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Thread: patents

  1. #1
    2nd hardest inthe infants petrefax's Avatar
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    patents

    any idea how you'd go about checking if an idea has been patented already?

    my missus thought of a great idea for a commercial product that isn't currently available so was wondering how you'd find out if someone already holds the patent

    (oh, and "just post it on here & we'll let you know" is not gonna wash guys )
    if it ain't broke...fix it till it is


  2. #2
    WEEEEEEEEEEEEE! MadduckUK's Avatar
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    Re: patents

    of course you don't want to be posting it on here

    pm me and ill let you know
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  3. #3
    Banhammer in peace PeterB kalniel's Avatar
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    Re: patents

    http://www.ipo.gov.uk/

    and more specifically:

    http://www.ipo.gov.uk/types/patent/p-applying.htm

    edit: sorry, these are more on how to apply, not how to search them :/
    Last edited by kalniel; 25-05-2010 at 01:32 PM.

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    Senior Member Hicks12's Avatar
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    Re: patents

    http://www.google.com/advanced_patent_search

    Believe this works well, try that .

    PS: hope its not taken and if not, good luck!.
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  6. #5
    unapologetic apologist
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    Re: patents

    let me cut you short right there: you CANNOT patent an idea. All you can do is patent a device / something you've actually made (even if it's just the plans).
    One can never stop saying Thank You

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    Comfortably Numb directhex's Avatar
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    Re: patents

    Quote Originally Posted by fuddam View Post
    let me cut you short right there: you CANNOT patent an idea. All you can do is patent a device / something you've actually made (even if it's just the plans).
    You'd hope that were the case. But given the number of patented algorithms...

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    Moosing about! CAT-THE-FIFTH's Avatar
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    Re: patents

    There is a patent for a Moose antler ceiling fan:

    http://www.google.com/patents/about?...=0&as_maxy_is=


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    unapologetic apologist
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    Re: patents

    Quote Originally Posted by directhex View Post
    You'd hope that were the case. But given the number of patented algorithms...
    an algorithm ain't an idea. it is concrete.
    One can never stop saying Thank You

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    Re: patents

    Quote Originally Posted by directhex View Post
    You'd hope that were the case. But given the number of patented algorithms...
    Can of worms = open.

    Under UK law, you cannot patent an idea as such, and if computer code is patentable, it is because the code represents something patentable that is expressed in code, not because it is code as such. i.e. whatever the algorithm is it will only be patentable if it otherwise meets the criteria of patents, such as requiring a non-obvious innovative step, and be technical, and be capable of being made or used in industry.

    Certainly under UK law, algorithms in and of themselves are specifically excluded. To be patentable in the UK, there must be an "inventive" step, and a "technical" content. The latest defining case I'm aware of (Aerotel) reinforced the general principle that computer software is excluded from patentability (in the UK) unless certain very specific criteria are met.

    as I understand it, if you have a nail-making machine and were to develop software to control that machine so that it operated faster, it would not be patentable. If you use a phone for business and devise a way of computer-controlling that phone, it would not be patentable. If you were to devise software that implemented some truly innovative process that was not merely a faster, quicker and cheaper way of doing something you could already do, then it might be that that step added enough to be patentable, but it would be because of the innovation in the step, not merely because it was computer code.

    It is, however, as I said, a can of worms. The UK does it the way UL law is written ,and has been interpreted. That Aerotel case, for instance, went to the Court of Appeal, and upon applying for leave to appeal their ruling to the House Of Lords, the Lords denied the right. It would therefore teem, in the absence of something in a new case to convince their Lordships to change their mind (and it seems to be a principle of law that needs to be settled, not merely the facts of a given case) or of new legislation, to be pretty settled.

    Also, there is no European, let alone worldwide, agreement on all of this. There is no overseeing EU court, for instance. It's dealt with by member state's national bodies.

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    Re: patents

    Quote Originally Posted by petrefax View Post
    any idea how you'd go about checking if an idea has been patented already?
    ...
    Yes. Go to a patent specialist, and take money. Lots of it.

    Sorry, but that's about it.

    It's a very specialist area, and there is considerable scope for screwing up, so if it's worth doing, it's worth doing properly. As per my last answer, it's a can of worms.

    You can do your own searches if you want, but interpreting how something that already exists and what you have in mind may differ could be critical. It seems to be as much art as science.

    Oh, and tell nobody, and I mean NOBODY AT ALL that is not covered by a confidentiality agreement.

    Bear in mind that simple filing fees will run to a few hundred pounds, and preparing a good quality application (without which the chances of an application failing go up considerably) will probably be in the thousands. Three grand isn't atypical, but it depends on the nature of the patent. And then after 5 years, you have to pay annual fees to maintain the patent and they go up, annually, the idea being that as you develop the idea, so you profit from it. Over the life of the patent, expect to pay tens of thousands. And that's just for UK patent protection. If you want EU protection, you can add the same again. And if you want US protection, the same or more yet again. And so forth.

    In other words, think awfully carefully before spending anything, because you will be starting out on a potentially cripplingly expensive process, so unless the "idea" really does have serious £ signs attached, be very cautious.

  12. #11
    Mike Fishcake
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    Re: patents

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks12 View Post
    http://www.google.com/advanced_patent_search

    Believe this works well, try that .

    PS: hope its not taken and if not, good luck!.


    I'm going to have lots of fun now, typing in two totally unrelated words to see what it comes up with

  13. #12
    Comfortably Numb directhex's Avatar
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    Re: patents

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Fishcake View Post
    I'm going to have lots of fun now, typing in two totally unrelated words to see what it comes up with
    Your search - dingo hat - did not match any documents.


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  15. #13
    ALT0153™ Rob_B's Avatar
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    Re: patents

    Patents 1 - 10 on donkey+batter. (0.01 seconds)
    Hehe, this could be fun...


    http://www.google.com/patents?id=pky...page&q&f=false

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    Hexus.trombonist
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    Re: patents

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob_B View Post
    If you're into those sorts of inventions, might I suggest Patent Nonsense, A Catalogue of Inventions That Failed To Change the World by Clive Anderson? It's quite an entertaining romp through the weird things which people attempt to patent.

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  17. #15
    2nd hardest inthe infants petrefax's Avatar
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    Re: patents

    arse....someone's already thought of it and started producing it

    ah well, back to work for me!
    if it ain't broke...fix it till it is


  18. #16
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    Re: patents

    That being the case, what was the idea?

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