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Thread: Advice regarding approaching payrise...

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    Advice regarding approaching payrise...

    Basically for what i do i'm paid feck all (isn't it always the case), (£5.25 per hour, 40 hour week)

    With recent cost of living increases i'm now stuck with a decision to make

    1. Stick with it until the end of September
    2. Start applying elsewhere i.e. Tesco...
    3. Attempt to get some sort of payrise from my boss

    Now seems simple enough right?

    However, throw into the fray that the company has 3 employees in day to day, it was previously 5

    1. The director
    2. The office manager
    3. The stores manager
    4. The store man
    5. The driver

    Now, due to various reasons, 3, 4 and 5 have left, at which point i entered (having done little bits here and there when needed)

    So now there is:

    1. The director
    2. The office manager
    3. me

    So everyone has defined roles that are unchanged except mine...

    So i have basically taken over 3, 4 and 5 but on nowhere near the money of any of them...

    Petrol is now costing me £50 every 2 weeks due to the distance every morning and night (~42 miles per day)

    Which obviously throws running costs of the car into consideration, which were also highlighted at the weekend when a rear brake lining fell off and binded the wheel causing me to be rather stuck in the middle of the road...

    Finally managed to get the drum off [then obviously saw the problem] then i got my dad to take me to the local motorspares (~20 miles round trip)

    New pads @ £17 (which isn't too bad, as i'd rather have the brakes be right than cheap crap...)

    So my low wage is starting to get to me TBH...

    My problem is, is that the director [who i will have to go to for a pay rise] is some what of a dictator and everything has to be done his way, and he doesn't like the be told that he is wrong or what to do...

    So if i waltz in and request a payrise it will more than likely put his nose out of joint and he'll throw back a comment like "but we're already paying you above minimum wage", which is true but it is the youth rate, which hardly anywhere actually uses...

    I'm considering going all out and requesting a jump to £7.23 per hour, which is what i deem to be the appropriate point for the work that i do...

    Now i know full well that things go down the pan when i'm not there, as i'm the only one that knows where everything is... That was highlighted when i booked a day off for the LAN to get everything sorted, and ended up at work to help out because it "was really busy", which to be fair it was a slightly busier day, nothing out of the ordinary that we don't get all of the time...

    For example today, a few pallets came in the van was up for MOT, customers in and out etc etc.

    And i'm getting moaned at for doing things in the wrong order... Eh?

    I wasn't given an order, the job i was putting up i was doing so to actually make some space to continue with other things...

    To which he just kept saying job whatever needs delivering in the morning you need to be on with that... So what about the stuff that needs delivering today?...

    Grrrrrrr!!!

    I think i've answered my own question... Ask for a payrise and apply elsewhere...
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    Re: Advice regarding approaching payrise...

    Did it at least feel a bit better getting it all out and finding the solution?
    (Sensible take IMO)

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    Re: Advice regarding approaching payrise...

    Either your boss starts appreciating you or find another place that will

    I've gotta say im on more than that in a part time job for uni :S On a sunday im on £11ish an hour.. I work at John Lewis 2 days a week before you ask

    Goodluck!

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    Re: Advice regarding approaching payrise...

    Indeed. Or ask for a company car/van and fuel card.

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    Re: Advice regarding approaching payrise...

    Whatever you do don't start risking your position at work without having a decent backup plan in place.

    I would apply elsewhere, get a firm job offer, and then you've got a choice. Take it to this guy and say, "I've got an offer of £8 per hour elsewhere, match it or I'm gone." And you don't even have to tell the truth there if you don't want to.

    Thing is, if you just go to this guy and ask for a payrise - he doesn't sound like he respects you a whole lot, but he does get nervous when you aren't there. So I bet if you told him that you wanted more cash, he'd probably crap himself, and start preparing for the worst - i.e. looking elsewhere. And then before you know it you could end up being replaced without anywhere else to go. I know technically they can't really do that, but since he doesn't seem to respect you all that much I wouldn't put much faith in him playing fairly.

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    Re: Advice regarding approaching payrise...

    As per any other thread of this nature, if you're serious then you have to go in with the attitude and willingness to walk if you don't get what you (reasonably) want or think you deserve. Of course it's prudent to have another job in case. Anything less and you risk them calling your bluff and losing all leverage, now and in future. If you're really worth more then you'll get it and if they won't pay you what you're worth then you're better off walking. It's really that simple IMO.

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    Re: Advice regarding approaching payrise...

    As previously mentioned you should make sure that you have a job on offer before asking for a pay rise, as if he calls your bluff you won't have any money.

    The fact is that lots of people have had to take pay cuts, and lots of people at the moment are struggling on the wages they are earning - especially as everything else doesn't seem to go down or stay at the same price.

    It is really an employers market at the moment I'm afraid.

    At the moment if you are making enough to have some spending money you are still doing a lot better than a lot of people atm

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    Re: Advice regarding approaching payrise...

    What age are you TAKTAK if you don't mind me asking. IIRC if you are over 21 you are required to be paid more than your current rate.

    I might be wrong though.
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    Re: Advice regarding approaching payrise...

    How old are you mate?

    If you 22 or older then that £5.25 is under the minimum wage..so you definitely need to ask for a payrise to at least that (£5.80 as of end of last year).

    If you are under that age, then I'd suggest moving on to a different job - any of the large retailers should pay you more than that as a starting wage. I guess the latter depends on your personal situation and what you want to do with your life - are you studying at the moment? In training for any sort of qualification? If not is there anything you can do alongside your current job?

    Back to the original point though..asking for a payrise is not that easy, very difficult to approach someone an say "i want more money please". I think as has been mentioned the best strategy would be to compare against other jobs - especially any that are doing the same or very similar things to you at the moment. He may get scared that you will leave and try to find something else then, and since they are short on staff at the moment anyway he probably won't be inclined to let you go so easily (and add to that the fact that you sound a very good worker - so even more reason for him not to lose you!).

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    Re: Advice regarding approaching payrise...

    Thinking out of the box for a moment....
    Book a weeks holiday off. Be un contactable for a week. I mean completely un contactable by work.
    When you get back, sort everything out then carefully approach the subject of a payrise.
    "In a perfect world... spammers would get caught, go to jail, and share a cell with many men who have enlarged their penises, taken Viagra and are looking for a new relationship."

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    Re: Advice regarding approaching payrise...

    Did I hear correctly ? You're not being re-imbursed for your out of pocket expenses ?
    If so, that is plainly wrong and should be something that even a small firm would have no problem in addressing. You should feel confident in asking for your money back - keep receipts obviously.
    Apart from that, I would echo the others and suggest that you start looking elsewhere.
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    Re: Advice regarding approaching payrise...

    I'm broadly in agreement with most of the others.

    Point 1) It's hard times. Have an alternative lined up before you present your boss with an ultimatum. Firstly, because if he doesn't budge, you have your fallback position. Secondly, because you'll have a lot more confidence if you aren't bluffing when you present the ultimatum than if you are.

    Point 2). Having lined up a firm alternative, you then have to decide if you actually want to stay put if you get a pay rise, or go to the alternative anyway. If you are as unhappy and resentful as you sound, it may be that moving would be a good bet regardless of getting a pay rise. If so, you don't bother with the ultimatum, you just line up the alternative... then take it.

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    Re: Advice regarding approaching payrise...

    Quote Originally Posted by TooNice View Post
    Did it at least feel a bit better getting it all out and finding the solution?
    (Sensible take IMO)
    Yep

    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyMonkey View Post
    Either your boss starts appreciating you or find another place that will

    I've gotta say im on more than that in a part time job for uni :S On a sunday im on £11ish an hour.. I work at John Lewis 2 days a week before you ask

    Goodluck!
    My boss will never appreciate anyone except himself. That's just the kind of person he is, the office manager has been there since it was setup and worked with him at a previous employer. Yet he still treats her like dirt, to the point that she gets to work and just switches off.
    As an example after about 10 years of running the director was talking about changing his car yet again, to which the sleeping director chipped in that the office manager should have a company car by now, he was against the idea, but the sleeping director has alot of whack...
    So they eventually got him turned around to a company car for her and they ended up with a cheap second hand run about, she still pays the fuel, the company just provides the car and servicing.

    Another example that is more current is, all three company vehicles are up for changing, the directors car is a top spec Audi A6 Sline, which is a 2008 i think. Everything is done through Audi dealers. Car wash every week put on expenses

    The office managers car also wants changing, a golf, already having the engine blow up twice and various other costly things...

    And then the works van is up for renewal which has been almost written off last year when an ex employee of the sleeping directors company stuck it in the back of a porsche while he was deviating from the route. The vans currently sat at 130,000 miles of which most are done laden. But to be fair it is still going strong.. (slightly less so after today )

    So guess which vehicle is up for renewal first?

    Quote Originally Posted by kalniel View Post
    Indeed. Or ask for a company car/van and fuel card.
    Not going to happen, never in a million years, plus i'm hopping off to uni in sept this year so that would further hinder my case.

    Quote Originally Posted by snootyjim View Post
    Whatever you do don't start risking your position at work without having a decent backup plan in place.

    I would apply elsewhere, get a firm job offer, and then you've got a choice. Take it to this guy and say, "I've got an offer of £8 per hour elsewhere, match it or I'm gone." And you don't even have to tell the truth there if you don't want to.

    Thing is, if you just go to this guy and ask for a payrise - he doesn't sound like he respects you a whole lot, but he does get nervous when you aren't there. So I bet if you told him that you wanted more cash, he'd probably crap himself, and start preparing for the worst - i.e. looking elsewhere. And then before you know it you could end up being replaced without anywhere else to go. I know technically they can't really do that, but since he doesn't seem to respect you all that much I wouldn't put much faith in him playing fairly.
    That's the thing, i'm not bothered if he just fired me (which he actually can't as it would most likely send the company under/make operating impossible for an extended period of time) i'm swanning off to uni in September so i really have nothing to lose, i've already built up some capital to see me through most of the way, but the grants and loans will sort that anyway.

    Basically if he turned around and fired me, i'd put alot of money on that being the final straw for the office manager, who is constantly talking about needing to leave but having no motivation too.. So by firing me, he loses his right arm basically, she does all of the accounts and most ordering, he would also lose quite a few customers who would jump ship to some of the competitors slightly further afield.

    So the only outcome he can give me is 'no you can't have a pay rise' and attempt to justify that decision.

    It might put him in a bad mood, but he literally can't get rid of me without causing substantial drawbacks to himself and the company.

    I really want to see what happens in September when i'm not there... As i can guarantee that he won't even start looking for a replacement until i've left... And it will leave them at a point where there are only 2 people which just can't work, it only just works with 3...

    So in that regard, if safe, plus the fact he's not that kind of person, sure he puts himself before everything, but that would be too far even for him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bugbait View Post
    As per any other thread of this nature, if you're serious then you have to go in with the attitude and willingness to walk if you don't get what you (reasonably) want or think you deserve. Of course it's prudent to have another job in case. Anything less and you risk them calling your bluff and losing all leverage, now and in future. If you're really worth more then you'll get it and if they won't pay you what you're worth then you're better off walking. It's really that simple IMO.
    As stated above, i'm in the decent position that i don't need the money to survive as i've managed to save enough to tide me over to September, if it came down to leaving then i would.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flash477 View Post
    As previously mentioned you should make sure that you have a job on offer before asking for a pay rise, as if he calls your bluff you won't have any money.

    The fact is that lots of people have had to take pay cuts, and lots of people at the moment are struggling on the wages they are earning - especially as everything else doesn't seem to go down or stay at the same price.

    It is really an employers market at the moment I'm afraid.

    At the moment if you are making enough to have some spending money you are still doing a lot better than a lot of people atm
    As above, it doesn't matter if he calls my bluff, because i can hand my weeks notice in and leave there and then, with enough to tide me over

    Sure lots of people are having to take pay cuts but when the initial wage is below the adult minimum wage then it still has leverage in it

    Quote Originally Posted by format View Post
    What age are you TAKTAK if you don't mind me asking. IIRC if you are over 21 you are required to be paid more than your current rate.

    I might be wrong though.
    19, and yes the development rate is £4.80 so i am paid more than i have to be at £5.25, purely because when i was offered the role i said that i wouldn't work for minimum wage, i hadn't realised that my minimum wage was different to 'the minimum wage' though, so £5.25 sounded acceptable to me at the time (ignorance is bliss sometimes...)

    Quote Originally Posted by Spud1 View Post
    How old are you mate?

    If you 22 or older then that £5.25 is under the minimum wage..so you definitely need to ask for a payrise to at least that (£5.80 as of end of last year).

    If you are under that age, then I'd suggest moving on to a different job - any of the large retailers should pay you more than that as a starting wage. I guess the latter depends on your personal situation and what you want to do with your life - are you studying at the moment? In training for any sort of qualification? If not is there anything you can do alongside your current job?

    Back to the original point though..asking for a payrise is not that easy, very difficult to approach someone an say "i want more money please". I think as has been mentioned the best strategy would be to compare against other jobs - especially any that are doing the same or very similar things to you at the moment. He may get scared that you will leave and try to find something else then, and since they are short on staff at the moment anyway he probably won't be inclined to let you go so easily (and add to that the fact that you sound a very good worker - so even more reason for him not to lose you!).
    Yep, that was my reasoning behind Tesco, because AFAIK they stick to £5.80 base rate (i could well be wrong) and also they offer a student transfer system, which would be handy

    Quote Originally Posted by badass View Post
    Thinking out of the box for a moment....
    Book a weeks holiday off. Be un contactable for a week. I mean completely un contactable by work.
    When you get back, sort everything out then carefully approach the subject of a payrise.
    Won't work, the office manager lives around the corner from me and is a friend, so that approach isn't really viable, plus the fact that loses we 5 days of extra pay at the end of the year

    Quote Originally Posted by Phage View Post
    Did I hear correctly ? You're not being re-imbursed for your out of pocket expenses ?
    If so, that is plainly wrong and should be something that even a small firm would have no problem in addressing. You should feel confident in asking for your money back - keep receipts obviously.
    Apart from that, I would echo the others and suggest that you start looking elsewhere.
    I think we've got wires crossed :/ i don't have any expenses, all i have is commuting costs/wear and tear, which should rightly be paid by me

    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    I'm broadly in agreement with most of the others.

    Point 1) It's hard times. Have an alternative lined up before you present your boss with an ultimatum. Firstly, because if he doesn't budge, you have your fallback position. Secondly, because you'll have a lot more confidence if you aren't bluffing when you present the ultimatum than if you are.

    Point 2). Having lined up a firm alternative, you then have to decide if you actually want to stay put if you get a pay rise, or go to the alternative anyway. If you are as unhappy and resentful as you sound, it may be that moving would be a good bet regardless of getting a pay rise. If so, you don't bother with the ultimatum, you just line up the alternative... then take it.
    But do i really need a fallback, if i ask and he says no then things just continue as normal surely?
    Having said that, my alternative is already in place in the form of uni come September, but i've already been offered work for holidays.

    I think the main reason i'm still there is that it is a mixture of things during the day rather than one task, a little bit of driving (made more interesting by todays events), plus the fact it is obviously easier to stay put than start looking else where...


    I was all set to ask this afternoon, but then i chucked a massive spanner in the works while delivering to site...

    Basically i pulled on to site, go told where they wanted the items so i reversed back so that the side door was facing the right direction for easier offloading (~1 ton of bags), however while reversing back onto site, the backend passed over the entrance fine, but due to the weight in the centre and going sluggishly, the front end collapsed the edge of the roadway causing the left front to follow it in...

    So obviously i had to get a crane to pull me out, bugger all damage to the van when i got back to the yard as it had been supported by the axle, but the sump guard was flapping in a few places (it's been broken since it was stuffed in the back of the porsche), so a few drill screws fixed that.

    But i thought it would be better to wait for that to pass before asking for a raise

    So i'll ask tomorrow instead...
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    Re: Advice regarding approaching payrise...

    Quote Originally Posted by TAKTAK View Post
    That's the thing, i'm not bothered if he just fired me (which he actually can't as it would most likely send the company under/make operating impossible for an extended period of time) i'm swanning off to uni in September so i really have nothing to lose, i've already built up some capital to see me through most of the way, but the grants and loans will sort that anyway.

    Basically if he turned around and fired me, i'd put alot of money on that being the final straw for the office manager, who is constantly talking about needing to leave but having no motivation too.. So by firing me, he loses his right arm basically, she does all of the accounts and most ordering, he would also lose quite a few customers who would jump ship to some of the competitors slightly further afield.

    So the only outcome he can give me is 'no you can't have a pay rise' and attempt to justify that decision.

    It might put him in a bad mood, but he literally can't get rid of me without causing substantial drawbacks to himself and the company.

    I really want to see what happens in September when i'm not there... As i can guarantee that he won't even start looking for a replacement until i've left... And it will leave them at a point where there are only 2 people which just can't work, it only just works with 3...

    So in that regard, if safe, plus the fact he's not that kind of person, sure he puts himself before everything, but that would be too far even for him.
    Nice one, hope it all works out well for you. That definitely changes things a bit though, I was assuming that you were in it for the long haul, so was concerned that you might've ended up with nothing and no job for a year or something.

    I agree that they'd struggle to sack you, I just wondered whether this manager was the type of person to panic and then start looking for replacements immediately because they suspected you might be trying to leave in the near future.

    As things stand though, even if he did that, by the time he'd found a suitable replacement you'd be ready to pack your bags and go to university anyway so it's not a big deal. It works in your favour really, because they've got everything to lose and you, not so much. Be careful - obviously - but maybe you've got a better chance of convincing them you deserve a bit more. Hope it all works out well.

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    Re: Advice regarding approaching payrise...

    TakTak.
    Please do not take offence at what i am about to say. It's just a pointer to be careful.

    With that kind of wage (as i said...no offence meant), it is obviously unskilled labour. With this in mind, and regardless of what you do for the company, it would be easy to replace you.

    The are a good couple of million in the dole queue that would do the job.

    (sorry to be so honest )

  16. #16
    I R Toff Pandi! TAKTAK's Avatar
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    Re: Advice regarding approaching payrise...

    Quote Originally Posted by Blitzen View Post
    TakTak.
    Please do not take offence at what i am about to say. It's just a pointer to be careful.

    With that kind of wage (as i said...no offence meant), it is obviously unskilled labour. With this in mind, and regardless of what you do for the company, it would be easy to replace you.

    The are a good couple of million in the dole queue that would do the job.

    (sorry to be so honest )
    Oh god yes, i'm not naive enough to think that i'm the only one that can do the job and that i'm priceless and should be paid hundreds of thousands per year, because at the end of the day all it is picking/packing/inspecting/stock checking/van driving/sorting customers out, which lets be honest, anyone with half a brain cell can do... And lets face it if i left and they advertised, they would literally get a stack of people to sift through...

    My thing is, with the way to company is, it is a bit out of the ordinary and weird, by the fact that boss is a complete arse and yet he isn't...

    Which makes no sense...

    He is an arse in that everything is "me, me, me", one example i was given today is that everytime the scrap gets put through the earnings get split between everyone.. Which is fair enough...

    However the boss will take half and then spread the other half out

    It's the little things that he does and it is very hard to explain without being in the situation

    But basically he can be as kind as anything and at other times he is as dim as a plank.

    So what i am trying to say is by asking for a raise, because of the type of person that he is, he will either say yes or no, and that will be that. No more no less. So i'm in the weird and rare position that actually asking for a raise won't negativly implicate me in any way (despite having to put up with him being grumpy for the day if he says yes)

    It's weird as hell and what have you...


    And on other peoples points, i wouldn't want to "add leverage" for me it is purely a case of yes or no, if he wants to he will, if he doesn't he won't, i don't want to force a descision, but it has very little effect either way due to leaving in Sept anyway (which he's know since i got the place)
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