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Thread: Civil servants redundancy terms

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    G4Z
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    Civil servants redundancy terms

    Just seent his on the bbc : http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/politics/10519726.stm

    Thought I would create this thread for all of us in the private sector or self employed to vent our bowels on.

    I mean come on... capped at 15 months, 15 MONTHS!!!!

    I work for a very large blue chip company and our redundancy is considered very very cushy, the maximum you can get redundancy wise is 6 months salary. I dread to think what the current redundancy terms are if they are going to implment a cap at this level, it must be simply obscene.
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    Banhammer in peace PeterB kalniel's Avatar
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    Re: Civil servants redundancy terms

    Yay, this again. Please see previous thread

    Redundancy is part of a package, along with pension and other benefits, that you have to take into account alongside salary when choosing whether a job has sufficient remuneration for you. In the private sector it's weighted towards upfront pay, at the expense of pension and redundancy terms. In the public sectors it's weighted towards pension and redundancy terms, at the expense of up front pay. Ie, it's a choice between security or short term gain. We're all free to make that choice, and people in the public sector have been willing to put up with lower pay and inflation controlling limits on pay rise, in opposition to what was happening in the private sector, precisely because they had pension/redundancy terms. Now the govt. is seeking to renege on the contract or spirit of contract under which people took up these jobs.

    As for previous terms, they are currently capped at 3 years (at the lower rate of public sector pay, don't forget, not private sector), however most public sector bodies already agreed to a 2 year cap a few years ago.

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    Studmuffin Flibb's Avatar
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    Re: Civil servants redundancy terms

    I work as a contractor for a large pharmaceutical company, ther are people leaving here with 2 years money, enhanced pension, and a deal on the share buying scheme. I dont think there is a cap here.

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    G4Z
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    Re: Civil servants redundancy terms

    Kalneil,

    Redundancy is not a part of a package, I have never taken a job where they tell you up front what the redundancy packge will be and I would be highly suspect if they did.

    In any case I really don't think private sector pay is really any more than public when you look at comperable roles and I know pay freezes have been a fact of life in the private secort for a couple of years now and most people have performance linke pay increases rather than inflation linked ones, but even if the private sector is more highly paid how exactly does that justify nearly a year and a halfs salary for redundancy? The minimum statutory redundancy is 1 month which is exactly what many private employers will give you. Why is it that workers who could be potentially ruined in the event of job loss should subsidise the insurance for others at this kind of level?
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    Senior Member oolon's Avatar
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    Re: Civil servants redundancy terms

    I guess if you want people to take it voluntarily/go quietly you have to make it attractive. As they are thinking over a four/five year period, paying someone off for 1 year will still allow them to make savings.
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    Banhammer in peace PeterB kalniel's Avatar
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    Re: Civil servants redundancy terms

    Quote Originally Posted by G4Z View Post
    Kalneil,

    Redundancy is not a part of a package, I have never taken a job where they tell you up front what the redundancy packge will be and I would be highly suspect if they did.
    All of my jobs have told me that - it's absolutely part of the package. The only reason they'd have for hiding that would be if it was a negative aspect. Note I'm not a UK public sector worker anymore, and I was still told about this as part of my salary negotiations in my current job.

    In any case I really don't think private sector pay is really any more than public when you look at comperable roles and I know pay freezes have been a fact of life in the private secort for a couple of years now and most people have performance linke pay increases rather than inflation linked ones, but even if the private sector is more highly paid how exactly does that justify nearly a year and a halfs salary for redundancy?
    Quite simple - you take the lower pay knowing that you have job security - and if there is some strange reason for you to lose your job that isn't your fault then you at least know you will be able to continue paying the mortgage or whatever. If you don't have job security then you need more money upfront so you can put it away for a rainy day. It's just two ways of doing exactly the same thing.

    Why is it that workers who could be potentially ruined in the event of job loss should subsidise the insurance for others at this kind of level?
    Private sector workers aren't paying any more for this. It's already paid for by the savings in public sector pay compared to private sector.

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    Seething Cauldron of Hatred TheAnimus's Avatar
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    Re: Civil servants redundancy terms

    erm simple solution, if the public sector offers such better conditions after this has been removed, why don't people change over?
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    Banhammer in peace PeterB kalniel's Avatar
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    Re: Civil servants redundancy terms

    Quote Originally Posted by TheAnimus View Post
    erm simple solution, if the public sector offers such better conditions after this has been removed, why don't people change over?
    You mean private sector?

    If so then the vice versa applies as well - if people are annoyed about/jealous of public sector conditions why don't they change?

    I don't think it's wrong that equivalently skilled positions should be of roughly equal remuneration between private and public sectors. However I think it would be wrong if the opposite were to occur and public sector became a very obviously a second tier area to work in. The economic success of this country owes much to upstream research for example, which by it's very nature will never be carried out by a private company.

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    Re: Civil servants redundancy terms

    So, the minimum for the private sector will be set at 1 month, but for the public sector, 15 months...

    One rule for us, another for them, eh. Big surprise. I really hope the new, rather more ballsy government will start chopping some serious public deadwood ASAP!

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    Re: Civil servants redundancy terms

    Quote Originally Posted by Kata View Post
    So, the minimum for the private sector will be set at 1 month, but for the public sector, 15 months...

    One rule for us, another for them, eh. Big surprise. I really hope the new, rather more ballsy government will start chopping some serious public deadwood ASAP!
    Errr no, totally the opposit. Max public sector is 15 months, there is no max for private sector.

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    Banhammer in peace PeterB kalniel's Avatar
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    Re: Civil servants redundancy terms

    Quote Originally Posted by Kata View Post
    So, the minimum for the private sector will be set at 1 month, but for the public sector, 15 months...
    You're mixing minimums and maximums... never a good thing!

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    Re: Civil servants redundancy terms

    Before this thread goes off on one, it's as well to remember why these changes are proposed: an economic crisis with greed and mismanagement at its root. Public sector employees aren't the ones responsible for the mess, they are just a soft target. Also remember that as the cuts begin to bite in the public sector, the private sector will be affected too so effectively we're all in this together.

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    Re: Civil servants redundancy terms

    Quote Originally Posted by santa claus View Post
    Before this thread goes off on one, it's as well to remember why these changes are proposed: an economic crisis with greed and mismanagement at its root. Public sector employees aren't the ones responsible for the mess, they are just a soft target. Also remember that as the cuts begin to bite in the public sector, the private sector will be affected too so effectively we're all in this together.
    Pray, who are the ones responsible?
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    The late but legendary peterb - Onward and Upward peterb's Avatar
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    Re: Civil servants redundancy terms

    Quote Originally Posted by TheAnimus View Post
    Pray, who are the ones responsible?
    I 'm sure Santa awas referring to the employed civil servants and other functionaries of the public sector, rather than the elected public servants who in the past seemed to forget that they were elected to serve the electorate, and saw the whole political landscape as a trough for sticking their noses in, while thos in Government were being profligate with Government money to ensure that they were relected. The same people by the way that are responsible for such an enlargment in the public sector, and partly funded that by tax raids on the pension funds on the private sector.

    So while I ghave a small amount of sympathy for G4Z's comments - they are misdirected - the question is not "Why are the public sector getting so much" as much as "Why is the private sector getting so little?"
    Last edited by peterb; 07-07-2010 at 07:49 PM. Reason: Correct an error
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    Re: Civil servants redundancy terms

    Quote Originally Posted by peterb View Post
    So while I ghave a small amount of sympathy for G4Z's comments - they are misdirected - the question is not "Why are the private sector getting so much" as much as "Why is the privatte sector getting so little?"
    QFT.

    I actually think that 15 months is pretty stingy - remember that is a *maximum* and its not what everyone will get..you have to have worked in a civil service role for at least 20 years to get that amount, and to be honest I think that if you have pretty much given your working life to a company (in this case, the "company" is the government) then if they cut your employment short at what will be a difficult time to get another job (people reaching the cap will likely be in theirs 50s, to make it even worse) you should be compensated accordingly.

    There /are/ private sector schemes which offer similar/better deals but it depends on the sector you are in and your individual company..with my job its 1 months pay per years service after 3 years, with a maximum of 20 years eligible which works out as 20 months pay if I were to stay here for 23 years without changing my contract (not going to happen but its nice to know).

    I know that lots of private sector companies are much more stingy about this kind of thing..but I think its largely as they can get away with it - so few people will go through their contracts and look at all the "what if's", probably because a) in the private sector people tend to move employers these days so long term redundancy plans are not relevant and b) especially at the moment people are just happy to have a job.

    If all the governments arguments around savings are accurate (and I am not for one moment suggesting that they all are) then the long term savings will outweigh these redundancy payments anyway, so it becomes a non issue in the grand scheme of things imo.

    There are much better things to get worked up about such as the sheer number of benefit cheats (anyone who could cope without their benefit) and lazy people who don't want to work..they are the biggest drain on our society and cleaning up the benefits system back to what it was originally intended to do would save much more money...

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