a little help and/or advice please

Anyone know much about what to put in a letter to a company as a complaint about a product I'm not at all happy with? i.e. how to go about telling them in a way without resorting to 'your products are shoddy/cr*p/not worth spit etc. in my experience...'
even better anyone know much about mountain bikes?

well, I got a new mountain bike a while ago and the suspension forks that came with it are, perhaps, one of the best available in the world. saddly in only 2weeks from buying them they broke - they have a feature on them that allows you to turn off their compressability through a 'lock-out' system that makes them like normal ridgid forks. I had them sent back for repair....
now they are leaking oil and air (they use high pressure air as the spring rather than steel or titanium springs cause air is, well, firstly free and secondly loads lighter!) and I'm rightly peeved.

here's what I've written so far, don't worry too much about technicals just wondering if it seems reasonable:

On the 31st January 2004 I purchased a pair of Fox Racing Shox Float 80RLs as part of a complete bike, Specialized Stumpjumper Comp (2002 model) from Evans Cycles Ltd., London. I am an endurance athlete with the intention of competing at elite level cross-country racing, so you may understand my frustration at the problems occurring and having to cut my rides short because of them.

Within 2 weeks of the date of purchase (for one of which I was unable to use the bike) the fork’s ‘Compression Lock-out system’ had developed a fault and was returned to Mojo Suspension to be repaired on the 17th February 2004 (the forks [and bike] were returned to me on the 19th February: a fast repair time for which I was very grateful).

Over the following weeks I became aware of an appreciable loss in performance as the forks seemed to be progressively ‘softer’ in their action, with an increase in the ‘sag’ beyond the limits I had set the fork to at an earlier date. I took some advice from the shop from where I purchased the forks and used a certified ‘Shock-pump’ to adjust the internal pressure to my riding style. Over the course of just one ride I noticed a marked loss in performance and with a loss of pressure in the region of 10-15psi. The loss in pressure was not incurred through removal of the shock-pump – as can sometimes be the case – as I double-checked the pressure prior to riding in light of this possibility.

Further to this I have also noticed a leakage of oil around the ‘Bottom Nut’ on the air shock/air piston side of the fork (i.e. not the lock-out side), which, despite wiping away, still persists and to my knowledge should not be present.

Having been repaired once, due to a fault after only such limited use, and continuing to develop further problems I am deeply unsatisfied with their poor performance. I find it unacceptable that a pair of forks, as highly regarded as these, should develop these problems so soon after purchase and through such limited use. They do not live up to the high standards I expected of Fox Forx, and from personal experience of Fox Racing products. I would not consider for one moment that I could have used them beyond their normal capacity, given my riding interests, and being relatively light (70kg/155lbs) I doubt that the forks ever came under any excessive stress beyond their tolerance limits.

Having experienced such problems you can understand that I am hesitant as to whether anything short of replacement will resolve the matter. Despite this fact though, I do have complete confidence that an acceptable and more than satisfactory solution can be found through replacement or a thorough repair, enabling me to fully enjoy a pair of Float 80RLs as intended and also restoring my confidence in Fox Racing Shox.

Yours sincerely
moi...!

sound ok in terms of 'what's your game' and 'why should I put up with this?' type stuff?

Sounds good so far but if I were you I'd make it a bit meaner, and let them know your professional biking friends agree with you. They're more likely to sit up and take action if you do that.

Well written, seems like a very polite complaint to me, no sign of you getting pee'd off and emotional on them!

so what do you suggest I insert and where?
something like; I am extremely upset at having to continually return to the shop due to a fault and to have them send away further reduces my confidence in such a highly rated productas this is not is what is to be expected of a fork worth in the region of £500 (yes they really are that much guys! thats how good they're meant to be)

my riding partners, with identical forks, have experienced no such issues and haven't had to 're-fill' their forks with air for a considerable period of time - perhaps since they purchased them over a year ago - and with considerably extensive use have suffered no ill effects what so ever and recommended I alert you to my suffering.

..hmm..maybe suffering too strong?...

I cried and cried for days when I realised that there's something wrong. how could you let this happen? I hate you, I never want to talk to you again!...

...no wait thats what the ex said. perhaps a bit over the top..!

p.s. there's me being too damn polite again!

Your first mail gets the point accross and well. Always try softly softly first then you can always resort to "stronger" language when you get an unsatisfactory response. Dont get aggressive at all, the proper response to the mail you drafted is : Extremely sorry our standard dropped on this "one" case replacement is on its way. Otherwise get medieval on their asses.

Well for your first contact with them there is no need to get emotional.

Just state the facts as they have done and see what they say, if they brush you off, then you can get more 'passionate'.

What I would do is get a report from a tech at a bike shop to back up your claim. In fact, I am surprised the shop you got the bike from hasn't swapped out the fork already.

As to the forks, the air loss does sound like an out and out fault, the oil less so. A lot of MTB forks have a foam 'oil wiper' just under the seals proper, it's job is to keep the forks lightly lubed to prevent corrosion, which in turn can rag the proper seals.

bike shop being really annoying to be honest. they basically took the bike in over night when I first discovered the problem several weeks ago, said they'd pump the forks up to around 100psi (above their normal operating pressure) and see if any is lost over night. now, any idiot knows this is not the same as riding out on a trial where the forks are being actively compressed and extended, often rapidly in a very short space of time - as is their specificaltion and 'job description'. even so the next day I was told - nope, no problem, shut up and go away...i.e. problem not dealt with to my satisfaction. I go for a ride and air is lost. bunch of hairy *rses...

the oil coming out is not on any moving part but is coming out of the bottom of the fok's left leg - hence why i recon its not meant to, i'm fully aware that it might come out of the sliders as its meant to to ensure smooth action etc. but out of the bottom? surely not, as eventually I'd be left with no oil in the fork! [it would drip dry!]

Ah, ok oil is deffo not ment to come from their, unless its an upside down fork :P

TBH, it sounds like you don't have a fork problem, rather a shop problem.

Yes the forks are duff, but the real problem is the shop.

I no longer cycle, gave up after my back gave up.

But when I did I covered over 5k a year, towards the end 100 road miles, but never the less I wasn't easy on my gear, and broke most things, including frames. The local bike shop was great, I did spend thousands, but they cut 10% off for me, and alowed me to talk to the guys in the workshop about failing components.

I am not familiar with your particular forks - but it sounds like a seal or some seals in the fork has been damaged. Whilst the shaft of the fork should be lubricated, oil should not be dripping or seeping out of the bottom, nor should air be leaking.

To me just sounds like they need a thorough service, rip apart, re air re oil and re seal.

Thats a good letter though. Often if your polite as opposed to bitchy, things may go better for you.

Butuz

these are the ones I have:
http://www.mojo.co.uk/images/forxForxRL.gif

and this next picture gives a rough idea of general fork anaotmy - the oil is coming out as show on this picture where you can see a silver bottom nut near the dropouts... i.e. no moving parts
http://wheelandsprocket.com/site/ima...ict_fork_s.gif

sorry, best pics i could find...

cheers for help guys - I'm off to bike shop now to get arsey with them...and I'll send the letter separately so that if the letter arrives and not the forks then have a def. problem. I actually am not a fan of the bike shop chain, just got the bike cause it was £300+ cheaper and 'better' than the current model...I much prefer small, one-man bike shops. was in exmoor last week - went into a really tiny bike shop in Minehead called Ponty's and the guy was great, so nice and did what he could to help, even showed me where good places to ride are. these big shops seem more after your money than your custom and well-being etc...

Yes - oil should definatly not be seeping out of the bottom silver nut (thats probably the damping adjustor nut?).

Good luck with it!

Butuz

sound like they had the forks apart and overtightened the bolt holding the outer leg onto the inner.... I know, I did that with mine and threaded the leg. Had to get a new fork :(that would naturally make a poor seal if the thread wasn't holding tightly enough. Maybe they didn't tighten it enough which is why it's leaking and losing air, or forgot to put an O-ring back in.... in either case - it's not worth voiding the warranty on em by stripping them apart with service manual in tow when they're so new. Letter looks good - get a new set of forks off em..... you have kept any receipts for repair work haven't you? cos if the bike shop threaded em, and you try to get em replaced, then Fox could say it's been mangled through user error and they won't replace them. They might be more lenient if you can prove it's the numbnuts "techie" who did the work on em...

Also in the letter state exactly what you want to be done about it i.e. a full refund, a replacement...

you think I should put replacement?
I have since edited the letter down a bit - short and sweet etc - cause a longer letter is less likely to get read right through...and I've added that I request a replacement rather than repair but maybe might need better wording...thoughts?

anyway here's revised edition:

I am writing this letter to inform you of the problems I have been experiencing with a pair of Fox Forks that are being sent to you under warranty for inspection/repair/replacement care of Evans Cycles, 77-81 The Cut, London, SE1 8LL on the 20th April 2004.

On the 31st January 2004 I purchased a pair of Fox Racing Shox Float 80RLs (serial no. 0005001) as part of a complete bike, Specialized Stumpjumper Comp (2002 model) from Evans Cycles Ltd., London. As an athlete with the intention of competing at elite level you may fully appreciate my frustration at the problems occurring. The forks have already been returned to repair a faulty lock-out system which occurred within two weeks of purchase (sent to Mojo on 17th February) and two most notable problems have developed since then.

They lose air unacceptably quick with use – the sag increases alarmingly over the course of just one ride, measuring a loss of 10-15psi. The loss in pressure was not incurred through removal of the shock-pump – as can sometimes be the case – as I double-checked the pressure prior to riding in light of this possibility.

I am also greatly concerned at the amount of oil that is being lost from a leak at the bottom of the air side of the fork (i.e. not the lock-out side) noticing an oily residue on my garage floor. The presence of oil at the base of the fork leg, despite wiping away, still persists and to my knowledge should not be present as if this continues there will be no oil left in the fork!

The forks have not been abused and weighing only 155lbs/70kgs I doubt I placed much stress on the forks. I'd be very grateful if you could rectify the problem as soon as possible especially given that they have already been returned to you once to rectify a non-functioning lock-out system. Having experienced continual problems you can understand that I am uncertain that anything short of replacing the forks will resolve the matter, as is my wish at present. Despite this fact though, I know that Fox has an excellent reputation and I have complete confidence that an acceptable and more than satisfactory solution can be found and I'm looking forward to being able to enjoy a fully functioning pair of Float 80RLs to the full in the near future. Please do not hesitate to contact me on the number(s) provided should you require further details or information of problems experienced.

Yours sincerely, so on and so forth...[Put it in your pipe and smoke it...]


p.s. all done on nicely letter headed paper too :) looks good.

are the O-rings cracked mate? i'd contact MBUK mate, they should know how to sort it out.
peace

p.s. did you go to the bike show?

nope didn't get to go. way up north...well, a long way away from where I was anyway. maybe next time...

it'd take me 30mins to get there on public transport, but i was skint.

oh well, Ill see what happened in a bike mag I guess. not too bothered really.