Page 1 of 7 1234 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 16 of 105

Thread: The BA strikes and unions

  1. #1
    Seething Cauldron of Hatred TheAnimus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    17,164
    Thanks
    803
    Thanked
    2,152 times in 1,408 posts

    The BA strikes and unions

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8578568.stm

    So the strike is still on going, to me this is quite bizarre, but perhaps someone can explain it to me.

    If I was a BA worker, I would be happy with my above industry average wage especially when compared to other UK carriers.

    I would also be worried about the long term financial state of the company given the troubles of late.

    Also I wouldn't be squandering money on union dues, when legal insurance can be had for £5 per annum.

    So I would be powerless to stop the union destroying the company.

    Why do I think they are destroying them? I've flown 12 times year to date, and only a 3rd of the time on business. I've got more coming up, and BA is on my no fly list, no way I'm putting myself at risk.

    I'm sure I'm not alone, you'd have to be a complete numpty or have no choice to book BA at the moment, most insurances have clauses saying that you should have known the industrial action was likely (fair enough, you should) and will not refund.

    I don't think there are any people who are going all "yey for unionisation in the 21st century" and flying BA rather than virgin!

    So what can a worker who has an ounce of logical reasoning do, nothing that are at the mercy. This is what I really don't like, the ones who want the status quo, are powerless to stop it been attacked.

    Also I just can't think how someone thinks unions are needed in this day and age, there are no mill towns owned by one person, there is no oppression that needs to be fort against.
    throw new ArgumentException (String, String, Exception)

  2. #2
    Gentoo Ricer
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Galway
    Posts
    11,048
    Thanks
    1,016
    Thanked
    944 times in 704 posts
    • aidanjt's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus Strix Z370-G
      • CPU:
      • Intel i7-8700K
      • Memory:
      • 2x8GB Corsiar LPX 3000C15
      • Storage:
      • 500GB Samsung 960 EVO
      • Graphics card(s):
      • EVGA GTX 970 SC ACX 2.0
      • PSU:
      • EVGA G3 750W
      • Case:
      • Fractal Design Define C Mini
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10 Pro
      • Monitor(s):
      • Asus MG279Q
      • Internet:
      • 240mbps Virgin Cable

    Re: The BA strikes and unions

    Neither party is without fault. BA management and the unions both invite strike action. Both care more about squeezing out a few more bob than they do about their employees/clients and customers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Agent View Post
    ...every time Creative bring out a new card range their advertising makes it sound like they have discovered a way to insert a thousand Chuck Norris super dwarfs in your ears...

  3. #3
    jim
    jim is offline
    HEXUS.clueless jim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Location: Location:
    Posts
    11,435
    Thanks
    612
    Thanked
    1,639 times in 1,304 posts
    • jim's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus Maximus IV Gene-Z
      • CPU:
      • i5 2500K @ 4.5GHz
      • Memory:
      • 8GB Corsair Vengeance LP
      • Storage:
      • 1TB Sandisk SSD
      • Graphics card(s):
      • ASUS GTX 970
      • PSU:
      • Corsair AX650
      • Case:
      • Silverstone Fortress FT03
      • Operating System:
      • 8.1 Pro
      • Monitor(s):
      • Dell S2716DG
      • Internet:
      • 10 Mbps ADSL

    Re: The BA strikes and unions

    BA cabin crew have always had it good to be honest - good wages, large numbers of staff on each plane, and big expenses packages so they can live like kings when they reach their destination.

    Fact is that because they've been used to so much for so long, that as soon as BA have suggested cutting back, they've all been horrified. I think the main issue originally was that BA wanted to cut the staffing level from 15 to 14 per flight, which would still be far more than any other competing airline, so that's what I'm talking about. It's not a case of them being "badly treated", it's that they've been treated so well for so long, that they felt almost untouchable. When the inevitable cutbacks moved onto them, they were incredulous... there have been cutbacks right across BA for years under Willie Walsh, in just about every area conceivable - but until now, not the cabin crew.

    It's quite plain to everybody else that they need to move into the real world and appreciate that BA isn't going to be sustainable as a firm unless they cut costs right across the board, but they're desperate to hold onto the past that doesn't exist. They'll lose eventually, I don't doubt it for a second - the question is whether they give in or play a part into running the company into the ground and then lose their jobs as a result. I very much doubt a government bail-out would be in order for BA.

  4. #4
    Mostly Me Lucio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Tring
    Posts
    5,163
    Thanks
    443
    Thanked
    448 times in 351 posts
    • Lucio's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Gigabyte GA-970A-UD3P
      • CPU:
      • AMD FX-6350 with Cooler Master Seldon 240
      • Memory:
      • 2x4GB Corsair DDR3 Vengeance
      • Storage:
      • 128GB Toshiba, 2.5" SSD, 1TB WD Blue WD10EZEX, 500GB Seagate Baracuda 7200.11
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Sapphire R9 270X 4GB
      • PSU:
      • 600W Silverstone Strider SST-ST60F
      • Case:
      • Cooler Master HAF XB
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 8.1 64Bit
      • Monitor(s):
      • Samsung 2032BW, 1680 x 1050
      • Internet:
      • 16Mb Plusnet

    Re: The BA strikes and unions

    It comes down to this, people are resistant to change, from inside the system changes look to be big and scary. We're on the outside and going "oh come on, it can't be that bad" and maybe it isn't, but for the people on the inside it is.

    Also don't forget that the arguement "BA staff have it easier than other cabin crew" doesn't mean their job is easy. It's like pain, you're in pain with a blister on your foot, it hurts a lot, someone saying to you that childbirth is a lot more painful doesn't make your pain any less, it's just less in comparision.

    I personally don't agree with the strikes, simply because I can see the harm they're doing the company, but I'm a lot less certain about who is actually right in the whole debate.

    (\___/) (\___/) (\___/) (\___/) (\___/) (\___/) (\___/)
    (='.'=) (='.'=) (='.'=) (='.'=) (='.'=) (='.'=) (='.'=)
    (")_(") (")_(") (")_(") (")_(") (")_(") (")_(") (")_(")


    This is bunny and friends. He is fed up waiting for everyone to help him out, and decided to help himself instead!

  5. #5
    Large Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    3,720
    Thanks
    47
    Thanked
    99 times in 64 posts

    Re: The BA strikes and unions

    At least they pay tax when they are actually working.
    To err is human. To really foul things up ... you need a computer.

  6. #6
    ho! ho! ho! mofo santa claus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    2,898
    Thanks
    386
    Thanked
    446 times in 304 posts

    Re: The BA strikes and unions

    Willie Walsh is a bully. It's always a pleasure to see a bully whose God is money getting all wound up because he can't make people do what he wants them to do. If the Company goes down the Swanee it will be due to a poor management buoyed by the misconception that these days you can walk all over people and get away with it.

    It doesn't work like that Willie

  7. #7
    handscombmp
    Guest

    Re: The BA strikes and unions

    My thign that unions seem to have over looked is that these strikes are killing the company.

    One it's money they are losing as the planes aren't flying
    and two (as it's been mentioned before) you'd have to be an idiot to book with BA. The country repuation is beeing killed here.
    I know i wouldn't book with BA just becuase i don't know when the next strike is (and i get cheap flights through work).

  8. #8
    Gentoo Ricer
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Galway
    Posts
    11,048
    Thanks
    1,016
    Thanked
    944 times in 704 posts
    • aidanjt's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus Strix Z370-G
      • CPU:
      • Intel i7-8700K
      • Memory:
      • 2x8GB Corsiar LPX 3000C15
      • Storage:
      • 500GB Samsung 960 EVO
      • Graphics card(s):
      • EVGA GTX 970 SC ACX 2.0
      • PSU:
      • EVGA G3 750W
      • Case:
      • Fractal Design Define C Mini
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10 Pro
      • Monitor(s):
      • Asus MG279Q
      • Internet:
      • 240mbps Virgin Cable

    Re: The BA strikes and unions

    Quote Originally Posted by handscombmp View Post
    My thign that unions seem to have over looked is that these strikes are killing the company.
    So is incompetent management. It takes two to tango. I could personally run BA better than its entire upper-management staff combined.
    Quote Originally Posted by Agent View Post
    ...every time Creative bring out a new card range their advertising makes it sound like they have discovered a way to insert a thousand Chuck Norris super dwarfs in your ears...

  9. #9
    Senior Member Kata's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Den Haag
    Posts
    641
    Thanks
    27
    Thanked
    134 times in 61 posts
    • Kata's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus Rampage Formula
      • CPU:
      • Q9650
      • Memory:
      • 8GB Corsair Dominator DDR2
      • Storage:
      • RaptorX + 2.0TB NAS Raid5
      • Graphics card(s):
      • 2 x Sapphire Radeon 4870 1GB
      • PSU:
      • Tagan 900W
      • Case:
      • Thermaltake Armor LCS
      • Operating System:
      • Vista 64
      • Monitor(s):
      • 3 x Dell 2408WXP

    Re: The BA strikes and unions

    The Cabin Crew who are striking are behaving like idiots, and should get their heads into the real world. On a number of aviation forums I frequent, the decent hardworking section of the BA cabin crew are appalled at the actions of these idiots; BA Ts and Cs are far better than almost any other carrier, and will remain so under the new offer.

    I'd love to see them all summarily sacked and replaced with people who are actually willing to do the job. If the company goes down the swanee, it'll be because of a minority of greedy idiots (whose god seems to be money and perks...), who have dragged all the hardworking people in the company down with them. Unfortunately, people like santa seem to think that money grows on trees, and that no cutbacks are required in times like this - it doesn't work like that santa!

    Will you be pleased to see all the 1000s of people losing their jobs, santa, because of the actions of these people? Who do you think will be hurt worse if the company fails - Willie, or the ordinary employees. I think the answer is fairly obvious.

  10. #10
    ho! ho! ho! mofo santa claus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    2,898
    Thanks
    386
    Thanked
    446 times in 304 posts

    Re: The BA strikes and unions

    Quote Originally Posted by Kata View Post
    The Cabin Crew who are striking are behaving like idiots, and should get their heads into the real world. On a number of aviation forums I frequent, the decent hardworking section of the BA cabin crew are appalled at the actions of these idiots; BA Ts and Cs are far better than almost any other carrier, and will remain so under the new offer.

    I'd love to see them all summarily sacked and replaced with people who are actually willing to do the job. If the company goes down the swanee, it'll be because of a minority of greedy idiots (whose god seems to be money and perks...), who have dragged all the hardworking people in the company down with them. Unfortunately, people like santa seem to think that money grows on trees, and that no cutbacks are required in times like this - it doesn't work like that santa!

    Will you be pleased to see all the 1000s of people losing their jobs, santa, because of the actions of these people? Who do you think will be hurt worse if the company fails - Willie, or the ordinary employees. I think the answer is fairly obvious.
    1. They are not idiots, they are working people who deserve proper remuneration for their services;

    2. Yes, I'm sure you'd like to see them summarily sacked and replaced and that is the bully boy mentality of Willie who knows he can't get away with that sort of tactic; tough luck fellas;

    3. I don't think money grows on trees but it does appear to flourish in Willie's orchard;

    4. I will not be pleased to see anyone losing a job. If the Company falls, everybody will hurt including Willie. Sometimes, you have to stand by your principles.

    The World might seem all nicey-nice to those with a pocketful and that sort of person will argue until they're blue in the face to protect their wad. They don't want their cash accummulation affected by the great unwashed. Serfs ought to know their place.

    There's better prosperity to be had in sharing though.

  11. #11
    Seething Cauldron of Hatred TheAnimus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    17,164
    Thanks
    803
    Thanked
    2,152 times in 1,408 posts

    Re: The BA strikes and unions

    I am at a total loss with your attitude towards money, you seam to completely fail to grasp the idea that your paid what the market deems you are worth, what you can bring to the market.

    That is the idea of a free market, if you want to improve peoples lives the only way you can sustainably do so is obviously by improving their contribution to the market so they can earn more.

    You can just print more money, it just devalues itself. This is a VERY important concept.
    Quote Originally Posted by santa claus View Post
    1. They are not idiots, they are working people who deserve proper remuneration for their services;
    No they might be greedy (greed meaning wanting more than they have, greed is often justifiable....) but, they are not showing signs of been aware of the bigger picture, which makes them look like ideas. As for proper remuneration...... I can't understand how you think the best paid, and least worked, lack 'proper' remunerations....
    Quote Originally Posted by santa claus View Post
    2. Yes, I'm sure you'd like to see them summarily sacked and replaced and that is the bully boy mentality of Willie who knows he can't get away with that sort of tactic; tough luck fellas;
    Well he is not been a bully, its simple, the company is in the crapper, they made chronic mistakes at the high management level (lack of understanding their exposure to fuel prices, the terminal 5 issue) but plenty at the personal level, the cost of their cabin crew is just too high.
    Quote Originally Posted by santa claus View Post
    3. I don't think money grows on trees but it does appear to flourish in Willie's orchard;
    Actually it doesn't much at all, the market cap is rising a bit under the hope that it will be a more efficent company, other than that, the company is not in good shape, but in MUCH better before he came in, no matter how you cut it from a balance sheet point of view. (And a company can't employ people to make their children eat..... etc.)
    Quote Originally Posted by santa claus View Post
    4. I will not be pleased to see anyone losing a job. If the Company falls, everybody will hurt including Willie. Sometimes, you have to stand by your principles.
    A racist would say they are just standing by their principles. You have to be aware of the cost of your actions, tonight I've enjoyed some good food and drink, in afrian aids orphan months, we are probably tlaking about 20 years.
    Quote Originally Posted by santa claus View Post
    There's better prosperity to be had in sharing though.
    You see the problem is that people just aren't equal. Their contributions aren't the same, they need to be incentivised differently, my flatmate and I work very different hours, with different stress levels. It would take a lot more than just twice her pay to make me do my current job (it is honestly one of the more 'challenging' I've had).
    throw new ArgumentException (String, String, Exception)

  12. #12
    ho! ho! ho! mofo santa claus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    2,898
    Thanks
    386
    Thanked
    446 times in 304 posts

    Re: The BA strikes and unions

    Quote Originally Posted by TheAnimus View Post
    I am at a total loss with your attitude towards money, you seam to completely fail to grasp the idea that your paid what the market deems you are worth, what you can bring to the market.

    That is the idea of a free market, if you want to improve peoples lives the only way you can sustainably do so is obviously by improving their contribution to the market so they can earn more.

    You can just print more money, it just devalues itself. This is a VERY important concept.
    I dunno, whenever you explain all this financey stuff to me things just seem so much clearer and obvious.

    So, what we need are slaves eh? Whip 'em until they're compliant and as long as our boat keeps going forward we're happy? Uum, what'll we do if they all stop rowing? I know, we're the bosses, we'll stamp our feet until they do what they're told or we'll push 'em overboard. They should have improved their contributions coz now we are going nowhere...

  13. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    591
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked
    28 times in 26 posts

    Re: The BA strikes and unions

    Unions and Strikes, biggest jokes in the modern world to be honest, they can cripple a decent business overnight.

    Don't like the job? Then leave.

  14. #14
    Mostly Me Lucio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Tring
    Posts
    5,163
    Thanks
    443
    Thanked
    448 times in 351 posts
    • Lucio's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Gigabyte GA-970A-UD3P
      • CPU:
      • AMD FX-6350 with Cooler Master Seldon 240
      • Memory:
      • 2x4GB Corsair DDR3 Vengeance
      • Storage:
      • 128GB Toshiba, 2.5" SSD, 1TB WD Blue WD10EZEX, 500GB Seagate Baracuda 7200.11
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Sapphire R9 270X 4GB
      • PSU:
      • 600W Silverstone Strider SST-ST60F
      • Case:
      • Cooler Master HAF XB
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 8.1 64Bit
      • Monitor(s):
      • Samsung 2032BW, 1680 x 1050
      • Internet:
      • 16Mb Plusnet

    Re: The BA strikes and unions

    Quote Originally Posted by santa claus View Post
    I dunno, whenever you explain all this financey stuff to me things just seem so much clearer and obvious.

    So, what we need are slaves eh? Whip 'em until they're compliant and as long as our boat keeps going forward we're happy? Uum, what'll we do if they all stop rowing? I know, we're the bosses, we'll stamp our feet until they do what they're told or we'll push 'em overboard. They should have improved their contributions coz now we are going nowhere...
    Except that isn't what's happening in the slightest. Your analogy is completely off track, for starters, no one's "stopped rowing", they're arguing over how many rowers they'll have in future and whether they'll get a pay increase in the future.

    Secondly, no one at BA has said about sacking people, chances are the cuts in flight crew will probably come out as a reduction in people's overtime or not hiring new members of staff to replace natural wastage.

    (\___/) (\___/) (\___/) (\___/) (\___/) (\___/) (\___/)
    (='.'=) (='.'=) (='.'=) (='.'=) (='.'=) (='.'=) (='.'=)
    (")_(") (")_(") (")_(") (")_(") (")_(") (")_(") (")_(")


    This is bunny and friends. He is fed up waiting for everyone to help him out, and decided to help himself instead!

  15. #15
    Gentoo Ricer
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Galway
    Posts
    11,048
    Thanks
    1,016
    Thanked
    944 times in 704 posts
    • aidanjt's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus Strix Z370-G
      • CPU:
      • Intel i7-8700K
      • Memory:
      • 2x8GB Corsiar LPX 3000C15
      • Storage:
      • 500GB Samsung 960 EVO
      • Graphics card(s):
      • EVGA GTX 970 SC ACX 2.0
      • PSU:
      • EVGA G3 750W
      • Case:
      • Fractal Design Define C Mini
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10 Pro
      • Monitor(s):
      • Asus MG279Q
      • Internet:
      • 240mbps Virgin Cable

    Re: The BA strikes and unions

    Quote Originally Posted by SammEl View Post
    Unions and Strikes, biggest jokes in the modern world to be honest, they can cripple a decent business overnight.

    Don't like the job? Then leave.
    Upper Management, biggest joke in the modern world period, they can cripple a decent business in minutes.

    Too incompetent to do the job? Then resign.

    It works both ways.
    Quote Originally Posted by Agent View Post
    ...every time Creative bring out a new card range their advertising makes it sound like they have discovered a way to insert a thousand Chuck Norris super dwarfs in your ears...

  16. #16
    Spider pig, spider pig
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Cardiff
    Posts
    1,781
    Thanks
    18
    Thanked
    34 times in 20 posts

    Re: The BA strikes and unions

    I saw this in the Times and thought it summed things up quite nicely.

    Quote Originally Posted by Comment in the Times:
    Of course, they may think their action will bring BA to its knees and that, in the end, the government will step in with a wad of cash to sort things out. That’s what always happened in the Seventies. But that’s not likely to happen now, mainly because European Union rules forbid it. Unless you’re French.

    No. If the cabin crew win, the airline will go under and everyone will be out of a job. So, if they lose, they lose, and if they win, they still lose. Only, if they win, we all lose, because a nation with no national airline is like a nation with no national anthem. Even Ethiopia has one.

Page 1 of 7 1234 ... LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Damn postal strikes
    By darkghost in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 08-10-2009, 07:18 PM
  2. Tube Strikes
    By Tobeman in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 35
    Last Post: 04-09-2007, 11:25 PM
  3. Picket lines
    By 5lab in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 77
    Last Post: 05-03-2004, 07:13 PM
  4. If u vote ur a mupppet!
    By revol68 in forum Question Time
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 02-02-2004, 03:11 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •