gets them at a better price than they would if I had tested them. So far as I know, they work BUT once they leave here, so far as I'm concerned, that's it. If there's a problem, I don't want to hear about it and any buyers buy on that basis.

Next point - suppose we had a rule that said "any parts that don't work must be refunded?" Well, there are unscrupulous people out there who will seek to exploit any situation. I can see someone buying an XP2000, spotting one somewhere else a bit cheaper, buying that as well and sending the first one back as defective - or even deliberately damaging it and sending it back as defective - and expecting a refund.

Buying from private sellers is ALWAYS a risk and, in my view, little more so when it says "untested", but precluding people from selling "untested" items actually gives you very little more protection and DOES prevent people like me from genuinely selling untested gear.

Note: I have no personal vested interest in this rule. I have NEVER bought or sold anything via either HEUXUS (or, for that matter, OcUK) and have not even activated my Hexus rating.

However, that leads me onto the HEXUS rating.

The whole point behind the HEXUS rating is to give SOME degree of confidence in the legitimacy of the person you are dealing with. It's no guarantee, and can be abused, BUT if you are dealing with a regular long-standing HEXUS member you have SOME assurance they aren't going to try to rip you off. If you have, in addition, a depth of positive feedback from other people, it HELPS give you some reassurance in buying blind.

But, please remember, caveat emptor.

If you aren't prepared to risk being ripped off, do NOT buy sight-unseen. There are sharks in the water, and if you buy/sell enough, you WILL get done sooner or later. Most people round these parts are genuine and honest, but there ARE sharks out there.