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Another computer [52] 8%
2nd hard drive within my computer [124] 20%
External HDD/flash [178] 29%
NAS or other backup server [77] 12%
External storage stored off-site [17] 2%
Online/cloud backup service [27] 4%
Nothing! [121] 20%
So am I the only one that uses DVD-R's...?
Man, how may DVD-Rs would it take to back-up several TB of data...!
I intend to use blu-rays one day, not DVDs though.
For rough estimates on price/numbers, see my thread here
http://forums.hexus.net/hexus-hardwa...omparison.html
By the time BD is affordable, it will be too small for some. I feel that's always been the case with optical storage, and they are lagging behind HD more and more. Takes too long, requires too much user intervention (swapping dics) for both backing up and restoring.
You can already get BD-RW DL (50GB) disks for a very reasonable cost, and a BD writer isn't really that prohibitive if you store a lot of mission critical data. TCO is probably no higher than 72GB DAT, if you take into account the difference in cost between a tape drive and a BD-RW drive. It's a very appealing solution if you have relatively small regular backup requirements...
I'd like to implement a Tape drive backup solution when I get my new servers at work (just been approved a small budget for it) but the cost of pre-built solutions is just ridiculous, and I struggle to get approval for anything not built by Dell (so no sneaky building it myself, sadly... :( )
Most people dont have GBs of 'data'.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kata
They have a few GBs of actual data and 100s og GBs of 'piracy'.
Backup what you need to keep!
How much? I suppose that it would make sense for backup up to 50GB where you want to keep each backup separate from each other (rather than put say, 20 50GB images on a 1TB drive). But if takes more than 5-10 discs for a complete backup (several hundred GBs), I'd rather just stick to HD.
I have over 200GB of personal photos and HD Video alone... :( Anyone with a decent modern camera or video camera is likely to have the same!Quote:
Originally Posted by abaxas
A friend of mine came round one day years ago, near to tears.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kata
He had apparently been "doing s backup", onto 1.4MB floppies. He was near completion when he had a bit of an accident and knocked over the pile. The pile of unlabelled discs. A pile consisting of over 300 discs.
I took pity and told him about tape drives. ;)
Nonetheless, I still use DVDs, and DVD-RAM, as part of a backup strategy. I have data split into different types. Some changes rapidly, and for that, I use high capacity tape. Some rarely changes at all - like my photo collection. It grows, but what I have doesn't change that much. That category also includes research documents, downloaded from the net ..... like, and it's topical today, a number of years of Budget reports in PDF. That category, like the photos, grows but doesn't change. Unlike the photos, however, I can download again if I lose them, but the photos, if my backup system fails, I lose them permanently.
So I keep those budget type documents backed up on DVD, with a combination of a base backup and differentials. The photos, however, are on :-
1) a second hard disk in another machine
2) tape
3) optical disc, usually DVD-RAM or MO, for durability
4) a transient copy on DVD, in the base + differential method.
I'm of the opinion that no one solution fits all data types, or all users. I go to more lengths than most, but less, for example, than those keeping a backup data centre or even just mirrored servers.
The best solution depends on the user's needs, but DVDs can certainly form a part of some needs ..... and the whole of others.
That would fit nicely on an Ultrium 2 tape cartridge! (Cost about £20) (but don't look too hard at the cost of te drive and SCSI card to go with it)Quote:
Originally Posted by Kata
<looks at two SCSI tape drives and a SCSI card sitting in the PC graveyard box>Quote:
Originally Posted by peterb
I ran tape backups for years. One tape for each day of the week with 2 weeks of data at any one point.
Never ever had to call on it thankfully and I ditched it in favour of NAS backup (2 FreeNAS boxes) a few years ago.
Much easier to automate and for some odd reason I feel more comfortable with the data sitting on a HDD than I did when it was on a tape.
Whenever people mention some of the less 'mainstream' form of storage, I always think back to my SparQ drive. Not my wisest investment, and I am not referring to the failure mode (didn't encounter it), but rather the fact they they went under..
Who remembers Zip discs? :mrgreen:
One of my former employers ran overnight tape backups - it's a nice easy way to get potentially sensitive data into a safe for secure storage. All went well until the external caddy for the tape drive broke down. So I popped the drive into the tower server instead, and all went well until about May when the backups suddenly started crashing, and I eventually diagnosed an overheating problem. Then all went well until the server died horribly about 6 weeks later, and we were *very* relieved that I'd managed to sort out the back up issues... ;)
It's very true that not all backup solutions are appropriate for all situations, but tape drives are so flexible that it's hard to think of a situation in which a tape drive wouldn't be a sensible option to play at least some part in the backup strategy...
EDIT: @Kata - I still have a 3.5" ZIP drive kicking around in my box of bits. I'm tempted to start using it, if I can ever find enough ZIP disks to make it worthwhile ;)
Anyone ever thought of backing up onto SD cards? DVD capacity flash storage in an easy-to-store package...
Even I do... I only had a 600MB hard drive, and disk space used to be a real privilege for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kata
I remember looking dreamily at this computer magazine I had (only one, kept the same one for about 2-3 years) and just imagining all the programs I could install on a Zip drive, if I had one. And a Jaz drive - don't even get me started! I know it would've been impossible, but I had no idea at the time. When we were considering getting the internet I remember thinking that I could install stuff on my "30MB Free Webspace" as well :p
The problem is that a HDD is a mechanical evice - not so much a question of if it will fail, just a question of when! I store on a fileserver with a Raid 1 array, but that is backed up periodically to a tape. (And I only started doing that when I had a problem with the Raid Array - or more accurately, the Logical volums on the array, and thought that all was lost - fortunately it wasn't, but it was a lesson well learned)Quote:
Originally Posted by mycarsavw
Oh yes! (and the LS120 floppy disk)Quote:
Originally Posted by Kata
I don't know, outlay for the tape drive is the one hurdle most people are unlikely to pass.Quote:
Originally Posted by scaryjim
And the other caveat I'd add is lazy/forgetful IT staff. When I started at my current job, the guy I was replacing informed me that backup tapes were stored on top of the server because "it's a pain going back and forth", as I nodded.
For me a USB HDD and SyncToy from Microsoft do the trick, mirroring changes between my computer's key data folders and the USB HDD. One day I'll get Windows 7 setup at home which pretty much has SyncToy built in to it now with a nice new front end to it :)
The only potential downside I see to the above is dropping the USB HDD from a height and killing it, and by some wierd fluke my computer dies within the time it takes for Scan or eBuyer to deliver me a new one.
<hand up>Quote:
Originally Posted by Kata
No moving parts, tiny footprint...hmm. If only the packaged were easier to open and didn't require a blowtorch, I think you may be on to something there!Quote:
Originally Posted by scaryjim
Agreed. Both FreeNAS boxes are RAID 1 and one mirrors the other (a backup of a backup if you like). I also have an EHDD which is taken off site every evening.Quote:
Originally Posted by peterb
I guess there is nothing that is 100% failsafe.
I was going to mention the Iomega Jaz but you've managed to remind me of an even bigger DoDo :)Quote:
Originally Posted by peterb
I remember the pundits thinking it was going to be the holy grail for cheap and easy storage, it was quite fast though at the time, just had a shelf life of slightly longer than a fly.
I'd lol if it wasn't for the fact that I don't think I've actually swapped the 2 backup HDDs we use at work for about a month. :embarrassed: In my defence though, the server room is almost a mile from the office, so the "procedure" was always going to be something of an ideal rather than a reality...Quote:
Originally Posted by snootyjim
Not that cheap at the moment though, due to the cost of flash memory.Quote:
Originally Posted by scaryjim
I remember the ZIP drive. And LS120. I went with the SparQ because I found the former two too small, and the Jaz drive too expensive.
Also considered a certain proprietary CD-RW of sort, but I can't remember what it's called anymore :/ Ah, the PD drive. Who remember THAT?
Windows Home Server..
get cheap old PC... put disk in it...
install WHS and let it duplicate files..
use WHS to create regular back up's of entire PC...
if PC breaks, use WHS to re install OS to broke PC.. and if not want to do that, use WHS to open the backup up, and copy files from it...
and.. if you have 2 HDD or more.. and if WHS loses master disk... use WHS DVD to reinstall to new HDD and it finds all the files on the second hard drive... and they work....
I have done this.. it worked.
Something called Tomb Stones... WHS puts copy files onto second drive and then ignore them but remembers where they are with Tomb Stones... if master drive fails... when you reinstall to new drive.. it spots the tombstones.. and retrieves data.
I have 4 PC's and 1 WHS
WHS has one 160 gig drive.. and 1 750 drive.
I replicated a WHS disaster by taking out 160 OS drive (wich willl also have had some of the backups of my 4 PC's on)
I put in new drive.. totally blank... booted from WHS disk.. chose REPAIR... (it must spot the tombstons on other disk to know it was ever a WHS machine) and oncve it was done, and updated to latest.. I had all the backups..
And the magic is.. when you get close to running out of space.. put another drive in :)
it does it ALL for you...
I would also not use cheap DVDs for backup either.
Seriously? It does all that?Quote:
Originally Posted by Zak33
Dammit, I definitely need me some of that! Must look into minimum specs etc...
Presumably there's a version of full Windows Server that has similar functionality?
No, WHS is completely different. It's basically a specialised build of Server 2003 with various clever features added to it - the way it utilises disk space is the most obvious thing they've added, since it's such a dramatic change, but there's a heck of a lot of differences. Paul Thurrott did a few decent articles on it, worth reading those if you're interested.Quote:
Originally Posted by scaryjim
At the same time, it's not a proper server though - some features are removed. Active Directory for example is pretty much impossible - so there's a lot to check out when it comes to them.
WHS is indeed great, just surprised it does more than its bigger brother microsoft server OSes in the way of backup.