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Thread: Headhunted for new job, but it's contracting...

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    Squeeler Vini's Avatar
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    Headhunted for new job, but it's contracting...

    I've been in a great role for the past 5 years.

    There's 3 of us; one is 100% DBA, one is supposed to be 70%/30% DBA/Support, and then theres me - 1st/2nd/3rd line dogs body...

    We look after 300 users, across multiple sites across the globe. It's great, the problem is I don't really get on with my colleague, so I had considered looking around/testing the water.

    Then out of the blue, I receive a phone call asking me to an interview. The problem is, the role is a step back, 1st line, so sat at a phone doing desktop support. So there's the old SLA's, Call Numbers to meet etc... But its for BT, so you'd expect some career progression?

    Biggest issue for me, is that it's a 3 month rolling contract (in 3 month blocks), with a view to go permanent if the recruiting freeze at BT free's up. So job security, something which I could do with right now with Weddings/Houses on the horizon, is not exactly a given here.

    The money, well its 7k (!) more than I'm on. But for me, the money is not everything. What I want more than anything right now is to be happy at work. I'm not sure the BT position would offer me happiness, but having worked in 1st line before, it was quite fun. Working with people of my age, in a job I could do in my sleep/hungover. The money on offer means I'd be silly not to consider it.

    But inside, I'm just not sure. Now I know, I'll probably be advised to do what my heart says. But what would you do?

    How would you use this for leverage in your current position?

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    Senior Moment blueball's Avatar
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    Re: Headhunted for new job, but it's contracting...

    With weddings/Houses on the horizon I think you need the security more than a 3 month contract. Just stick it out for a while where you are. The recession isnt over yet but when things do proerly pick up you will probably find a better position.
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    Pork & Beans Powerup Phage's Avatar
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    Re: Headhunted for new job, but it's contracting...

    In this climate...you need the security. Also if it seems to be too good to be true...
    There's no guarantee of advancement on a 90 day contract.
    I would also advise against using this to blackmail your current employer. It wouldn't pay off at all. If you're thinking of leaving, take this as a compliment and nothing more. Start looking by all means, if you get an interview, mention that you have been offered a role at BT, but you wanted to work for them, because they're so wonderful. Should work a treat.
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    I R Toff Pandi! TAKTAK's Avatar
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    Re: Headhunted for new job, but it's contracting...

    I'd say do the interview, get the offer and then lay your cards out on the table with your current employer saying that you want a pay rise or you're moving elsewhere..

    Is the 90 day non-negotiable?

    But TBH at the end of the day Happiness > Money... And Security may = Happiness...
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    Banhammer in peace PeterB kalniel's Avatar
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    Re: Headhunted for new job, but it's contracting...

    Ack, 3 months is tight. Any kind of unemployment benefit from them if they don't renew?

    Job enjoyment is hugely important though, given how much time we spend working. Ask them to call you back when the recruitment freeze ends or they can offer a longer term?

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    Re: Headhunted for new job, but it's contracting...

    I'd say no, don't do this, I know several BT contractors, some of which were very highly placed, who all got told "sorry your contracts up, bye bye"

    You've got zero job security, no holiday pay or sickness pay and in this day and age, it's just not worth the risk.

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    Re: Headhunted for new job, but it's contracting...

    If you've been offered that position, then it proves there's work out there for you - that's a very good sign. That's where I suspect it's best to leave it though... the last thing you want is to be unemployed in 3 months' time because that extra money won't compensate for the lack of earning.

    The salary increase is great, I agree, but it's effectively a contract fee. The only reason they're paying you more is because they then get the right not to give you sick pay or holiday pay, and can sack you at the drop of a hat. For them, it's value for money. For you, not necessarily.

    I would wait until a better opportunity comes along... if you're unhappy at work now and want to be better off, you need to wait for the right position to come up, or you'll just go somewhere you aren't sure about and be unhappy again - for whatever reason.

    If you do turn down the offer, I would make sure to explain why - if you think it's a good option, apart from the 3 month issue, then tell them that you'd be delighted to move there but you can't afford to take the risk of a 3 month position. At least then they may well keep you on their radar in case any longer term positions become available in the future.

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    Sexiest Hexus user? quite possibly Russ's Avatar
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    Re: Headhunted for new job, but it's contracting...

    go for it, can only regret things you haven't done.

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    Re: Headhunted for new job, but it's contracting...

    Having the wounds of 3 rounds of contracting with BT.

    Dont bother with these jokers and get a job with a company in the private sector, BT is a shytehole.

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    Re: Headhunted for new job, but it's contracting...

    Just to add 7k extra for rolling 3 months contracts is NOT worth the effort.

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    mush-mushroom b0redom's Avatar
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    Re: Headhunted for new job, but it's contracting...

    Contracting does not give you a salary. It's a completely different setup, and will require you to either operate through an umberella company or set up your own Ltd company.

    Both of these avenues will cost you money from your 'gross' (although you can start to recoup them back through travel expenses etc).

    You will also require public liability insurance, indemnity insurance, (probably) IR35 contract reviews have (if you go Ltd) accountancy fees. You get no holiday (well you can take time off, but you don't get paid), get no benefits (no pay for sick leave, no pension, no gym, etc). As a contractor they can also can you with no notice at all.

    The potential upside to all this is that the rates for contractors are generally higher as the company does not have to worry about employers NI contributions, PAYE etc etc (guess who is liable for this).

    I'm not necessarily saying don't do it. I've been doing it for around 5 years, and am much happier working for myself. I am saying don't just look at it as a £7k payrise. It isn't.

    If you think estate agents are dodgy, you should try dealing with recruitment agents. Take everything (especially with regards to extensions) with a very hefty pinch of salt.

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    Senior Member oolon's Avatar
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    Re: Headhunted for new job, but it's contracting...

    Have do done your figures right, 7k more for a contact might not be as good as it sounds, Contacts pay a "company" that amount of money to get it to you so companies screw you over if your not VAT registered as well (for 17.5%!!), you need to pay, employers NI, your NI and then tax, to get your take home pay, also you will lose employers pension contributions. In return they have a right to get rid of you without any notice. Clearly it depends what your being paid, but 7K more on a 30k job is not a deal I would take, 7k more on a10k is one I would accept.
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    mush-mushroom b0redom's Avatar
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    Re: Headhunted for new job, but it's contracting...

    Quote Originally Posted by oolon View Post
    Have do done your figures right, 7k more for a contact might not be as good as it sounds, Contacts pay a "company" that amount of money to get it to you so companies screw you over if your not VAT registered as well (for 17.5%!!
    Not strictly true. Let's take the example of £30k for example.

    Let's assume that you say there's 250 working days in a year. Knock off weekends, public holidays, a bit out for sickness and holiday.

    £30000/250 = £120 / day.

    Your own Ltd company (or the umberella) will charge BT £120 / day. If your Ltd company (or the umberella) has registered for VAT, you will actually charge BT

    £120*1.175= £141 / day

    Your company (or the umberella) pay the VAT man the VAT on the balance (£21). BT then claim back the VAT from the taxman.

    It's a bit more complicated than that, but that's the gist.
    Last edited by b0redom; 09-03-2010 at 12:29 PM.

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    Senior Member oolon's Avatar
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    Re: Headhunted for new job, but it's contracting...

    Actually NO not necessarily true, T-Mobile paid me 10k for a job, if I was vat registered they pay me 10 K if I was not vat registered they will only pay 8500 and with hold the VAT. I thought that was not right either... Fortunately I did use an umbrella, and so got the full money.

    All I was saying is WATCH IT! some companies pull a fast one with VAT.
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    mush-mushroom b0redom's Avatar
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    Re: Headhunted for new job, but it's contracting...

    Interesting. In all the contracts I've worked on, and indeed all of the ones my suppliers use to quote, the numbers are all exclusive of VAT. @Vini, that's certainly something you should clarify.

    Everyone in business is wary concerning the VAT man. As they are part of customs and excise, they have more powers than the police.

    Returning to the point in hand, if you want to use it as a tool to beat the current employer with, just tell them you've been offered a job at £7k more, and although you'd love to stay, you need to at least seriously consider the other offer. Is there anything they can do to incentivise you to stay.....

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    The late but legendary peterb - Onward and Upward peterb's Avatar
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    Re: Headhunted for new job, but it's contracting...

    If it is genuine contracting, then as other have said, you will either need to be self employed in which case BT will employ you on that basis (you are responsible for your own tax on the money you withdraw from the business, NI etc) and you will almost certainly need to be VAT registered (You will charge VAT on your invoices, which BT can claim back). However as self employed, your business can take on other work, in addition to working for BT.

    Otherwise you will need to set up a limited company, where you will be a director and an employee of the company. The company will almost certainly need to be VAT registered, and you will need to set up a payroll system as you will be part of your company's PAYE scheme. Not onerous, but is a task you cannot ignore.

    In addition, your profits (turnover less expenses) will be subject to corporation tax currently at 21%. Your salary will be an expense (so your company won't pay corporation tax on that) but of course you will pay income tax. However your company is free to take on other work (if your time permits) as additional revenue streams.

    However BT may be offering short term employment contracts, in which case you would be a BT employee but only for three months at a time. You need to investigate exactly what is on offer very carefully.

    If you are required to work on either a self employed basis or via your own limited company, you need to consider the implications very carefully, and you may want to consider professional advice. It can be rewarding, but you are only as secure as your current contract(s).

    However there is lots of good information on the web, from Companies House (for setting up limited companies or partnerships) and the HMRC website on all aspects of taxation, and PAYE. Other websites (often run buy accountancy firms) can be a useful source, but remember they have a vested interest, so treat the advice accordingly.
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