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Thread: Race relations & Immigration in the UK...What should we do?

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    Race relations & Immigration in the UK...What should we do?

    Race relations & Immigration in the UK, one of the most contentious issues in this election along with the economy I believe will be where the main parties stand of fall.

    In a nutshell: Race Relations & Immigration

    Conservative

    Bring down net immigration to 1990s levels.
    Ensure only economic migrants who will "bring the most value to the economy" are admitted.
    Support Labour’s Points-Based System, but also establish an annual limit for non-EU economic migrants.
    Set up a National Border Police Force with the power to stop, search, detain and arrest.
    Apply controls on migrants next time new countries join the EU.
    Enforce English language test for anyone coming to the UK to get married.
    Crack down on student visa abuse.
    Support community groups based on their effectiveness in countering poverty and deprivation rather than on the basis of ethnicity or faith.
    Improve availability of English language instruction for migrants.

    Labour

    Continue to tighten the newly-created points-based immigration system.
    Support the new Border Agency to guard ports and airports.
    Continued funding for electronic border controls to count people in and out of the country.
    Expand the Migration Impacts Fund to channel money to parts of the country which take in the most migrants.
    Introduced compulsory ID cards for foreign nationals.
    Continue to force employers to advertise skilled vacancies in job centres four weeks before appointing a skilled immigrant from outside the EU.
    Ensure migrants pass a tough English test before they arrive.
    Break the automatic link between staying in the UK for a set period and being able to settle or gain citizenship.

    Lib Dem

    Create a National Border Force with police powers and reintroduce exit checks at all ports.
    Assess the needs and resources of UK regions as part of a points-based immigration scheme.
    Support a common EU asylum policy.
    Allow asylum seekers to work.
    End the detention of children in immigration detention centres.
    Increase cost to business of work permits for immigrant employees to pay for training British workers.
    Create an "earned route" to citizenship for migrants who have been in the UK for 10 years.
    Review social housing allocation policies to ensure fair treatment.
    Establish Independent Asylum Agency to improve decision making, and cut appeals.
    Introduce "name blanking" policy on job applications to cut discrimination.

    Green Party

    Open up ways for existing illegal migrants who have been in the UK for three years to become legal.
    End detention for asylum-seekers and in particular their children.
    No restrictions on asylum-seekers taking work.
    Ensure that applications for refugee status are dealt with quickly and fairly, normally within three months, after which applicants should be given equal access to public services until a decision is made.
    Give asylum-seekers full welfare benefits.
    Ensure that the criminal justice system does not engage in stereotyping.
    Take action to address limited representation of ethnic minorities in certain careers.

    UKIP

    Freeze immigration for permanent settlement for five years.
    Aspire to ensure that any future immigration does not exceed 50,000 a year, using a points-based system.
    Triple the number of illegal immigrants deported.
    "no home no visa" work permits for immigrants.
    Force all public employees to carry out their duties with their faces uncovered.
    Require people to have uncovered faces in all public buildings and "certain private buildings".
    End the "active promotion of the doctrine of multiculturalism" by local and national government.

    BNP

    Immediate halt to all immigration.
    Immediate deportation of criminal and illegal immigrants.
    Offer legal immigrants and their descendants financial incentives to return voluntarily to their countries of origin.
    End "positive discrimination" schemes that benefit ethnic minorities in the workplace.
    Review all grants of residence or citizenship made since 1997.
    Bar "foreigners who have not paid into the system" from access to benefits, social housing, state education and pensions.
    Reject all asylum applicants who passed through "safe" countries on their way to Britain.
    Repeal Race Relations Act and other equality legislation.
    Increase funding to the UK Border Agency.
    Ban the burka, "non-stunned ritual slaughter" of animals and the building of further mosques.

    Has any one party got the right stance on the issue? Or is there a better solution?
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    Re: Race relations & Immigration in the UK...What should we do?

    Right, well I would eliminate the following from consideration straight away :-

    BNP - Pay legal migrants to go home. Like hell. I would, however, pay BNP supporters to emigrate .... if anyone will take them. Zimbabwe maybe? I'm sure they'd get on with Mugabe like a house on fire. Literally.

    Green - legalise illegal immigrants after 3 years? So they want to send the message that if you can get here and manage to hide for three years, you get rewarded for it. Idiotic.

    UKIP. Putting a cap on is one thing, but artificially determining what it should be for idealogical reasons makes no sense.

    LibDem - Earned route to citizenship is Amnesty by another name. I reject that utterly.

    That leaves Labour and Tory. Do I trust Labour to actually do what they say after 13 years of failure? Like hell I do.

    So, Tory. Broadly, they say the same as Labour, and the argument over a cap is in my view entirely artificial.

    An immigration policy ought to be about the needs of the country, and fulfilling that need. Whether you do it by a cap (that varies according to need), or by adjusting scoring in a points system is immaterial provided it works. By and large, I don't trust Labour (based on their record) to get it right and the only reason I trust the Tories a bit more is that they haven't yet proved to be incompetent at it.

    Oh, and personally, I'd crack down hard on employers taking on illegal workers, unless they can show they did all reasonable checks. Hard enough that taking the risk is financially unattractive.

    None of the parties is serious about illegal immigration. They talk a good game but don't put in place the measures and resources to back it up.

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    Re: Race relations & Immigration in the UK...What should we do?

    I know some will all call me racist, but i don't actually have a problem with what OID quotes as the BNP stance.
    It is all fair, when taken in the context it was written on this forum in.

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    Re: Race relations & Immigration in the UK...What should we do?

    For similar reasons to Saracen, I'm with the Tories on this one pretty much by default.

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    Re: Race relations & Immigration in the UK...What should we do?

    Quote Originally Posted by 0iD View Post
    BNP
    Offer legal immigrants and their descendants financial incentives to return voluntarily to their countries of origin.
    Given that I am technically a legal immigrant and entitled to dual nationality with a British/Chinese passport..... me likey this option (Leave country as legal Chinese immigrant, return on UK passport )

    I think I read it was around £50,000



    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    BNP - Pay legal migrants to go home. Like hell. I would, however, pay BNP supporters to emigrate .... if anyone will take them. Zimbabwe maybe? I'm sure they'd get on with Mugabe like a house on fire. Literally.
    Maybe Nick would use his money to visit Nairobi like he said East London was like, after all if has never been there according to some points of view he has no place to comment on what it is like
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    Re: Race relations & Immigration in the UK...What should we do?

    I hate to sound like a broken record but 80% of immigrants are EU. There is no legal way to control them without leaving.

    I like; BNP - Reject all asylum applicants who passed through "safe" countries on their way to Britain. Language aside why do they all want to come here? The rest of europe has to share the burden for the rest of the world. Have a europot and then reassign people.

    Without hard working immigrants the country would definately fall apart. I believe Holland has system where they subsidise people to emmigrate. We should do that for pond life and then introduce a one in/one out system. We'll cap immigration and improve the genepool. On a biological level I'm more worried about being outbred by spongers than I am of being overrun by immigrants.

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    Re: Race relations & Immigration in the UK...What should we do?

    One thing we (as a country) do need, and badly, is a conversation about this, and preferably an adult one that doesn't involve being called a bigot behind your back, just for mentioning it. That attitude and reaction is precisely why we have a problem, which is because politicians have been too afraid, for far too long, to express a view.

    So a couple of ground rules in my view.

    1) Debates about immigration are about immigration. I don't care what colour, race or religion the prospective immigrant is.

    2) An immigration policy is about legal immigration. Illegal immigration is a different issue.

    3) Asylum, where genuine, is different again.

    We need to bear those distinctions in mind.

    That said, immigration within policy = good.
    Excessive immigration = bad.

    It's about getting the right balance, and that will vary according to needs, which is why the Tories are right to go for a cap, but one that varies and is set according to needs (and resources) at the time. It could and should go up and down as the situation changes.

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    Re: Race relations & Immigration in the UK...What should we do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Domestic_Ginger View Post
    I hate to sound like a broken record but 80% of immigrants are EU. There is no legal way to control them without leaving.
    ....
    I hear you, but I'd suggest they're not actually immigrants. If you expand the border definitions to the EU borders, then that's about social mobility within the borders. The real problem there is that out political masters signed up to the implications of the ever-expanding remit of the EU without ever bothering to consult us, the people .... and badly misread the implications of doing so.

    In any event, semantics aside, you're right. We can't do a blind thing about that without either leaving the EU or radically amending some existing treaties, which is probably less likely than leaving altogether, and that's a hell of a long shot.

    But that we can't do anything about that doesn't mean we don't address the bits we can do. It just makes it more important to do so.

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    Re: Race relations & Immigration in the UK...What should we do?

    Conservative

    Ensure only economic migrants who will "bring the most value to the economy" are admitted. (seems logical)
    Support Labour’s Points-Based System, but also establish an annual limit for non-EU economic migrants. (Countries like Canada and New Zealand already have a points system for most (exception is positions such as nurses, doctors etc))
    Crack down on student visa abuse. (I think this is a matter in a lot of places with people outstaying their education visa)
    Improve availability of English language instruction for migrants.

    Labour
    Ensure migrants pass a tough English test before they arrive. (assuming students with GCSEs can pass it....)

    Lib Dem
    Assess the needs and resources of UK regions as part of a points-based immigration scheme. (again many others already do this)
    Support a common EU asylum policy.(seems sensible)
    Allow asylum seekers to work. (totally agree, they should be able to contribute to society just live everyone else)
    Create an "earned route" to citizenship for migrants who have been in the UK for 10 years. (seems sensible, IIRC USA do this also)
    Introduce "name blanking" policy on job applications to cut discrimination. (I agree, it shouldn't be what your name is as long as you can do the job to the satisfactory level)

    UKIP
    "no home no visa" work permits for immigrants. (surely a permit should be awarded on the evidence you have some way to live and support yourself until you find work)
    Force all public employees to carry out their duties with their faces uncovered. (secondary bonus... bans emo hair cuts)

    BNP
    Offer legal immigrants and their descendants financial incentives to return voluntarily to their countries of origin. (as I said, I'd take advantage )
    Reject all asylum applicants who passed through "safe" countries on their way to Britain. (I thought EU law said that if you wanted to request asylum you have to do it in the first country you enter the EU....)


    The Silly:
    BNP
    Immediate deportation of criminal and illegal immigrants. (good lucking finding all of them)
    Repeal Race Relations Act and other equality legislation.(like sexual discrimination acts?, age discrimination acts?)
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiggerai View Post
    I do like a bit of hot crumpet

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    Re: Race relations & Immigration in the UK...What should we do?

    Quote Originally Posted by 0iD View Post
    Offer legal immigrants and their descendants financial incentives to return voluntarily to their countries of origin.
    How many generations back would this have to be?? 1,2,10 or a 100??

    Would that mean even the people who fought for this country,the educated(scientists,doctors and engineers for example) and people who own businesses?

    Edit! Not trying to attack anyone here but it would be nice to have some clarification in detail over the BNP actually means by this!

    Quote Originally Posted by finlay666 View Post
    Given that I am technically a legal immigrant and entitled to dual nationality with a British/Chinese passport..... me likey this option (Leave country as legal Chinese immigrant, return on UK passport )

    I think I read it was around £50,000


    It is not going to work though!!

    It is not about citizenship but your parentage - so called "racial purity"!

    Basically the most pure are the English,Scots,Welsh and Irish(or at least the ones that don't have any mixed parentage along their bloodline) . After that come western Europeans and then the rest of the world.

    Just have a look through their manifestos over the last 8 years - interesting reading! Their more recent ones have cut down quite a bit on the rhetoric though!
    Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 01-05-2010 at 12:40 PM.

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    Re: Race relations & Immigration in the UK...What should we do?

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    It is not going to work though!!

    It is not about citizenship but your parentage - so called "racial purity"!

    Basically the most pure are the English,Scots,Welsh and Irish(or at least the ones that don't have any mixed parentage along their bloodline) . After that come western Europeans and then the rest of the world.

    Just have a look through their manifestos over the last 8 years - interesting reading! Their more recent ones have cut down quite a bit on the rhetoric though!


    That said Brits are pretty damn diverse considering all the nationalities that invaded us previously, Italians (Romans), French, Scandinavians etc.

    The only thing I would use their old manifestos for is wiping my backside, and only then if it's printed on double quilted paper
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiggerai View Post
    I do like a bit of hot crumpet

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    Re: Race relations & Immigration in the UK...What should we do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    LibDem - Earned route to citizenship is Amnesty by another name. I reject that utterly.
    It's rare for me ask an expansion from Saracen, but could you please do on the above point? Is the earned route to citizenship not simply a set of rules required by non-citizen (but legal migrants) in order to become citizen in this country?

    My order of preference based on my own understanding would be Lib-Deb -> Tory -> Labour

    Green is far too soft on a few points (already covered), and the BNP is on the other side of the spectrum. UKIP actually make some good point, so I prefer their policies over the other two.
    Last edited by TooNice; 01-05-2010 at 01:01 PM.

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    Re: Race relations & Immigration in the UK...What should we do?

    The biggest question is, do we need any more people in this country, and if so whom? Are we short of manual labourers? semi-skilled office workers? leaders? bankers? doctors? nurses??

    The whole point of having an immigration policy is to ensure we end up with the right type of people living here. I don't care what race, religion or ethnicity they are, as long as they can speak coherant English and actually come here to work, it's fine.

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    Re: Race relations & Immigration in the UK...What should we do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucio View Post
    The whole point of having an immigration policy is to ensure we end up with the right type of people living here. I don't care what race, religion or ethnicity they are, as long as they can speak coherant English and actually come here to work, it's fine.
    TBH I'm not fussed on the English part as long as there are measures put in place for those jobs urgently needed (medical staff etc) so those that can't speak English to an acceptable level can have training so they can
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    Re: Race relations & Immigration in the UK...What should we do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    LibDem - Earned route to citizenship is Amnesty by another name. I reject that utterly.
    Don't we already have this though? LibDems are just shortening the time requirement by two years or so.

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    Re: Race relations & Immigration in the UK...What should we do?

    Quote Originally Posted by finlay666 View Post
    TBH I'm not fussed on the English part as long as there are measures put in place for those jobs urgently needed (medical staff etc) so those that can't speak English to an acceptable level can have training so they can
    I am fussed about the English part, if you can't communicate effectively, you can't intergrate into society properly, nor can you undertake 90% of work either because most jobs require you to interact with other people.

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