Help if you can please

[Hidden Spirit]

Can anyone give me any advice on how to go about getting a job in the IT industry if you have no paper based IT qualifications?

For example, if someone can do web design (including CSS), pc maintenance & repair, pc building, networking, trouble shooting etc. but they do not have this little bit of paper to officially say they can.

They would be able (hopefully anyway) to get a reference from a web based employer to say they have done work on the support desk on-line and of course could show prospective employers what they can do, but it's how to go about getting that far in the first place

Any help/advice much appreciated

[petrefax]

thought about working for yourself? - just a thought

[directhex]

without qualifications you'll need a portfolio or experience.

you can embelish a little (e.g. 10 years' Windows PC maintenance cos you got your first PC in 1994), but without a qualification or experience you may be stuck

[DaBeeeenster]

Two choices really:

1) Try and get a job at the bottom of the ladder at any firm you can and work your way up.
2) Go back to school.

I dont really think there are any other reasonable solutions, other than going into business for yourself, but this is very, very difficult if you want to make a living out of it.

The IT industry has a surplus of people with "little bits of paper", unfortunately...

[Ravens Nest]

I'm in a similiar position, would like to get a job in I.T. but dont have the qualifications on paper.

I have been building P.C.'s since 1993 and know my way around windows 95-98-2000-XP, i can sort most hardware software problems without resorting to looking on the net for the answer.

So thought i'd try to get into that field as my options are getting very limited in my current line of work (Retail-warehouse work), so i went for the study at home for I.T. qualification.

I'm currently on a PC masters degree course by a company called schiedegger costing £1,600 and i supposed to be 2-3 month home study and 3-4 months in college one day a week.

But i've pretty much been lied to just so they can get my money i was told it would take 7-14 months to complete but im now on 10 months and im still only on the home study course which i was told should only take 2-3 months!!

i've not even gone to college yet every time i complete a lesson it takes over a week to get an answer back so i've done 11 lessons each takes about 2 days to complete 11 lessons X 2 weeks (as it takes me another week to get a quiet couple of days to complete the next lesson) = 22 weeks nearly 6 months of study at home so far (not 2-3 months as stated) and then i got another book through to complete with another 7 lessons in it!!

As you can see my course is not going well at all

But i'd say if you can get a reputable company to do a home study course with then do it, computeach looks quite good.

[DaBeeeenster]

I'm in a similiar position, would like to get a job in I.T. but dont have the qualifications on paper.

I have been building P.C.'s since 1993 and know my way around windows 95-98-2000-XP, i can sort most hardware software problems without resorting to looking on the net for the answer.

So thought i'd try to get into that field as my options are getting very limited in my current line of work (Retail-warehouse work), so i went for the study at home for I.T. qualification.

I'm currently on a PC masters degree course by a company called schiedegger costing £1,600 and i supposed to be 2-3 month home study and 3-4 months in college one day a week.

But i've pretty much been lied to just so they can get my money i was told it would take 7-14 months to complete but im now on 10 months and im still only on the home study course which i was told should only take 2-3 months!!

i've not even gone to college yet every time i complete a lesson it takes over a week to get an answer back so i've done 11 lessons each takes about 2 days to complete 11 lessons X 2 weeks (as it takes me another week to get a quiet couple of days to complete the next lesson) = 22 weeks nearly 6 months of study at home so far (not 2-3 months as stated) and then i got another book through to complete with another 7 lessons in it!!

As you can see my course is not going well at all

But i'd say if you can get a reputable company to do a home study course with then do it, computeach looks quite good.

Could you not do an Open University course? Or what about some occupational qualifications like MCSE/D, CCNA, Java Certification...

[Butuz]

You would be better off doing a part time degree course in a university rather than lining some training company's pockets.

I dont trust any of these qualification companies, i would not spend a pound of my own money on one, only if the company paid would i consider using one.

Even a degree is far from a garuntee of work. it certainly doesnt show you know anything particulalry technical or IT related - all it is is a piece of paper that says you can sit down and learn and absorb information for long enough to pass exams. Thats all. Degrees are becoming more and more worthless the more people have them - if the GVMNT have their way everyone will have a degree and while it will give them statistics in order to fare better against other contries, it wont help anyone get jobs.

Your better of starting off at the bottom in IT support somewhere, and then working your butt off showing good technical knowledge and people skills, and then moving up and up. work for a year, move to a new job work for a year, move, etc do that for 5 years and you'll have a CV fit for any good IT job you wish to take.

Butuz

[Spunkey]

the only way to really do it if you dont have any bits of paper is to start at the bottom and work your way up.

about 5 years ago i left school looking to get an IT job without any IT qualifications, like yourself. I knew HTML and little VB, and i could put a PC together with my eyes closed. I wasnt sure if i wanted to go with the web design or hardware side of things, so i scoured the yellow pages and rang local companies asking if they had jobs going. In the end i got a job in a Maplins Upgrade Centre. Like i said, start at the bottom and work up
Working in there I found out that the hardware bit wasnt for me - while its fun building your own pc, its not so much fun building them to see them come back when someone has deleted every file on they're pc that wasnt written in english as they thought it was slowing the pc down as it had to translate it (true story)

All the time working there i was looking through the local paper and still ringing web design companies in the yellow pages. eventually i got a job as a junior in a small accountancy company redesigning their website. You'll find as you start to get experience the more companies will want to employ you - its a vicious circle as no IT company really wants to take on a new guy and pay out the expense of training them, when in all likelihood they'll not be working for them in 2 years time.

Anyway, moral of the story - do qualifications if you feel you need to brush up on things, but the bottom line is companies want experience not book smarts, so youre best bet is to get ringing every company you can find

[DaBeeeenster]

Even a degree is far from a garuntee of work. it certainly doesnt show you know anything particulalry technical or IT related - all it is is a piece of paper that says you can sit down and learn and absorb information for long enough to pass exams. Thats all. Degrees are becoming more and more worthless the more people have them - if the GVMNT have their way everyone will have a degree and while it will give them statistics in order to fare better against other contries, it wont help anyone get jobs.

Although I agree with you to a certain extent, I think you are overdoing it a little.

It all depends on what sort of employment you are looking for. For example, you can have all the "hands on" experience in the world, but chances are if you have never had complex data structures, third normal form, OOA&D or C++ Templates explained to you, you will not learn about them (properly) with hands on experience.

But as I say, it depends on what sort of job you want. I wouldnt employ a developer without a Software Engineering or related degree unless they showed outstanding ability in some form or another, and I dont think many other software companies would either. Why? Partly for the reasons given above and partly because employers have that luxury; there is a pool of people with decent Software Engineering degrees looking for work.

Having said that, jobs in other areas like technical support or system administration are a slightly different kettle of fish where hands on knowledge will stand you in good stead.

You do have to be prepared to start at the bottom, even if this means sending out hundreds of CVs and even working for free on a trial basis for a month or so (seriously).

[Ravens Nest]

Could you not do an Open University course? Or what about some occupational qualifications like MCSE/D, CCNA, Java Certification...

The problem i've got at the moment is im in the middle of trying to get this qualification and owing them £1,600 so im not sure what to do and what my rights are as i have been misled by there salesman into believing within a year - 14 months tops i'd have a good job in I.T even if it is at the bottom of the ladder, if i could get out of the course and get my money back then i'd try again elsewhere.

MCSE/D seems quite interesting i nearly went for it 3 years ago (it was being advertised locally at the time), but i'm not a confident person i felt i was not ready for the course, actually looking back i know i could have done it.

The job situation i am in has forced me to realise i've got to do something or my skills will be wasted, and i will be stuck in dead-end jobs the rest of my life.

Oh well, do you know a good place i could read up on MCSE/D qualification and what it entails?.

You would be better off doing a part time degree course in a university rather than lining some training company's pockets.

I dont trust any of these qualification companies, i would not spend a pound of my own money on one, only if the company paid would i consider using one.

Even a degree is far from a garuntee of work. it certainly doesnt show you know anything particulalry technical or IT related - all it is is a piece of paper that says you can sit down and learn and absorb information for long enough to pass exams. Thats all. Degrees are becoming more and more worthless the more people have them - if the GVMNT have their way everyone will have a degree and while it will give them statistics in order to fare better against other contries, it wont help anyone get jobs.

I dont trust the qualification company im with (Schiedegger) i wish i hadn't agreed to there course now, they send you out-of-date information and misspelt books, and im supposed to have a tutor but i dont really get any feedback, and if im a couple of weeks late sending a test back i dont get a phone call or an email asking where it is! i dont even know what college im supposed to go to and they dont either, but when they wanted me to join up they said it would be in a local area to me but later on i ask where will i be going to college and my tutor said she didnt know but it would probably be north london and i said thats no-where near my local area she said speak to the person that signed me up, so i ring him and he's like no no it will be your local area, but i dont have that in writing.

Your better of starting off at the bottom in IT support somewhere, and then working your butt off showing good technical knowledge and people skills, and then moving up and up. work for a year, move to a new job work for a year, move, etc do that for 5 years and you'll have a CV fit for any good IT job you wish to take.

Butuz

Thanks for the advice Butuz, perhaps i could get my foot in the door somewhere and try at the bottom of IT support, the only problem with that is i need £7 an hour to survive

[DaBeeeenster]

Sounds like you need to speak to someone about the course being mis-sold to you mate. Looks like a blatant case of their service not living up to what they originally offered you...

No idea about MSCE's - I hate Microsoft! (Used to be an MS developer but moved to Java a while back); maybe Shad can help here?

[Angus]

The problem i've got at the moment is im in the middle of trying to get this qualification and owing them £1,600 so im not sure what to do and what my rights are as i have been misled by there salesman into believing within a year - 14 months tops i'd have a good job in I.T even if it is at the bottom of the ladder, if i could get out of the course and get my money back then i'd try again elsewhere.

MCSE/D seems quite interesting i nearly went for it 3 years ago (it was being advertised locally at the time), but i'm not a confident person i felt i was not ready for the course, actually looking back i know i could have done it.

The job situation i am in has forced me to realise i've got to do something or my skills will be wasted, and i will be stuck in dead-end jobs the rest of my life.

Oh well, do you know a good place i could read up on MCSE/D qualification and what it entails?.


I dont trust the qualification company im with (Schiedegger) i wish i hadn't agreed to there course now, they send you out-of-date information and misspelt books, and im supposed to have a tutor but i dont really get any feedback, and if im a couple of weeks late sending a test back i dont get a phone call or an email asking where it is! i dont even know what college im supposed to go to and they dont either, but when they wanted me to join up they said it would be in a local area to me but later on i ask where will i be going to college and my tutor said she didnt know but it would probably be north london and i said thats no-where near my local area she said speak to the person that signed me up, so i ring him and he's like no no it will be your local area, but i dont have that in writing.


Thanks for the advice Butuz, perhaps i could get my foot in the door somewhere and try at the bottom of IT support, the only problem with that is i need £7 an hour to survive

You tried talking to Citizen's Advice??

Sounds like you've been well and truly screwed

[Ravens Nest]

Sounds like you need to speak to someone about the course being mis-sold to you mate. Looks like a blatant case of their service not living up to what they originally offered you...

No idea about MSCE's - I hate Microsoft! (Used to be an MS developer but moved to Java a while back); maybe Shad can help here?

Well i've just sent an email to my course tutor asking her how many more test's will i have to do before going to college, if its just these last 5 tests then i'll push myself to complete them, i only have 4 months before i must re-take the full qualification again (they give you 7-14 months)

I mean the whole idea was to get out of my existing hole i had dug for myself and start a new career, at the moment it feels like iv'e just been shafted and my bank account will be £1,620 lighter in 1 years time (Thats when the loan finishes)

I am going to take a look around for advice on what to do, but i've checked around my flat and cannot find anything that backs up what the schiedegger rep said to get me to sign up

You tried talking to Citizen's Advice??

Sounds like you've been well and truly screwed

Yep i sure have must have seen me coming a mile away , i havent talked to citizens advice yet but have thought about it.

Oh by the way sorry for hi-jacking the thread hidden spirit..

[Hidden Spirit]

That's ok RN

Thanks for the advice everyone. It's not actually for me, but for my partner, but thank you all the same

OU, university etc aren't really options as we have 3 children and can't afford to go that route. Have seen a job advertised for support desk dealing with RMA's etc, and they require a cv (which is another thread entirely!). The job lasts about 13 weeks, but it's a start

Anyway look out for my follow on thread (re: cv's) tonight if you can help with that